Sanchez Projection March 2016

[burlingtonbandit]

I'm interested to see if Sanchez could go to Buffalo. He mentioned the goal is to make the team as good as possible in 2016 so that would mean Sanchez in the bullpen but he's also mentioned how development is really only done in the minors since its incredibly difficult in the majors.

[THANOS]

Well, hopefully that means Shapiro sends Sanchez down to AAA with the instructions to develop his secondary pitches, and obtain a strikeout pitch, before he's called up again.

[BTS]

Well, hopefully that means Shapiro sends Sanchez down to AAA with the instructions to develop his secondary pitches, and obtain a strikeout pitch, before he's called up again.

 

He's been working on developing secondary pitches with professional coaches since he was drafted almost 6 years ago, and still hasn't found a usable pitch. This narrative of him spending 3 months in AAA and discovering a wipeout changeup is silly. Just let him blow people away with that filthy fastball in high leverage relief innings.

[THANOS]

He's been working on developing secondary pitches with professional coaches since he was drafted almost 6 years ago, and still hasn't found a usable pitch. This narrative of him spending 3 months in AAA and discovering a wipeout changeup is silly. Just let him blow people away with that filthy fastball in high leverage relief innings.

 

Well, Shapiro/Atkins have also brought in plenty of new additions to the player development side, and, if they represent anything similar to their philosophies in Cleveland, it's possible that Sanchez won't be taught to "pitch to contact" anymore. There's no way to know for sure, if it would even work with Sanchez, but there's at least some merit to the attempt.

[Angrioter]

He's been working on developing secondary pitches with professional coaches since he was drafted almost 6 years ago, and still hasn't found a usable pitch. This narrative of him spending 3 months in AAA and discovering a wipeout changeup is silly. Just let him blow people away with that filthy fastball in high leverage relief innings.

 

This sounds like a RPG game. You go to a dungeon to learn/get a new magic or skill to then, fight the final boss in a giant castle.

 

This isnt' Final Fantasy, this is MLB.

[burlingtonbandit]

Well, Shapiro/Atkins have also brought in plenty of new additions to the player development side, and, if they represent anything similar to their philosophies in Cleveland, it's possible that Sanchez won't be taught to "pitch to contact" anymore. There's no way to know for sure, if it would even work with Sanchez, but there's at least some merit to the attempt.

 

Did they hire any coaches in the minor leagues? Its not like Eric Wedge is going to tell Sanchez to strike people out and all of a sudden he starts striking more guys out. As far as I know its the same Blue Jays coaches in the minors.

[glory]

Shapiro is awesome.

 

I don't mind Sanchez in AAA on a long shot that he develops something reasonably close to a swing and miss pitch, but if the goal is to make the 2016 team as good as possible, then he should be in the pen. Then if a need arises mid season you can put him in the rotation in that scenario (although he should be behind Floyd, Chavez, and Hutch on the depth chart).

[Brownie19]

Did they hire any coaches in the minor leagues? Its not like Eric Wedge is going to tell Sanchez to strike people out and all of a sudden he starts striking more guys out. As far as I know its the same Blue Jays coaches in the minors.

 

I get this - but I also see what THANOS is saying. It is a new regime which may be preaching different approaches and strategies. I'd love to hear the new hires have exposed Sanchez to spin rates and the coaching staff is now working with him on grips/release points to increase the spin on his cutter/curve and to decrease it on his changeup.

 

I've been preaching how Sanchez has been working on this crap for 6 years now and still can't throw a secondary pitch worth a crap - but I still hold out hope that a team of coaches with a new approach will be able to help him. Heck - the pitching coach in Pittsburgh made JA Happ a world beater in a matter of weeks!

[Sammy225]

Sanchez and Hutch in AAA rotation. Yes, please. One will become good and we save $50M down the line. Shapiro's education is paying off, what a genius.

 

Biagini/Soriano will handle the 6th inning.

 

PLease read other thread. Thanks!

