Jays Acquire Harold Ramirez, Reese McGuire, Francisco Liriano for Hutch

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Pretty slim chance he continues to perform at the level he has for the Jays. One win is nice, it's not a huge reward by any means.

 

A one win upgrade is and could be the Difference between 1st and 2nd place in the A.L.E, huge!!!

 

A one win upgrade make get you into the World Series, Huge!

 

A one Win upgrade could make you World Series Champs!!!

 

Things one win can do, bought to you by BBBB and the letter B.... Cause 5 B's beat 4.... Lol

 

P.s THAT'S SOME A SPICEY HIGH REWARDS!!!!

[Governator]

No comment on his BABIP being 60 points below league average or his stand rate being 20% higher than league average? He's rather obviously due for some regression, but if you want to believe in a 19 IP sample, go right ahead.

 

 

Thing is, he can still regress and be more reliable than 6 other guys in the pen. The fact that we've already reaped some rewards from him is a plus.

[Cyborg]

Lol... Career high 13.7 K/9 at age 39, .235 BABIP, 95% strand rate, for starters

 

Does have a career high SwStr here which does point to the Ks being legit.

[Dr. Dinger]

Does have a career high SwStr here which does point to the Ks being legit.

 

And his stint with the Braves this year was career low. Both samples are too small to draw meaningful conclusions.

[Cyborg]

Oh boy.

[Angrioter]

‏@BrinkPG

Neal Huntington, asked about moving Liriano salary: "Our goal in trading Ramirez and McGuire was to acquire Drew Hutchison."

 

 

[Grant77]

Oh boy.

 

Lots of dumn fans think that. Nothing new here.

[Laika]

Liriano turning back into a legit SP2 would be a high reward. Grilli is a very modest reward.

 

If Grilli gets results like 2012, 2013, 2015 in high leverage playoff race / playoff innings, then it's certainly a high-reward outcome. The leverage index would be off the charts!

 

I think you see this type of evaluation in the current RP markets. Guys like Will Smith and Ken Giles get traded for elite prospect packages these days because GMs have some type of information about the value of elite relief pitching, in playoff contexts.

[Sammy225]

Is it unrealistic to think that Mcguire could be backing up Martin next season?

[Dr. Dinger]

Is it unrealistic to think that Mcguire could be backing up Martin next season?

 

I think that's very realistic. He could probably go to the majors right now and be a 60-70 wRC+ hitter with plus defense. He's going to be an ideal backup, IMO.

[Jimcanuck]

I think that's very realistic. He could probably go to the majors right now and be a 60-70 wRC+ hitter with plus defense. He's going to be an ideal backup, IMO.

 

The fangraphs writeup indicates his defense is still a work in progress. Footwork, blocking, and transfer all need work. Receiving and game calling average or above.

[Grant77]

Is it unrealistic to think that Mcguire could be backing up Martin next season?

 

I think so, at least in April. We don't need to rush him. Age is on his side and more development would clearly help.

[Dr. Dinger]

The fangraphs writeup indicates his defense is still a work in progress. Footwork, blocking, and transfer all need work. Receiving and game calling average or above.

 

Our backup catcher is defensive disaster who can't even wRC+ his age. It really doesn't get any worse than Thole.

[Jimcanuck]

Our backup catcher is defensive disaster who can't even wRC+ his age. It really doesn't get any worse than Thole.

 

Oh I agree. Just pointing out that McGuire D is probably not as you indicated at this stage of his development.

[Sammy225]

The fangraphs writeup indicates his defense is still a work in progress. Footwork, blocking, and transfer all need work. Receiving and game calling average or above.

 

Then being behind Martin might be a damn good thing for him to start his career.

[Grant77]

Our backup catcher is defensive disaster who can't even wRC+ his age. It really doesn't get any worse than Thole.

 

Updated 7-16-16

 

Catchers

 

Alex Avila (30)

Drew Butera (34)

Jason Castro (30)

A.J. Ellis (36)

Ryan Hanigan (36) — $3.75MM club option with an $800K buyout

Nick Hundley (33)

Chris Iannetta (34) — $4.25MM club/vesting option

Jonathan Lucroy (31) — $5.25MM club option with a $25K buyout

Jeff Mathis (34)

Dioner Navarro (33)

A.J. Pierzynski (40)

Wilson Ramos (29)

Carlos Ruiz (38) — $4.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Jarrod Saltalamacchia (32)

Geovany Soto (34)

Kurt Suzuki (33) — $6MM vesting option

Josh Thole (30)

Matt Wieters (31)

[Dr. Dinger]

Oh I agree. Just pointing out that McGuire D is probably not as you indicated at this stage of his development.

