Jays Acquire Harold Ramirez, Reese McGuire, Francisco Liriano for Hutch

[admin]

I didn't ignore anything. It was simply vapid and boring, and warranted no response.

 

Then don't reply to the post?

[admin]

3.5 xFIP as RP

 

That's not bad, thanks.

[Laika]

Then don't reply to the post?

 

no?

[admin]

Then don't reply to the post?

 

Okay, then keep reading only parts of a post and arguing points that have been addressed, makes sense.

Sorry for not thinking this mediocre move was 'incredible'.

[Grant77]

Feldman's 4.22 FIP. Benoit has looked good, but he's the same as the rest, guys having poor years hoping they can turn them around. Some will work out, some won't. How many games do they blow before you decide one didn't work out?

 

All signs suggest that Feldman is a great contact manager, but I won't fight you on it. The front office believes that he is having a legit good year. I don't think they were looking for a diamond in the rough.

 

I guess I like the Benoit trade in part because it adds depth. Now we have a couple of palatable options in AAA if something goes wrong.

 

I'm certainly not going to argue that these are great trades, but none of them are bad in my opinion.

[Laika]

Sorry for not thinking this move was 'incredible'.

 

Apology accepted.

 

You're having a bad season of posts but I'm confident you'll be better down the stretch.

[King]

Okay, then keep reading only parts of a post and arguing points that have been addressed, makes sense.

Sorry for not thinking this mediocre move was 'incredible'.

Did you just forget to change accounts?

[admin]

Apology accepted.

 

You're having a bad season of posts but I'm confident you'll be better down the stretch.

 

Me saying Sanchez was good while you continuously said he was bad should make up for any 'bad posts' I have.

I'm just having flashbacks of AA's beginning here, and it's like de ja vu.

[Laika]

Me saying Sanchez was good while you continuously said he was bad should make up for any 'bad posts' I have.

I'm just having flashbacks of AA's beginning here, and it's like de ja vu.

 

AA was really good before he went off the rails. It is what it was.

[Terminator]

And got rid of Hutch. We're in contention and all we've done all year is acquire guy on terrible years. No realy upgrade to this roster for the playoffs. This team, probably the best team we will have, assuming Jose and/or EE leave. And everyone says "Amazing". Morales luckily didn't stick around too long, but partially cost us a game in his one appearance. I'm a Liriano fan but he's been terrible. If we were a middle of the pack team, sure it would be nice to give him a chance. But we're a contending team, not a team looking for gems as we race for first place. How big of a leash do you give him? How big of a leash do you give Feldman? How many games do you let them blow before you say 'Okay, maybe our magic touch won't work on them?'

 

$17M for two okay prospects. I'd rather put that towards international prospects who could be elite.

 

Lol this is a pretty solid rant and it's got some pretty good points.

[thatoneguy]

And got rid of Hutch. We're in contention and all we've done all year is acquire guy on terrible years. No realy upgrade to this roster for the playoffs. This team, probably the best team we will have, assuming Jose and/or EE leave. And everyone says "Amazing". Morales luckily didn't stick around too long, but partially cost us a game in his one appearance. I'm a Liriano fan but he's been terrible. If we were a middle of the pack team, sure it would be nice to give him a chance. But we're a contending team, not a team looking for gems as we race for first place. How big of a leash do you give him? How big of a leash do you give Feldman? How many games do you let them blow before you say 'Okay, maybe our magic touch won't work on them?'

 

$17M for two okay prospects. I'd rather put that towards international prospects who could be elite.

 

Who would you go after then otherwise? Offer something other than just a plead for nothing. Would you have preferred we did nothing?

 

Top 100 prospects are suddenly "okay" prospects. That's news to me.

[Grant77]

Who would you go after then otherwise? Offer something other than just a plead for nothing. Would you have preferred we did nothing?

 

Top 100 prospects are suddenly "okay" prospects. That's news to me.

 

They are good prospects, don't get me wrong, but you won't find them on many updated top 100 lists. They both realistically slot into the 6-8 range in our system for now.

[Terminator]

I think his argument is that we didn't add a whole lot and Hutch and 17 million is what we gave up. That could be true but look at the prices for players acquired this year. The prices were kind of crazy.