[Brownie19]

He can still handle the 6th inning in a rocking chair.

 

PS3 controller...

[burlingtonbandit]

I get this - but I also see what THANOS is saying. It is a new regime which may be preaching different approaches and strategies. I'd love to hear the new hires have exposed Sanchez to spin rates and the coaching staff is now working with him on grips/release points to increase the spin on his cutter/curve and to decrease it on his changeup.

 

I've been preaching how Sanchez has been working on this crap for 6 years now and still can't throw a secondary pitch worth a crap - but I still hold out hope that a team of coaches with a new approach will be able to help him. Heck - the pitching coach in Pittsburgh made JA Happ a world beater in a matter of weeks!

 

I know what you are saying I just think you are putting too much stock into a hiring of a President/GM that won't be working with Sanchez directly. It certainly has an effect on the players coming into the organization but in the first 2 months? His curveball is an average pitch and has certainly improve over the last few years. Its not like he's a crap pitcher right now lol.

[Angrioter]

Sanchez and Hutch in AAA rotation. Yes, please. One will become good and we save $50M down the line. Shapiro's education is paying off, what a genius.

 

Sanchez has little starting experience above A ball. Obviously he's s***.

 

Biagini/Soriano will handle the 6th inning.

 

In troglodyte language: Por favor, lee otro hilo sobre Soriano.

 

You suxx brother

[Angrioter]

Gregor Chisholm ‏

Sanchez said main goal for today was decreasing velocity on his changeup. Felt he got it under 90 mph, which was a positive step. #BlueJays

 

No bueno lol

[Angrioter]

Gregor Chisholm

Sanchez: "We understand if Gavin does get the job, so be it, I'll go down and do what I need to do to make this team better." #BlueJays

[Brownie19]

I know what you are saying I just think you are putting too much stock into a hiring of a President/GM that won't be working with Sanchez directly. It certainly has an effect on the players coming into the organization but in the first 2 months? His curveball is an average pitch and has certainly improve over the last few years. Its not like he's a crap pitcher right now lol.

 

Actually, as a starting pitcher, there's a very good chance he's a crap pitcher right now.

[glory]

"I'll go down..."

 

Maybe he's already been told that the minors are an alternative if he doesn't win a rotation spot.

[burlingtonbandit]

Actually, as a starting pitcher, there's a very good chance he's a crap pitcher right now.

 

Well it depends on if he can continue with the command he has showed in Spring. People talk about the secondary pitches a lot but I think the command is what is going to be the biggest factor if he can be an effective SP going forward.

[Brownie19]

I know what you are saying I just think you are putting too much stock into a hiring of a President/GM that won't be working with Sanchez directly. It certainly has an effect on the players coming into the organization but in the first 2 months? His curveball is an average pitch and has certainly improve over the last few years. Its not like he's a crap pitcher right now lol.

 

If I'm Shapiro - I'm directing my team of coaches to analyze the spin rates (err whatever they think is holding him back) for Sanchez and I'm seting up my experts to work with Sanchez to see if they can modify his grip or release point in an effort to make tangible differences to his secondary offerings. I'd ask for a report at the end of the spring on what they've discovered, complete with a recommendation on whether this is worthwhile (and in which case if it needs to be continued in AAA) - or whether this is a waste of time and it's time to plunk him in the bullpen and accept what you have.

 

That's what a leader would do (IMO). He doesn't just say "oh well, I'm up here at the top - how am I expected to have any impact on an individual player". Sanchez is a young, talented, valuable asset right now. I expect the leader of this organization to do everything in his power to ensure they've tried everything they can to maximize his value. I'm not going to this extreme with Tony Sanchez's swing - but you're sure as s*** I would with Sanchez's arm.

[93 Jays]

Actually, as a starting pitcher, there's a very good chance he's a crap pitcher right now.