 

Not sure where you're getting that from. BP put a 70 on his glove and 65 on his arm, MLB.com says 60 and 60. All accounts I've read say that his defense is outstanding and will make him a slam dunk major leaguer, even if the bat is never league average.

[burlingtonbandit]

FG had McGuire and Ramirez as 40FV prospects FWIW. Certainly not as high as MLB.com.

[Dr. Dinger]

FG had McGuire and Ramirez as 40FV prospects FWIW. Certainly not as high as MLB.com.

 

BP and MLB have him as a 50, which is about right. An elite defender at catcher is a league average player even when the bat is weak.

[Dr. Dinger]

Updated 7-16-16

 

Catchers

 

Alex Avila (30)

Drew Butera (34)

Jason Castro (30)

A.J. Ellis (36)

Ryan Hanigan (36) — $3.75MM club option with an $800K buyout

Nick Hundley (33)

Chris Iannetta (34) — $4.25MM club/vesting option

Jonathan Lucroy (31) — $5.25MM club option with a $25K buyout

Jeff Mathis (34)

Dioner Navarro (33)

A.J. Pierzynski (40)

Wilson Ramos (29)

Carlos Ruiz (38) — $4.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Jarrod Saltalamacchia (32)

Geovany Soto (34)

Kurt Suzuki (33) — $6MM vesting option

Josh Thole (30)

Matt Wieters (31)

 

Most of those guys aren't feasible backup options, at least the good ones. We could get someone like Suzuki or Avila, but I'd rather not spend ~$4M on that when McGuire is already a cromulent backup catcher.

[Jimcanuck]

Not sure where you're getting that from. BP put a 70 on his glove and 65 on his arm, MLB.com says 60 and 60. All accounts I've read say that his defense is outstanding and will make him a slam dunk major leaguer, even if the bat is never league average.

 

This was posted earlier. Thought it indicated below average blocking, actually refers to it as average.

 

No doubt, better than Thole, although it would be better for him to continue to develop hitting skills in MiLB for another year or so instead of flailing away at MLB level.

 

**********************

 

I was pleasantly surprised with the Reese McGuire that showed up in the Arizona Fall League; he finally showed some potential to use his plus bat speed to drive the ball with some authority instead of just making contact. It wasn’t just the numbers where he showed improvement either; his swing looked like it was meant to be doing some damage. He still has work to do on both his offense and defense, but the changes this fall were encouraging enough to project him closer to his offensive ceiling than I would have admitted at this time last year.

 

Prior to the fall, McGuire had the same bat speed and loose, athletic swing, but his swing plane was geared for low line drives and ground balls. To that end, he had delivered through the regular season last year, with few swings and misses but not much to show for it. His path in the fall looked good enough to tap into his above-average raw power given enough time to develop, making him a much more interesting prospect than the good-glove, questionable-hitting catcher he looked like before.

 

He has plus arm strength out of the crouch, but below-average footwork and transfers pull his current arm grade down to average. He gets great reviews for calling a game behind the plate, and present above-average receiving and average blocking ability give him plenty of skills to be a valuable backstop. Team sources swear by his receiving work as a whole, so I’m trusting their judgment by bumping his future grades up. With the emphasis the Pirates have placed on his defense, it’s reasonable to see future gains made in all his defensive tools, giving him upside as a true plus defender. His improved hitting forecast makes the total package look like an above-average regular at minimum.

 

Hit: 35/50/55 Power: 35/45/50+ Run: 45/40/45 Field: 55/60/60+ Throw: 50/55/60

Overall: 35/55-60/65

[Grant77]

Most of those guys aren't feasible backup options, at least the good ones. We could get someone like Suzuki or Avila, but I'd rather not spend ~$4M on that when McGuire is already a cromulent backup catcher.

 

If you're trying to show off your vocabulary, made up words from a cartoon probably aren't your best route.

 

I believe that McGuire can be a starting catcher if he is developed properly. That certainly means giving him the appropriate amount of time in the minors.

 

If that means spending 4 million on Alex Avila then I think it's worth it.

[Dr. Dinger]

This was posted earlier. Thought it indicated below average blocking, actually refers to it as average.

