John Gibbons Thread (+ Venting)

[Terminator]

Speaking of bad managing how about Farrell taking Ortiz out for a PR on 2nd base down 3 runs.

 

Was Ferrell worse than Gibbons? I don't really remember.

[burlingtonbandit]

Was Ferrell worse than Gibbons? I don't really remember.

 

Yeah especially when it came to bunting. He would bunt with a guy on 1st and 1 out IIRC. Drove me crazy.

 

Gibbons is bad pen management but he's still better than half the managers out there.

[sawyerford]

- Fan since 2001 but whatever. Its true tho Gibby does get blamed for everything

[Jonn]

Why does Osuna have to be used in save situations only though? Boston has a helluva lineup. I don't mind using the closer on them when up 4. Grilli is too scary to trust in a situation like that.

 

If he gives up more than 2 base runners you obviously get Osuna up at that point. I don't care about the save statistic at all. You can argue Boogers saved us in the first with that bunt.

 

I would like to see one of your other back end options with a 4 run lead because you could have a one run lead against the Tigers tomorrow and now we have to use Grilli, Biagini, or Storen anyway. Osuns threw close to 30 pitches today. And a lot on Friday if I remember correctly.

[sawyerford]

That was pefect inning for Jason Grilli to come in with a clean inning and a 4 run lead to work to the Red Sox 2,3,4 guys and see what he had.

 

Bringing out Estrada was nonsense. Well over 100 pitches he had a beautiful 8 inning game that ended with a strike out in the 8th of Betts.

 

Instead you bring back Estrada when hes done the adrenaline is gone from the no hitter. Promptly gives up a double and go immediately to Osuna in a non save situation when hes pitched 6 of the last 8 days and had problems Friday night. Its just giving Boston a free look at your closer. And you better believe they feel they can get to him now. Credit to Osuna for not completely imploding but still not a good outing.

 

I'm not saying Grilli comes in and gets a shut down inning. But hes a fresh arm and someone you brought in to pitch late in games. That would be an excellent early test in a 4 run situation. Plus getting his first full inning in the books.

 

I can't believe this buffoon is still managing this team.

 

Who would you rather manage the team? Wedge? Gibby's job is safe for now

[Jonn]

Who would you rather manage the team? Wedge? Gibby's job is safe for now

 

Why the f*** would Wedge be brought up. I would think even Shapiro cringed about his sabermetrics comment.

[sawyerford]

If Gibby is fired, Wedge will be the next manager. Cmon who else would Shatkins hire? Wedge is just waiting for that phone call.

[admin]

Why does Osuna have to be used in save situations only though? Boston has a helluva lineup. I don't mind using the closer on them when up 4. Grilli is too scary to trust in a situation like that.

 

Because it's common sense. Put him in every time we have a four run lead he'll be unavailable, or over used (like last year) when we actually need him.

Gibbons should be fired alone for the fact he brought out Estrada in the 9th with 108 pitches. That's like me working as a car salesman and selling cars at 50% off. It's just kinda common sense. How do you have a job when you make so many basic mistakes. Any other job with mistakes like this, you'd be fired.

 

You have a four run lead, I don't care it's Boston, you need three outs. Bring in Grilli, two runners get on, go to Osuna.

 

Except that's not true though is it - It was actually 3 times in the last 8 days, Sunday 29th, Tuesday 31st and Friday 3rd. Using him today makes 4 times in 9 days!

 

Maybe your incorrect calculations led to your 'Don't pitch him tonight - rest him and save him for tomorrow' bizarreness on Friday.

 

Ah thanks for clearing it up, that's more acceptable.

 

----

 

Farrell was pretty s***** when he was here too. Well I don't remember him being overly terrible but I remember questionable decisions. It was also his first year as manager though.

[Terminator]

Because it's common sense. Put him in every time we have a four run lead he'll be unavailable, or over used (like last year) when we actually need him.

Gibbons should be fired alone for the fact he brought out Estrada in the 9th with 108 pitches. That's like me working as a car salesman and selling cars at 50% off. It's just kinda common sense. How do you have a job when you make so many basic mistakes. Any other job with mistakes like this, you'd be fired.

 

You have a four run lead, I don't care it's Boston, you need three outs. Bring in Grilli, two runners get on, go to Osuna.

 

 

Well I just don't agree with that nor do I think it's common sense. It's standard thinking which is warped by the save stat but it's not common sense.