 

That's horseshit. Sanchez deserves a sot to at least be a late innings bullpen guy if anything and his numbers speaks for themselves in that regard. As a starter, I don't get the ******** that he NEEDS a strikeout pitch....when what he needs to do, and ALL he needs to do is to keep his walk rate per 9 way down and he will be just fine. Anybody who thinks Floyd or Happ is a better option than Sanchez in our rotation right now needs to put down the crackpipe, forget his password and back away from the messageboards. Sanchez has two higher than average fastballs and curveball and if he uses those pitches correctly, he can easily win 15-17 games every single season in this league. His numbers thus far this spring dictate he's figured something out and sending him down at this point makes no sense when his value as a late innings guy is just as high as anyone on this team.

[burlingtonbandit]

If I'm Shapiro - I'm directing my team of coaches to analyze the spin rates (err whatever they think is holding him back) for Sanchez and I'm seting up my experts to work with Sanchez to see if they can modify his grip or release point in an effort to make tangible differences to his secondary offerings. I'd ask for a report at the end of the spring on what they've discovered, complete with a recommendation on whether this is worthwhile (and in which case if it needs to be continued in AAA) - or whether this is a waste of time and it's time to plunk him in the bullpen and accept what you have.

 

That's what a leader would do (IMO). He doesn't just say "oh well, I'm up here at the top - how am I expected to have any impact on an individual player". Sanchez is a young, talented, valuable asset right now. I expect the leader of this organization to do everything in his power to ensure they've tried everything they can to maximize his value. I'm not going to this extreme with Tony Sanchez's swing - but you're sure as s*** I would with Sanchez's arm.

 

The kind of adjustment you are talking about where you need is something you do in the offseason not 2 weeks before the season starts. The curveball really isn't the issue anyway. Its the changeup that needs the most work.

[Brownie19]

That's horseshit. Sanchez deserves a sot to at least be a late innings bullpen guy if anything and his numbers speaks for themselves in that regard. As a starter, I don't get the ******** that he NEEDS a strikeout pitch....when what he needs to do, and ALL he needs to do is to keep his walk rate per 9 way down and he will be just fine. Anybody who thinks Floyd or Happ is a better option than Sanchez in our rotation right now needs to put down the crackpipe, forget his password and back away from the messageboards. Sanchez has two higher than average fastballs and curveball and if he uses those pitches correctly, he can easily win 15-17 games every single season in this league. His numbers thus far this spring dictate he's figured something out and sending him down at this point makes no sense when his value as a late innings guy is just as high as anyone on this team.

 

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/bubbles2.gif

 

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bbbls.gif

[Brownie19]

The kind of adjustment you are talking about where you need is something you do in the offseason not 2 weeks before the season starts. The curveball really isn't the issue anyway. Its the changeup that needs the most work.

 

Who's to say it didn't start months ago? That said, Pittsburgh's pitching coach turned Happ into a world beater pretty quick...

 

I also disagree on the curve. I think it's an ineffective pitch for him. He needs a slider and a changeup - pitches on plain with his sinker.

[93 Jays]

What sanchez needs is time to develop and the desire to do so. Some friendly competition would benefit him greatly too and I think he can get that from Stroman too.

 

He needs a slider in the worst way, his curveball just isn't a pitch you want to throw with the rest of his stuff. But his fastball pitch doesn't have to be a wipeout pitch in order for his arm to be considered big. If they know its coming and they're still drilling it into the ground, it's just as useful of a pitch. I'd rather see him rack up groundball outs over K's because it will allow him to get deeper into games. Again, as long as he can keep his walk rate down, he will settle in fine as a no.2 starter.

 

If he doesn't do that, the decision needs to be made that he will either pitch out of the pen or go down to AAA and work on a secondary pitch as well as his command. But all this bagging on a 22 year old kid is ridiculous.

[BTS]

What sanchez needs is time to develop and the desire to do so. Some friendly competition would benefit him greatly too and I think he can get that from Stroman too.