 

Would you rather have Upton (5 mil for a season and a half) for nothing or Beltran for (5 mil for half a season) and give up your #2 prospect (according to fangraphs)?

 

The Liriano trade is really tricky to evaluate but he hasn't lost his velocity, projects better than Hutch and we get two Top 100 prospects. Those two guys are definitely in our Top 10. Yeah we take on about 15 mil in added salary but it's probably worth it and if Liriano turns it around it's definitely worth it. Especially if being #1 in attendance leads to a larger budget.

 

Admin (he's Juiced right?) is probably right in that calling these moves "amazing" might be overkill but I think they were some pretty nifty trades that helped us out for this year and next year and other than the payroll commitment and Hutch is may be a AAAA player anyway we didn't lose much. If we truly would have made major upgrades the already weak farm would have been completely decimated.

[Dr. Dinger]

Wow, Reese McGuire too? He's better than Josh Thole right now. I'm actually loving this deal. The Pirates must have been pretty desperate to shed Liriano's salary two give up two potentially average major league regulars on top of him.

[Frenchsoup]

Pirates must think Liriano is dead money

[Angrioter]

Pirates must think Liriano is dead money

and the Pirates knows well about pitching. I'm so f***ing scared

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Who would you go after then otherwise? Offer something other than just a plead for nothing. Would you have preferred we did nothing?

 

Top 100 prospects are suddenly "okay" prospects. That's news to me.

 

Better be Careful using that kind of Logic around here or Ranting like the Admin just did on here.

That kind of talk will get you banned by the Mod's on here!!!

But feel free to call people Dumn, be little free thinking or thought and offer nothing to conversations and you to my friend can be a respected member of the hive!!! Lol

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

As for the Trades call em Bad or Call em Good, really it's really just a crap shot at this point and nobody knows for sure.

 

Time takes a cigarette, puts it in your hand. Tugs on finger, another finger... Cigarette !!!

 

Only Time will tell, all we as Fans can do is pray for the Best!!!

 

Go Jays Go.... Let's play Ball !!!

[pickoff22]

I think his argument is that we didn't add a whole lot and Hutch and 17 million is what we gave up. That could be true but look at the prices for players acquired this year. The prices were kind of crazy.

 

Would you rather have Upton (5 mil for a season and a half) for nothing or Beltran for (5 mil for half a season) and give up your #2 prospect (according to fangraphs)?

 

The Liriano trade is really tricky to evaluate but he hasn't lost his velocity, projects better than Hutch and we get two Top 100 prospects. Those two guys are definitely in our Top 10. Yeah we take on about 15 mil in added salary but it's probably worth it and if Liriano turns it around it's definitely worth it. Especially if being #1 in attendance leads to a larger budget.

 

Admin (he's Juiced right?) is probably right in that calling these moves "amazing" might be overkill but I think they were some pretty nifty trades that helped us out for this year and next year and other than the payroll commitment and Hutch is may be a AAAA player anyway we didn't lose much. If we truly would have made major upgrades the already weak farm would have been completely decimated.

 

It's actually less than 15 million as you have to include what Hutch earns next year.

 

I don't think this trade is all that exciting other than it's creative. The fact we increased our prospect capital in the way we did was unexpected and frankly our system could use it. I very much like the trade, but I understand why it's not exciting when you look at making this years team better.

 

Fact is they would have moved Sanchez to the pen no matter what. That's an arm that's almost impossible to replace so we were gonna get worse no matter what available starter we traded for. So we're relying on Liriano bouncing back, which is certainly possible as he has a large body of work with success, but obviously we can't assume he will.

 

None of the trades made by Shaptkins have been all that exciting but he was dealt a fairly poor hand in terms of the trade bait he had to work with. At least the trades he made make sense based on where we're at, we just need to hope Upton plays well (and actually gets to play, Smoak is not doing this team any favours) and that Liriano falls somewhere in between what he's been this year and last year.

[Krylian]

and the Pirates knows well about pitching. I'm so f***ing scared

 

They also didn't resign Happ so they don't know everything.