 

First I don't think he should come in every time we have a 4 run lead. In special circumstances it makes sense though. A 4 run lead vs the most potent offense in baseball's middle of the order is not your typical 4 run lead. Getting the final 3 outs in that situation would be harder than getting 3 outs against the bottom of the Twins lineup with a 3 run lead yet Osuna would be expected to get the ball in the latter situation because of a ******** stat called the save. On top of it these games against the Red Sox are extra important seeing as it likely comes down to us and them for who wins the division.

 

The Save is pretty much a ******** stat that somehow has completely hijacked the way managers and fans think the 9th inning should be managed. I think it should be ignored when making bullpen decisions.

 

EDIT: That said I do think that what you said makes sense. Grilli kind of scares me in a situation like that right now but putting in a Chavez or Floyd with a 4 run lead then going to Osuna if necessary and it's not like I would be blasting Gibbons for doing it. I'm just defending a bullpen move by Gibbons that isn't by the book but isn't necessarily wrong either.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Terminator

[admin]

I just dont think it was time to panic just yet. I know Boston is scary, but it's still four runs, it's not easy to score four runs in an inning. Just for fun I looked back at their last 22 games and they scored four runs in an inning seven times. That's seven times in 198 innings. The probability is quite low. Not this incident specfically, but in gernal, I just don't want to go into the next game in a one run game, and Gibbons has to put someone else in. We've seen Gibbons do it before.

[baloojayz]

Why doesn't he let Walker make the BP decisions? Doesn't seem like he enjoys doing it much. He seems calm and laid back until the opposition gets into the pen and then he's pacing.

[burlingtonbandit]

I just dont think it was time to panic just yet. I know Boston is scary, but it's still four runs, it's not easy to score four runs in an inning. Just for fun I looked back at their last 22 games and they scored four runs in an inning seven times. That's seven times in 198 innings. The probability is quite low. Not this incident specfically, but in gernal, I just don't want to go into the next game in a one run game, and Gibbons has to put someone else in. We've seen Gibbons do it before.

 

I was fine with Osuna coming into the game considering it was the Red Sox and the middle of the order. The game is worth double pretty much since its against a division opponent. My problem was Gibby letting Estrada start the inning.

[baloojayz]

I just dont think it was time to panic just yet. I know Boston is scary, but it's still four runs, it's not easy to score four runs in an inning. Just for fun I looked back at their last 22 games and they scored four runs in an inning seven times. That's seven times in 198 innings. The probability is quite low. Not this incident specfically, but in gernal, I just don't want to go into the next game in a one run game, and Gibbons has to put someone else in. We've seen Gibbons do it before.

 

At the same time though, you have to remember they did all of the scoring today against a very good Estrada and Osuna. Don't know why some think Floyd or Grilli would have fared a whole lot better. The only argument is they would have had a clean inning to work with. Imo this point is moot when you consider how much better Osuna is AND the fact that he is equally effective even with runners on base. The Boston offence is very hard to shut down and can erupt at any point just as KC's did in the playoffs vs Price. In hindsight, we probably lose this one if we send out Floyd or Grilli.

 

Also statistics can be a little tricky to use sometimes. It's not as straightforward as just looking at their last 22 games and seeing how many times they scored 4 runs (btw I hope you searched for 4 or more runs), b/c you can easily turn around and say Boston scores 5.89 runs per game on average so it would be no surprise if they score another 4-5 runs.

[Grant77]

At the same time though, you have to remember they did all of the scoring today against a very good Estrada and Osuna. Don't know why some think Floyd or Grilli would have fared a whole lot better. The only argument is they would have had a clean inning to work with. Imo this point is moot when you consider how much better Osuna is AND the fact that he is equally effective even with runners on base. The Boston offence is very hard to shut down and can erupt at any point just as KC's did in the playoffs vs Price. In hindsight, we probably lose this one if we send out Floyd or Grilli.

 

Also statistics can be a little tricky to use sometimes. It's not as straightforward as just looking at their last 22 games and seeing how many times they scored 4 runs (btw I hope you searched for 4 or more runs), b/c you can easily turn around and say Boston scores 5.89 runs per game on average so it would be no surprise if they score another 4-5 runs.

 

It's just as likely that they would have a clean inning. You can't just say that since they scored off of pitcher A, they also would have scored off of pitcher B.

 

All that 5.89 runs stat tells you is that they score .65 (or whatever, mental math) per inning. It's not like these things balance out on a game to game basis.

[puphood]

I am good with the move to let Estrada start the 9th. sort of a Buehrle move with a better outcome.......

[intentional wok]

Well I just don't agree with that nor do I think it's common sense. It's standard thinking which is warped by the save stat but it's not common sense.