 

He needs a slider in the worst way, his curveball just isn't a pitch you want to throw with the rest of his stuff. But his fastball pitch doesn't have to be a wipeout pitch in order for his arm to be considered big. If they know its coming and they're still drilling it into the ground, it's just as useful of a pitch. I'd rather see him rack up groundball outs over K's because it will allow him to get deeper into games. Again, as long as he can keep his walk rate down, he will settle in fine as a no.2 starter.

 

If he doesn't do that, the decision needs to be made that he will either pitch out of the pen or go down to AAA and work on a secondary pitch as well as his command. But all this bagging on a 22 year old kid is ridiculous.

 

He's 24 on July 1st.

[Brownie19]

What sanchez needs is time to develop and the desire to do so. Some friendly competition would benefit him greatly too and I think he can get that from Stroman too.

 

He needs a slider in the worst way, his curveball just isn't a pitch you want to throw with the rest of his stuff. But his fastball pitch doesn't have to be a wipeout pitch in order for his arm to be considered big. If they know its coming and they're still drilling it into the ground, it's just as useful of a pitch. I'd rather see him rack up groundball outs over K's because it will allow him to get deeper into games. Again, as long as he can keep his walk rate down, he will settle in fine as a no.2 starter.

 

If he doesn't do that, the decision needs to be made that he will either pitch out of the pen or go down to AAA and work on a secondary pitch as well as his command. But all this bagging on a 22 year old kid is ridiculous.

 

All that because I said there's a good chance he's s*** as a starting pitcher right now? Has the control looked better this spring? Sure, but it's generally been shorter outings vs. a lot of crappy competition. Forgive me if I'll take that with a grain of salt - considering his career minor league BB/9 is 4.9 BB/9 and has been 5+ BB/9 as a starter in the majors so far. If that magically drops to <3 in the majors, then I do think he can be a back of the rotation starter - but reality says that's pretty unlikely in 2016.

[burlingtonbandit]

Who's to say it didn't start months ago? That said, Pittsburgh's pitching coach turned Happ into a world beater pretty quick...

 

I also disagree on the curve. I think it's an ineffective pitch for him. He needs a slider and a changeup - pitches on plain with his sinker.

 

Curve has a positive pitch value in his career so I don't think you can say its ineffective. Plus the curve has less of a platoon split so since he already struggles with LHH I'm not sure you want to take that away.

[BTS]

Curve has a positive pitch value in his career so I don't think you can say its ineffective. Plus the curve has less of a platoon split so since he already struggles with LHH I'm not sure you want to take that away.

 

His curve has a high pitch value for the same reason that his ERA is a run lower than his xFIP: his BABIP is unsustainably low. I don't feel like looking it up, but I'm guessing that the whiff rate of his curveball is far below what you'd want from your best breaking ball.

[puphood]

Right now I need to see Floyd and Happ pitch again but as it stands now you have to let Sanchez start and I don't care how much you paid for Happ. Today he had a AAA catcher behind the plate and had one moment of loss of concentration. Whats this needs a strike out pitch?.....were you not watching .....KKKKK..... Edited March 18, 2016 by puphood
spelling

[Brownie19]

Curve has a positive pitch value in his career so I don't think you can say its ineffective. Plus the curve has less of a platoon split so since he already struggles with LHH I'm not sure you want to take that away.

 

I would guess that's because people sit fastball - and only fastball against him right now. My angle is the curve doesn't make the fastball better - which probably explains why he doesn't get as many swing and misses with the fastball as you'd expect. If he could consistently throw a decent slider and/or change on plain with the fastball - I suspect the fastball would miss a lot more bats.

 

There's a very good chance the curveball will never have that effect on his fastball. Can he keep it around as a surprise pitch and to help against lefties? sure, but he should be focusing elsewhere IMO.

[Brownie19]

Right now I need to see Floyd and Happ pitch again but as it stands now you have to let Sanchez start and I don't care how much you paid for Happ. Today he had a AAA catcher behind the plate and had one moment of loss of concentration. Whats this needs a strike out pitch?.....were you not watching .....KKKKK.....

 

He had a AAA catcher and was facing a AAA lineup...