[Frenchsoup]

It's actually less than 15 million as you have to include what Hutch earns next year.

 

I don't think this trade is all that exciting other than it's creative. The fact we increased our prospect capital in the way we did was unexpected and frankly our system could use it. I very much like the trade, but I understand why it's not exciting when you look at making this years team better.

 

Fact is they would have moved Sanchez to the pen no matter what. That's an arm that's almost impossible to replace so we were gonna get worse no matter what available starter we traded for. So we're relying on Liriano bouncing back, which is certainly possible as he has a large body of work with success, but obviously we can't assume he will.

 

None of the trades made by Shaptkins have been all that exciting but he was dealt a fairly poor hand in terms of the trade bait he had to work with. At least the trades he made make sense based on where we're at, we just need to hope Upton plays well (and actually gets to play, Smoak is not doing this team any favours) and that Liriano falls somewhere in between what he's been this year and last year.

 

Tellez, Reid Foley, Jon Harris could have all reached their peak value. They could have gotten a pretty good talent for all those guys.

[HERPDERP]

and the Pirates knows well about pitching. I'm so f***ing scared

 

Eh, look at Grilli's walk numbers with Atlanta and now with us. Changed completely. Martin magic.

[pickoff22]

Tellez, Reid Foley, Jon Harris could have all reached their peak value. They could have gotten a pretty good talent for all those guys.

 

You likely could have found a way to get Hellickson or Santana. Certainly wouldn't have gotten an elite arm like Sale. Further depleting our prospect capital really didn't make sense based on the starters that were available especially when you compare those scenarios to what they did. They found a way to increase our prospect capital while adding an arm who has been better than Hellickson or Santana for much of his career and are gonna hope he can find it.

[LGBJ29]

Feldman's 4.22 FIP. Benoit has looked good, but he's the same as the rest, guys having poor years hoping they can turn them around. Some will work out, some won't. How many games do they blow before you decide one didn't work out?

 

Feldman has one of the lowest hard contact rates in baseball, with a very sold xFIP. He's a solid pick up and we gave up next to nothing. Same with Benoit. Essentially all of our moves have some sort of gamble to them, but they are all low risk high reward. It seems as though you would have preferred giving up top prospects (the few we have to work with) for mild MLB upgrades. Considering how expensive the market was, and how some teams extremely overpaid, Shatkins did a great job of finding ways to improve the club (both now and in the future) without overspending. This deadline wasn't flashy or sexy, but neither was the market.

[Dr. Dinger]

Feldman has one of the lowest hard contact rates in baseball, with a very sold xFIP. He's a solid pick up and we gave up next to nothing. Same with Benoit. Essentially all of our moves have some sort of gamble to them, but they are all low risk high reward.

 

I don't mind the Feldman and Benoit pick ups, but it's a real stretch to try and paint them as high reward acquisitions.

[Governator]

I don't mind the Feldman and Benoit pick ups, but it's a real stretch to try and paint them as high reward acquisitions.

 

We reap rewards by not having Storen & Chavez in our BP.

[Brownie19]

I don't mind the Feldman and Benoit pick ups, but it's a real stretch to try and paint them as high reward acquisitions.

 

I think Benoit is similar to Grilli - and he's been a high reward acquisition. I don't expect a lot from Feldman.

[Dr. Dinger]

I think Benoit is similar to Grilli - and he's been a high reward acquisition. I don't expect a lot from Feldman.

 

19 good innings is not a high reward acquisition. We are literally talking about 0.3 WAR. You are vastly overrating the contributions of middle relievers IMO.

[Governator]

19 good innings is not a high reward acquisition. We are literally talking about 0.3 WAR. You are vastly overrating the contributions of middle relievers IMO.

 

It's obviously a potential high reward within the context of middle relievers. Also since the trade:

 

Benoit: 4.0 IP 0ER

Storen: 2.1 IP 4ER

 

So far, so good.

[Dr. Dinger]

It's obviously a potential high reward within the context of middle relievers. Also since the trade:

 

Benoit: 4.0 IP 0ER

Storen: 2.1 IP 4ER

 

So far, so good.

 

You and I have very different definitions of high reward.