 

First I don't think he should come in every time we have a 4 run lead. In special circumstances it makes sense though. A 4 run lead vs the most potent offense in baseball's middle of the order is not your typical 4 run lead. Getting the final 3 outs in that situation would be harder than getting 3 outs against the bottom of the Twins lineup with a 3 run lead yet Osuna would be expected to get the ball in the latter situation because of a ******** stat called the save. On top of it these games against the Red Sox are extra important seeing as it likely comes down to us and them for who wins the division.

 

The Save is pretty much a ******** stat that somehow has completely hijacked the way managers and fans think the 9th inning should be managed. I think it should be ignored when making bullpen decisions.

 

EDIT: That said I do think that what you said makes sense. Grilli kind of scares me in a situation like that right now but putting in a Chavez or Floyd with a 4 run lead then going to Osuna if necessary and it's not like I would be blasting Gibbons for doing it. I'm just defending a bullpen move by Gibbons that isn't by the book but isn't necessarily wrong either.

 

Totally with you. If your best reliever is ready to go, absolutely use him against the top of the order of the league's current best offense while playing in their clown park.

 

Osuna got rocked (luckily not rocked enough), but I still defend the move. If it were 5-2 going into the ninth we wouldn't even be having this discussion because it would be the "right move". Stat managing is the scourge of winning baseball games.

 

If anything was crazy, it was bringing in Estrada to face that lineup again. Everything in the 7th was stung. And while I can't really fault Gibby for letting Estrada have his shot at the no-hitter, the homer in the 8th wasn't much of a shock. Bringing him out for the 9th seemed destined to fail.

 

Gibby seems comfortable with avoiding the bullpen as much as possible. That's all right, I guess, as long as his starts are effective and efficient. But I think he tends to go a step too far and allows his guys to get themselves into a bit too much trouble before bringing out the fire extinguisher.

[Stangstag]

I am good with the move to let Estrada start the 9th. sort of a Buehrle move with a better outcome.......

 

Then you're dumb

[HypeLikeJoseCruzJr.]

Totally with you. If your best reliever is ready to go, absolutely use him against the top of the order of the league's current best offense while playing in their clown park.

 

Osuna got rocked (luckily not rocked enough), but I still defend the move. If it were 5-2 going into the ninth we wouldn't even be having this discussion because it would be the "right move". Stat managing is the scourge of winning baseball games.

 

If anything was crazy, it was bringing in Estrada to face that lineup again. Everything in the 7th was stung. And while I can't really fault Gibby for letting Estrada have his shot at the no-hitter, the homer in the 8th wasn't much of a shock. Bringing him out for the 9th seemed destined to fail.

Gibby seems comfortable with avoiding the bullpen as much as possible. That's all right, I guess, as long as his starts are effective and efficient. But I think he tends to go a step too far and allows his guys to get themselves into a bit too much trouble before bringing out the fire extinguisher.

 

I think Gibby is really just letting Estrada have a chance to become a true ace. He wouldn't have done this with Sanchez, but Estrada is earning this by the way he is pitching, almost every time out. I think he managed it perfectly, give the rain a bit of credit for reducing pitch selection in the 9th for Osuna.

[CHRIS]

I think Gibby is really just letting Estrada have a chance to become a true ace. He wouldn't have done this with Sanchez, but Estrada is earning this by the way he is pitching, almost every time out. I think he managed it perfectly, give the rain a bit of credit for reducing pitch selection in the 9th for Osuna.

 

Gibby should be worrying more about winning games than attempting to validate meaningless labels like "ace".

 

Estrada looked done, and I think was fortunate that some of the balls found gloves in the later inning.

 

With the no-hitter gone, I think he should have gone to the pen to start the 9th, and that it should have been Osuna.

[admin]

I was fine with Osuna coming into the game considering it was the Red Sox and the middle of the order. The game is worth double pretty much since its against a division opponent. My problem was Gibby letting Estrada start the inning.

 

Yeah, like I said, Jonn first said he was pitching in like 6 of last 8 days (which turned out to be wrong), so I'm not as mad as I initially was. And I agree, bringing in Estrada with 108 pitches is just stupid. Mind blowing stupid. In Gibbons' defense, he was still cruising along minus that on bad pitch, but 108 pitches, come on.