 

No doubt, better than Thole, although it would be better for him to continue to develop hitting skills in MiLB for another year or so instead of flailing away at MLB level.

 

**********************

 

I was pleasantly surprised with the Reese McGuire that showed up in the Arizona Fall League; he finally showed some potential to use his plus bat speed to drive the ball with some authority instead of just making contact. It wasn’t just the numbers where he showed improvement either; his swing looked like it was meant to be doing some damage. He still has work to do on both his offense and defense, but the changes this fall were encouraging enough to project him closer to his offensive ceiling than I would have admitted at this time last year.

 

Prior to the fall, McGuire had the same bat speed and loose, athletic swing, but his swing plane was geared for low line drives and ground balls. To that end, he had delivered through the regular season last year, with few swings and misses but not much to show for it. His path in the fall looked good enough to tap into his above-average raw power given enough time to develop, making him a much more interesting prospect than the good-glove, questionable-hitting catcher he looked like before.

 

He has plus arm strength out of the crouch, but below-average footwork and transfers pull his current arm grade down to average. He gets great reviews for calling a game behind the plate, and present above-average receiving and average blocking ability give him plenty of skills to be a valuable backstop. Team sources swear by his receiving work as a whole, so I’m trusting their judgment by bumping his future grades up. With the emphasis the Pirates have placed on his defense, it’s reasonable to see future gains made in all his defensive tools, giving him upside as a true plus defender. His improved hitting forecast makes the total package look like an above-average regular at minimum.

 

Hit: 35/50/55 Power: 35/45/50+ Run: 45/40/45 Field: 55/60/60+ Throw: 50/55/60

Overall: 35/55-60/65

 

 

Here's the latest from BP

 

July 21 - Reese McGuire, C, Pirates (Double-A Altoona): 3-3, 2 R, 2B, 3B, RBI, K. As if the Pirates need more talented young players, McGuire has begun to realize some of the promise that made him such a highly ranked player—namely the bat is beginning to catch up to the glove. It may still take until 2018 before McGuire is ready to help in the big leagues, but he’s starting to look more and more like a really good everyday catcher.

 

July 26 - Reese McGuire, C, Pirates (Double-A Altoona): 4-5, 3 R, 3B, RBI. McGuire is putting together a nice season for the Pirates, cementing himself as one of the up and coming catching prospects in baseball. The best part, he hasn’t lost anything with the glove as his bat has started to come alive.

[Grant77]

Here's the latest from BP

 

July 21 - Reese McGuire, C, Pirates (Double-A Altoona): 3-3, 2 R, 2B, 3B, RBI, K. As if the Pirates need more talented young players, McGuire has begun to realize some of the promise that made him such a highly ranked player—namely the bat is beginning to catch up to the glove. It may still take until 2018 before McGuire is ready to help in the big leagues, but he’s starting to look more and more like a really good everyday catcher.

 

July 26 - Reese McGuire, C, Pirates (Double-A Altoona): 4-5, 3 R, 3B, RBI. McGuire is putting together a nice season for the Pirates, cementing himself as one of the up and coming catching prospects in baseball. The best part, he hasn’t lost anything with the glove as his bat has started to come alive.

 

I agree

[Jimcanuck]

Let's just agree to be happy Thole is gonna be gone.

[Dr. Dinger]

If you're trying to show off your vocabulary, made up words from a cartoon probably aren't your best route.

 

Why would you think a Simpsons reference would be an attempt to show off my vocabulary? It's an attempt at humour.

 

Ohhhh right, Asperger's.

[Laika]

I actually think a reserve role in the big leagues could be a pretty good way of developing a catching prospect. It lets them work with the big boy pitching staff, get their feet wet, see somewhat regular playing time.

 

It's not like other bench roles. Not at all.

[pickoff22]

Not sure the Jays would want him acting as a backup in 2017 as opposed to getting regular work in the minors. There's a good change that they would see more value in continuing his development as opposed to using him in a backup role in the bigs.

[Grant77]

Why would you think a Simpsons reference would be an attempt to show off my vocabulary? It's an attempt at humour.

 

Ohhhh right, Asperger's.

 

A failed attempt on both counts.

[Grant77]

I actually think a reserve role in the big leagues could be a pretty good way of developing a catching prospect. It lets them work with the big boy pitching staff, get their feet wet, see somewhat regular playing time.

 

It's not like other bench roles. Not at all.

 

That may be true for his defense, but it significantly reduces the chance that we unlock the full potential in his bat in my opinion.