Jays acquire Jesse Chavez

[Angrioter]

Is Chavez more of a GB pitcher or a flyball guy. If he's a GB guy, then this deal isn't too bad. If he is a FB guy, that is concerning.

 

Chavez is like Estrada, but eats more enchiladas and have a cartel style

[G-Snarls]

I like this deal as long as we're still adding a 1-2 caliber starter via free agency

[Spanky99]

I like this deal as long as we're still adding a 1-2 caliber starter via free agency

 

No doubt, 1 more to solidify the rotation.

[Angrioter]

I like this deal as long as we're still adding a 1-2 caliber starter via free agency

 

A trade is a trade. Add or not more arms doesn't change nothing

 

Good trade for the Jays.

[Atothe]

I'm hoping that the A's use him as a starter. That would be amazing.

[Spanky99]

A trade is a trade. Add or not more arms doesn't change nothing

 

Good trade for the Jays.

 

Great trade!

[Spanky99]

I'm hoping that the A's use him as a starter. That would be amazing.

 

Doubt that very muuch.

[KingKat]

"The thing about FIP is it's kind of useless for a guy like Chavez who gives up a ton of contact"

 

The Capital Jays guy just said that to me on the twitter. What a ridiculous statement, from a couple of angles.

 

You must be disappointed. The whole reason I started following that blog was because of you.

[ElNik2013]

Hendriks had some really good numbers in high leverage spots, just not good results. Should we be concerned that Shapiro might not see this?

 

 

I'm ok with Chavez, of course, as team needs SP, but price doesn't seem right.

[FrozenRopes]

Maybe Shapiro doesnt like Aussies and prefers gangsters. Maybe they 'fix him' like Estrada.

[crazy47larry]

i love hendriks as much as most guys (except that stalker guy on twitter) but flipping a RP like this is always the way to go. i know people are worried about years of control but we wouldnt be able to get chavez if he had more than one year of control. chavez is also a much different pitcher than when he was here before. once he got that patented oakland cutter/changeup he became a legitimately useful pitcher. hendriks had a similar evolution once he bumped up his velocity in the pen. chavez is way more proven though and as a SP no less. and i feel hendriks evolution is only one way since its unlikely he throws that hard back in the rotation. for a guy whose success is married to the pen and when most relievers shelf life is so short (and volatile*) i am fine with viewing this as a sell high (which i do). lord knows i wish we sold high on tons of other RPs over the years but people get caught up in building through the bullpen sometimes.

 

gonna miss hendriks a lot. guy was a boss.

 

*must have read that word 1000 times in this thread*

[nextyear]

Here is an interesting article on Jesse Chavez - http://www.sfchronicle.com/athletics/article/A-s-Jesse-Chavez-ignored-thin-chances-to-become-5387249.php?t=b6714efd7a3d4cb4da&cmpid=twitter-premium (it is an old story from April 2014 by Susan Slusser). I don't really remember Chavez from his Blue Jays days but it sounds like he has a fastball that is close to Aaron Sanchez in speed.

 

The article indicates that "Jesse is just all skin and bones." at 160 lb 6'2", this will make Aaron Sanchez look like a hulk in comparison (I thought Sanchez was thin but he is listed at 200 lb 6'4"). I wonder if Chavez is prone to injuries at such a light weight, but maybe being light will lessen the chances of leg joint injury (he has less weight to carry).

 

I wonder what Chavez's wife will do for a job in Toronto, there aren't many longshoreman jobs (although there is some shipping on the Great Lakes). It sounds like she likes driving big forklifts (Slusser refers to them as tractors) so there are many jobs like that around TO.

 

 

that is one eye-catching avatar crazy47larry

Edited November 21, 2015 by nextyear

[Jimcanuck]

I wonder what Chavez's wife will do for a job in Toronto, there aren't many longshoreman jobs (although there is some shipping on the Great Lakes). It sounds like she likes driving big forklifts (Slusser refers to them as tractors) so there are many jobs like that around TO.

 

Really? You should get out more.

[nextyear]

Really? You should get out more.

 

I wasn't being overly serious on that point Jimcanuck. But if you read the article it said that she enjoyed her work as a longshoreman.

 

It is amazing what can set some people off on this forum. Just to quote you Jimcanuck, "You should get out more"

 

But I am very curious as to why you highlighted the word "wonder" - what the heck is going through your mind?

[AdamGreenwood]

It sure was frustrating watching Gibbons trot out every reliever (including David Price) except Hendricks in the playoffs.

Kind of lost track of how many games we lost due to poor bullpen/starter management.

[Laika]

Hendriks has a 0.9 WAR projection, which is very good and seems very reasonable.

 

Chavez has a 2.0 WAR projection in 159 innings, which also seems reasonable.

 

If Hendriks remains a good setup man, you're probably looking at something like 2/3.5/5 in arbitration for him. So $11M for 3.8 WAR in four years.

Chavez is 2.0 WAR for $4.7M.