 

At the same time though, you have to remember they did all of the scoring today against a very good Estrada and Osuna. Don't know why some think Floyd or Grilli would have fared a whole lot better. The only argument is they would have had a clean inning to work with. Imo this point is moot when you consider how much better Osuna is AND the fact that he is equally effective even with runners on base. The Boston offence is very hard to shut down and can erupt at any point just as KC's did in the playoffs vs Price. In hindsight, we probably lose this one if we send out Floyd or Grilli.

 

Also statistics can be a little tricky to use sometimes. It's not as straightforward as just looking at their last 22 games and seeing how many times they scored 4 runs (btw I hope you searched for 4 or more runs), b/c you can easily turn around and say Boston scores 5.89 runs per game on average so it would be no surprise if they score another 4-5 runs.

 

Estrada shouldn't have even come out in the 9th, Gibbons set that shitstor off by allowing him to continue. And as above, at first we thought Osuna pitched a ton of innings lately, but that was wrong information. So I'm not terribly upset Osuna was used. I still would have tried to save him. The bigger issue is, there are just too many of these decision he makes, over and over again. They add up.

[Pendleton]

- Fan since 2001 but whatever. Its true tho Gibby does get blamed for everything

 

The manager oversees and has final say on all on-field decisions. Once again I will ask, when people are angry over personnel decisions, where do you think that anger should be directed? We won the game, so no one can blame Gibbons for anything. He's taking heat because of questionable use of his pitchers, a decision that is ultimately up to the manager.

 

People are upset about Estrada being left in the game, and directing their anger towards the guy who made the decision. Not really sure what else you would like them to do, maybe don't read the John Gibbons venting thread of you don't want to see people venting about John Gibbons.

[Terminator]

Totally with you. If your best reliever is ready to go, absolutely use him against the top of the order of the league's current best offense while playing in their clown park.

 

Osuna got rocked (luckily not rocked enough), but I still defend the move. If it were 5-2 going into the ninth we wouldn't even be having this discussion because it would be the "right move". Stat managing is the scourge of winning baseball games.

 

If anything was crazy, it was bringing in Estrada to face that lineup again. Everything in the 7th was stung. And while I can't really fault Gibby for letting Estrada have his shot at the no-hitter, the homer in the 8th wasn't much of a shock. Bringing him out for the 9th seemed destined to fail.

 

Gibby seems comfortable with avoiding the bullpen as much as possible. That's all right, I guess, as long as his starts are effective and efficient. But I think he tends to go a step too far and allows his guys to get themselves into a bit too much trouble before bringing out the fire extinguisher.

 

Yeah starting the inning off with Estrada was dumb. Gibby always lets his starters pitch until the fail, then the bullpen comes in with runners on instead of starting off with a clean inning.

[admin]

Yeah starting the inning off with Estrada was dumb. Gibby always lets his starters pitch until the fail, then the bullpen comes in with runners on instead of starting off with a clean inning.

 

Exactly. SUre it may seem simple, "come in with a guy on base, big deal." But there's more to it than that. I bet if Osuna would have started the inning fresh it wouldn't have turned into what it did.

[puphood]

Then you're dumb

nice come back...

[BigCecil]

Bump. I haven't railed on Gibby since Leon vs Souza Jr but GTFO on losing the DH tonight.

 

And stop f***ing playing Jose in RF when you don't have to.

 

Great ugly W glossing over some total BS managing.

[admin]

Don't forget three innings of Chavez serving them right down the plate. Could have been a few homeruns over those innings.

[Daniel Labude]

Bump. I haven't railed on Gibby since Leon vs Souza Jr but GTFO on losing the DH tonight.

 

And stop f***ing playing Jose in RF when you don't have to.

 

Great ugly W glossing over some total BS managing.

 

Agreed.

 

I have stopped making my dispeasure known in abundance, or tried to at least. He is a terrible in game manager......but it's pretty clear they are gonna stick with him this year. He better be gone at seasons end unless we win it all!

[fatcowxlive]

Bump. I haven't railed on Gibby since Leon vs Souza Jr but GTFO on losing the DH tonight.

 

And stop f***ing playing Jose in RF when you don't have to.

 

Great ugly W glossing over some total BS managing.

 

I agree with pulling the DH for Edwin but I was expecting Bautista out and Upton in right for a double switch, keeping Bautista in was the mistake

 

But he should have used Grilli before jumping to Chavez but then who would come in after Grilli? Shultz? Morales? They're not really reliable guys but Chavez gives you length

[CrackerJack]

Gibby!

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/major-league-best-tools/

[Melvin]

Gibby!

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/major-league-best-tools/

 

Favourite manager for other manager's to play against. Gibby makes it tough for them to lose!