FanGraphs contract crowdsourcing is done

[TheHurl]

I don't get the comparisons with the Phillies. The Phillies had a ton of money tied up in pitching, which the Jays don't. The Jays position players are way more talented and younger than the Phillies.

 

Donaldson, Bautista, Martin, Tulo are much much better than Utely, Ruiz, Rollins, Howard were when the Phillies were in the playoffs. Pillar, Travis and Pompey are young position players the Phillies never had.

 

If you want to compare the Jays becoming an aging expensive team the Yankees are a much better example IMO and even then I'd take the Jays group.

 

2009 Utley was 30 and an 8 win player (Donaldson is 29 and an 8 win player)

2009 Werth and Howard were 30 and 29 year old, 4.5 win corner OF and 1B (Bautista and EE are 35 and 32 year old 4.5 win COF and 1B)

2009 Victorino was a 29 year old 3.5 win CF (Pillar is a 4 win 27 year old)

2009 Rollins was a 30 year 2.5 win SS (Tulo is a 31 year old 2.5 win SS)

2009 Ruiz was a 30 year old 2.5 win catcher (Martin is a 3.5 win 32 year old catcher).

Fans are all screaming...tie up big money into pitching.

No reason to see any similarities.

[Dr. Dinger]

JB and EE have 10 & 5 rights, as has been mentioned many, many times. You can't just trade them, they have full no-trade protection.

[TheHurl]

JB and EE have 10 & 5 rights, as has been mentioned many, many times. You can't just trade them, they have full no-trade protection.

 

Only way I entertain trading them at this point is a disaster first half of the season. If that is the case they are more likely to waive as well.

[Dr. Dinger]

I'd love to sign Heyward though, even at $200M. Put him in RF, Bautista to LF or 1B. Then you either platoon Revere and Colabello, or more likely trade Revere to clear salary.

[Dr. Dinger]

I agree Hurl, and in fact that makes me more excited about this season. If it is a disaster, Bautista and EE will be huge trade deadline targets, we could get a Top 30 prospect for each and then some. As for trading them this off-season, it's inconceivable.

[TheHurl]

You've likely taken in too much Potash, so I'll just leave you a warning...linking Stoeten is worse than killing a mod

 

Note: I don't know what Potash actually is and if you can take it in, but still my point stands

 

for the record the rankings of violations goes from barely an issue to IP ban and potential legal action

 

Post naked pics of a regular poster you have dated

Tell a mod to "Fan av och dö"

dick pic

Racist joke that is not racist

Be related to a Jays pitcher who causes them to lose (careful what you wish for Ang)

Bleacher report

rape a mods family member

Andrew Stoeten link.

[burlingtonbandit]

2009 Utley was 30 and an 8 win player (Donaldson is 29 and an 8 win player)

2009 Werth and Howard were 30 and 29 year old, 4.5 win corner OF and 1B (Bautista and EE are 35 and 32 year old 4.5 win COF and 1B)

2009 Victorino was a 29 year old 3.5 win CF (Pillar is a 4 win 27 year old)

2009 Rollins was a 30 year 2.5 win SS (Tulo is a 31 year old 2.5 win SS)

2009 Ruiz was a 30 year old 2.5 win catcher (Martin is a 3.5 win 32 year old catcher).

Fans are all screaming...tie up big money into pitching.

No reason to see any similarities.

 

Phillies also had one of the worst GMs in MLB history while Toronto has by all accounts one of the smarter ones. Thats worth a ton...

[burlingtonbandit]

Only way I entertain trading them at this point is a disaster first half of the season. If that is the case they are more likely to waive as well.

 

Yup. I think they know they would get more money if there is no QO attached.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

for the record the rankings of violations goes from barely an issue to IP ban and potential legal action

 

Post naked pics of a regular poster you have dated

Tell a mod to "Fan av och dö"

dick pic

Racist joke that is not racist

Be related to a Jays pitcher who causes them to lose (careful what you wish for Ang)

Bleacher report

rape a mods family member

Andrew Stoeten link.

 

s***. I have done three of those today. Am I now a mod?

[Nafro]

I like 2 of Kazmir, Chen or Iwakuma for rotation. Madson and Lowe for bullpen. I think it would also be nice to see if we could get Mourneau on a decent deal as a left-handed bat to match with Colabello for a platoon. Perhaps even Broxton if you can't get both Lowe and Madson.

[glory]

If you can sign Heyward, then just go short-term as hell with the rotation. I know people are going to hate the lack of a "true ace", but the defense, offense, and bullpen should be excellent in that scenario to the point where you can probably survive with filling the rotation with short-term options as long as they are league average or better.

[Nafro]

JB and EE have 10 & 5 rights, as has been mentioned many, many times. You can't just trade them, they have full no-trade protection.

 

I just really hope that this conversation never happens because we are winning.

[TheHurl]

Phillies also had one of the worst GMs in MLB history while Toronto has by all accounts one of the smarter ones. Thats worth a ton...

 

I don't doubt that...which is why I don't think Shapiro will invest heavily in long term pitching contracts. The biggest concern of the Jays going full Phillies just took his Souvlaki and went home (or took his Cellulite to South Beach if Dinger is correct)

[Nafro]

If you can sign Heyward, then just go short-term as hell with the rotation. I know people are going to hate the lack of a "true ace", but the defense, offense, and bullpen should be excellent in that scenario to the point where you can probably survive with filling the rotation with short-term options.