 

Hendriks - surplus value of about 19M.

Chavez - surplus value of about 11M.

 

But relatively speaking Chavez is very likely to produce his WARz, since they come across only one season. Relievers are so volatile that Hendriks isn't particularly likely to remain this good four seasons from now.

It's also possible for Hendriks to get a lot more money than that if he is pushed into the closer role at any time (see Tyler Clippard).

 

The value gap on paper is so negligible that Toronto's present roster considerations almost surely mitigate it. Chavez' WAR upgrade on Toronto's current roster is substantial given how bad the SP depth is. The value of those 2016 wins is highly leveraged due to the quality of Toronto's team and their place on the win curve.

[Laika]

You must be disappointed. The whole reason I started following that blog was because of you.

 

I haven't read it in a while, but the guy is a decent writer. He just needs to start posting here so we can learn him. Twitter is a dangerous place to refine your baseball mind

[BTS]

The thing that bothers me most about this is not knowing what Hendriks could have done in the rotation.

[HERPDERP]

The thing that bothers me most about this is not knowing what Hendriks could have done in the rotation.

 

we already knew, considering his velocity spike in the BP. No chance he replicates that.

[Laika]

we already knew, considering his velocity spike in the BP. No chance he replicates that.

 

Everybody's velo spikes in the pen, but mostly by ~2.5mph or something like that. Hendriks was up 3.6-3.9 mph this year over his avg FB the last couple of seasons, and up 4.5mph from when he was last exclusively a starting pitcher. So that kind of hints at a somewhat general rise in velocity not entirely tied to relief usage.

 

I guess the tease is that maybe he could have gone back to starting and been a guy sitting 91/92 instead of his old 90. Small differences like that in that range can have meaningful impacts.

[BTS]

I don't know where his velo sat in AAA in 2014, but he was outstanding across 20-something starts. There's a considerable chance that Hendriks in the rotation = Chavez, though the team clearly doesn't think so and paid for the reduced risk.

[RealAccountant]

There are a lot of people assuming that Chavez is guaranteed a rotation spot. I think he is in the swingman role right now. Lacava said before that they were looking to add 3 starters with Estrada and Chavez we still need one more.

 

I think the plan is

 

Stroman

Free agent starter

Dickey

Estrada

Hutch/Chavez/Sanchez battle for the last spot

 

Plus we finally have SP depth. Goodbye AAAA fodder starts

[GoJays]

Oakland has said already they see him as a late inning reliever. Even as that I like the trade for Oakland much more. My biggest problem is there are a lot of FA SP out there that are similar to Jesse Chavez and shouldn't be that expensive. And now you are going to have to replace Hendriks in the pen..

 

Maybe payroll really is going down.

 

Yikes, scary thought. Rogers wouldn't do that would they ?

[glory]

Unless Alex has become GM again, I don't think Chavez will suffer the same fate as Estrada in 2015, having to start in the pen so that Sanchez could walk 7 guys in every start for 2 months.

 

If the Jays add one more starter, and Hutchison has options left, then it's a no brainer. Stick Hutch in Buffalo (he'll be needed at some point regardless) and Chavez is the fifth starter.

[jayswin11]

Still holding out hope we can sign Price or another top guy. a rotation where Chavez (or Hutch) is our #5 would be nice. #1, Stro, Estrada, Dickey, Chavez

[ElNik2013]

Both Aaron Sanchez and Marco Estrada were starting pitchers for the Toronto Blue Jays beginning May 5th, 2015 (Estrada's first start) and until Aaron Sanchez was moved to the BP upon his return from the disabled list in July.

[IBTrini]

That guy is having a meltdown over the Jays trading Hendriks

 

Robemaster General ‏@KyleMatte 1h1 hour ago

For mw, trading Liam Hendriks is like what losing AA was for the rest of you.I'm drunk in the back of a cab, flaming mad.

Jesus Christ

 

Lol did the guy blow Hendriks or what? I really don't like the trade either but its not going to affect my everyday life lol. Its not like they traded Donaldson or Stroman for a pile of rocks.

 

This meltdown was amusing however this can be a major reason. Some people just cannot multitask - be drunk and be reasonable at the same time. ***Spanky? Are you here or in the cab?***

[Nitti999]

First of all Hendriks has proven nothing that he could be a fifth starter. Yes he had a few nice outings in the bullpen and several just okay outings. The idea of him or Hutchinson being the fifth starter on this team is not as strong a position as having Chavez as the fifth starter. If a top three starter is going to be acquired I am great with this. If not then well that's just stupid.

[Captain Adama]

First of all Hendriks has proven nothing that he could be a fifth starter. Yes he had a few nice outings in the bullpen and several just okay outings. The idea of him or Hutchinson being the fifth starter on this team is not as strong a position as having Chavez as the fifth starter. If a top three starter is going to be acquired I great with this. If not then well that's just stupid.

 

Hendriks didn't just have a "few nice outings" out of the bullpen.

[Nitti999]

Yes he did.