Jays sign Martin - So what's next priority??

[KingKat]

I think they'll DFA Thole and keep Navarro. If Thole wants to stick with the org in AAA (assuming he clears waivers or doesn't get dealt), they'll be fine with that. Otherwise, they have Jimenez and any other vet AAAA catchers they can grab. Martin can catch Dickey. Dickey will get over it.

 

If they DFA Thole, I think it won't come until the end of spring training after Martin has worked with Dickey some. The organiztion just seems very preoccupied with who can catch Dickey, more so than the man himself is.

[Caper]

I would like to see Melky signed and then Reyes dealt for what ever. I want the lineup stacked from 1 to 7, the detroit guy at 2nd base as kind of a wild card (well pompey would be to I guess)... But then I want Goins at SS. I really think he's one of the best defensive infielders Ive seen in a Jays uniform.... and that has to mean something, even if he cant hit.

[Chappy]

I would like to see Melky signed and then Reyes dealt for what ever. I want the lineup stacked from 1 to 7, the detroit guy at 2nd base as kind of a wild card (well pompey would be to I guess)... But then I want Goins at SS. I really think he's one of the best defensive infielders Ive seen in a Jays uniform.... and that has to mean something, even if he cant hit.

 

Yuck.

[agrushcow]

Why the f*** does anyone think your rotation's fine? Fine I guess means fine....but fine doesn't mean world series run caliber. It's a pitching driven league, this team's biggest need is without a doubt an ace and it's not even close. Without that our ceiling is limited.

[LongTimeReader]

Why the f*** does anyone think your rotation's fine? Fine I guess means fine....but fine doesn't mean world series run caliber. It's a pitching driven league, this team's biggest need is without a doubt an ace and it's not even close. Without that our ceiling is limited.

 

Nobody actually needs an "Ace" to get the play-offs, they just need 5 starting pitchers who's collective performance outdoes their opponent (not to mention bullpen and offense). Once you get to the play-offs it's a different story of course...

[JaysFanToTheEnd]

What are your guys thoughts if this were to hypothetically happen:

 

AA trades buehrle and maybe navarro to Dodgers for Andre Either with Dodgers eating some of the contract up, so essentially we would be paying Andre, Melky's money.

 

Then try to sign one of Lester, Scherzer, Shields or McCarthy+Miller, Santana+Miller.

 

I don't know if Dodgers would even do this but they do need to get rid of one of their outfielders and are looking for another SP.

[KingKat]

What are your guys thoughts if this were to hypothetically happen:

 

AA trades buehrle and maybe navarro to Dodgers for Andre Either with Dodgers eating some of the contract up, so essentially we would be paying Andre, Melky's money.

 

Then try to sign one of Lester, Scherzer, Shields or McCarthy+Miller, Santana+Miller.

 

I don't know if Dodgers would even do this but they do need to get rid of one of their outfielders and are looking for another SP.

 

Before trying to wrap my head around the financials of that deal, I'll just say that Buehrle is a pretty valuable piece for the Jays. I don't want to acquire a platoon OF at the cost of Buehrle. There are easier ways of accomplishing that.

[burlingtonbandit]

Why the f*** does anyone think your rotation's fine? Fine I guess means fine....but fine doesn't mean world series run caliber. It's a pitching driven league, this team's biggest need is without a doubt an ace and it's not even close. Without that our ceiling is limited.

 

Well getting to the playoffs matters a lot because this franchise hasn't done it in 20 years. Having an "ace" doesn't guarantee you anything in the playoffs either. We saw Kershaw and Shields suck in the postseason even though they are great pitchers. KC made it to the WS without an ace pitcher. If anything, we can draw a conclusion that the postseason is just a crapshoot and anything can happen.

 

People are also underestimating this rotation. With the added improvement of Martin behind the plate this rotation's numbers would look a lot better. Obviously there is a lot of risk with Stroman and Hutchison being young but there is risk with pitching no matter what. So lets get rid of this notion that we need a "Lester" because he is magically going to take the team to the World Series.

[canadiansportsjunkie]

Number # 2 SP

[TwistedLogic]

I wonder what the availability/price tag is on Zobrist.

[glory]

Why was Thole's option even picked up? Wasn't he arbitration eligible if they declined his option? Could have non-tendered him and lost nothing.