 

The first half of last season was spent with our potent line-up and no true ace. I think having Stroman will help now, but we need two top end rotation guys or we will not win enough

[dineke]

The first half of last season was spent with our potent line-up and no true ace. I think having Stroman will help now, but we need two top end rotation guys or we will not win enough

 

You also had pylons at LF and SS in the first half.

[Nafro]

You also had pylons at LF and SS in the first half.

 

That's a very valid point.

[FrozenRopes]

I have never been sold on Heyward. In history, who does he compare well too? Mostly a defense first guy. Lloyd?

[FrozenRopes]

Sign a top tier starter, 4 solid bullpen guys and a backup catcher. Isn't that hard, is it?

[Abomination]

I have never been sold on Heyward. In history, who does he compare well too? Mostly a defense first guy. Lloyd?

 

Heyward isn't just a defense first guy, but he definitely derives a lot of value from it. I personally keep coming back to Crawford at the same age (not a perfect fit, but probably a decent one).

[burlingtonbandit]

Heyward isn't just a defense first guy, but he definitely derives a lot of value from it. I personally keep coming back to Crawford at the same age (not a perfect fit, but probably a decent one).

 

Thats not a name people will want to hear if you are giving 200 Million to a player lol.

[glory]

I have never been sold on Heyward. In history, who does he compare well too? Mostly a defense first guy. Lloyd?

 

Career 118 wRC+ and projected at 122 for next season. He can hit and still has some upside with the bat. I agree that if you go for a long contract with him to include a player opt out after 4 years. Chances are he'll opt out unless he really crashes and burns, and at that point you'd get four seasons of his prime before he bolts for another 7-8 year deal.

[TheHurl]

I have never been sold on Heyward. In history, who does he compare well too? Mostly a defense first guy. Lloyd?

 

Where would you get that from?

 

Oh wait BR...

Similar Batters through 25

1. Lloyd Moseby (956)

 

I loved Lloyd and believe he's probably the most underrated Jay of all-time, and their age 24 and 25 seasons are pretty similar but Heyward has a really good 4 year history prior to those, whereas Moseby had 3 really weak starting years. The seasons were similar, hopefully Heyward has a better back and hammy's than Lloyd.

 

I'd like to add that the 4th most similar guy to Heyward through age 25...Barry Bonds.

[dineke]

I'd like to add that the 4th most similar guy to Heyward through age 25...Barry Bonds.

 

Well lets sign him to a 300 million contract and pump some roids into him.

[burlingtonbandit]

Well lets sign him to a 300 million contract and pump some roids into him.

 

Gonna need to fix that swing first.

[Terminator]

Heyward is 6-5, 250 - is he really going to be an elite defensive player for that much longer?

 

I'm not saying he won't, but am genuinely asking.

[burlingtonbandit]

Heyward is 6-5, 250 - is he really going to be an elite defensive player for that much longer?

 

I'm not saying he won't, but am genuinely asking.

 

I would hope the next 2-3 years. He's got a pretty muscular build so its not like he's carrying bad weight. I think that is why people would be on board with an opt out.

[Orgfiller]

Heyward is 6-5, 250 - is he really going to be an elite defensive player for that much longer?

 

I'm not saying he won't, but am genuinely asking.

 

It's not like he's fat though. If you've ever seen him, he's lean and in excellent shape.

 

If you take someone like Bautista, not nearly as athletic as Heyward but still manages to keep himself in great shape. Now, give Bautista Heyward's defensive instincts (reads/jumps, efficient routes) and you have a fantastic defender. Heyward isn't elite just because he's fast, but he covers so much ground in part because he reads the ball off the bat well and takes great routes to the baseball.

[Grant77]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-crowd-the-top-82-free-agents/

 

Note that in past years the "crowd’s misses weren’t evenly dispersed, but generally included underestimating the contracts given to more desirable free agents and, in many cases, overestimating the amount received by more ordinary free agents."

 

Pick your targets! Who jumps out as a great deal? Terrible deal?

 

Holy crap, I wouldn't touch Zimmermann or Cueto with a 10 foot pole at those prices. Samardzija put up about the same WAR as the former and is much more appealing at 4/64.

 

One pitcher out of each of the following groups would be an effective and fiscally responsible plan in my books:

 

Group 1:

Samardzija (4/64), Kazmir (3/42), Iwakuma (3/42), Kennedy (3/39)*, Anderson (3/33)*, Lackey (2/30)

 

Group 2:

Colon (1/10), Hill (1/6), Lincecum (1/6), Young (1/6), Blanton (1/4)

 

*If no QO

 

On the RP side, Broxton, Kelley, Madson and Lowe look particularly appealing.

[Nafro]

Take Chen off my list, he was qualified. I would rather eat my own eye ball than give a draft pick to Baltimore.

[THANOS]

Holy crap, I wouldn't touch Zimmermann or Cueto with a 10 foot pole at those prices. Samardzija put up about the same WAR as the former and is much more appealing at 4/64.

 

One pitcher out of each of the following groups would be an effective and fiscally responsible plan in my books:

 

Group 1:

Samardzija (4/64), Kazmir (3/42), Iwakuma (3/42), Kennedy (3/39)*, Anderson (3/33)*, Lackey (2/30)

 

Group 2:

Colon (1/10), Hill (1/6), Lincecum (1/6), Young (1/6), Blanton (1/4)

 

*If no QO

 

On the RP side, Broxton, Kelley, Madson and Lowe look particularly appealing.

 

Iwakuma/Lee and Hill look appealing. I have a question, since there's no type B free-agent anymore, does any FA we sign take our 1st round pick in 2016, whether it's Price or Rich Hill?