[burlingtonbandit]

Why was Thole's option even picked up? Wasn't he arbitration eligible if they declined his option? Could have non-tendered him and lost nothing.

 

That was my argument at the time. Thole's value is tied to Dickey. He has no value to any other team in the Majors so if you decline the option you can tell him to take what we give you or go sign a minor league contract somewhere else.

[Smokey]

Having an "ace" doesn't guarantee you anything in the playoffs either. We saw Kershaw and Shields suck in the postseason even though they are great pitchers. KC made it to the WS without an ace pitcher. If anything, we can draw a conclusion that the postseason is just a crapshoot and anything can happen.

 

Not really. If anything, seeing Bumgarner carry the Giants to the championship showed just how important of an impact a front-line starter can have. Right now this team does not have one starter that I'd feel comfortable with in a one game do or die scenario. Not one. I don't understand the rational that you'd feel satisfied with just getting into the playoffs "because this franchise hasn't done it in 20 years"? The reality is that AA has been given every opportunity to succeed and build a championship caliber team and simply sneaking into the playoffs and going out after one game is not my definition of success.

[burlingtonbandit]

Not really. If anything, seeing Bumgarner carry the Giants to the championship showed just how important of an impact a front-line starter can have. Right now this team does not have one starter that I'd feel comfortable with in a one game do or die scenario. Not one. I don't understand the rational that you'd feel satisfied with just getting into the playoffs "because this franchise hasn't done it in 20 years"? The reality is that AA has been given every opportunity to succeed and build a championship caliber team and simply sneaking into the playoffs and going out after one game is not my definition of success.

 

I already said that even if you have a "ace" there is no guarantee that makes you get to the World Series. For every Bumgarner there was a Kershaw or a Shields that have that reputation as an ace yet it didn't help their teams in the post season. Even Lester didn't make the A's go to the WS. I would much rather invest money into LF or 2b that gives the Blue Jays a better chance of winning the division than blowing all their money on a frontline SP.

 

The upgrade this team could make by getting a decent 2B or LF/CF is better than by getting a Lester over a Dickey. Furthermore I don't want to give an over 30 pitcher over 5 years and 130 million when you already have a good rotation.

[Smokey]

I already said that even if you have a "ace" there is no guarantee that makes you get to the World Series. For every Bumgarner there was a Kershaw or a Shields that have that reputation as an ace yet it didn't help their teams in the post season. Even Lester didn't make the A's go to the WS. I would much rather invest money into LF or 2b that gives the Blue Jays a better chance of winning the division than blowing all their money on a frontline SP.

 

The upgrade this team could make by getting a decent 2B or LF/CF is better than by getting a Lester over a Dickey. Furthermore I don't want to give an over 30 pitcher over 5 years and 130 million when you already have a good rotation.

 

 

The fact that it doesn't guarantee anything is irrelevant... Bottom-line is that having a shut down guy taking the ball in those key games significantly increases your chances of going far. Besides, a shut down starter doesn't necessarily have to be an "ace" signed as a FA for hundreds of millions, it could just be a front-line starter with high upside who could even be acquired mid-season. Anything is better than relying on Dickey especially in October weather.

[READERsince2006]

Buehrle, Dickey, Stro, Hutch and Happ with Sanchez and Norris waiting in the wings is a good rotation, better then the Orioles/Royals and as good as the Angels all of whom made the postseason

 

All these guys can throw under 4.00 ERAs minus Happ who will probably be on his way out, hopefully Buehrle repeats as he use to be considered an ACE to lead the way and maybe worth a qualifying offer come next offseason, not every ACE has to throw 95

 

For what we would pay one of these starting pitchers who play in 1/5 of the games we could pay a good starting LF(hunter/markakis), a decent 2B (weeks/drew) to bridge gap for Travis and also snag a reliever to fill out the pen while still having Navarro to trade away for another

[burlingtonbandit]

The fact that it doesn't guarantee anything is irrelevant... Bottom-line is that having a shut down guy taking the ball in those key games significantly increases your chances of going far. Besides, a shut down starter doesn't necessarily have to be an "ace" signed as a FA for hundreds of millions, it could just be a front-line starter with high upside who could even be acquired mid-season. Anything is better than relying on Dickey especially in October weather.

 

Well Marcus Stroman is a candidate for a potential front end starter. I don't think anyone is saying Dickey is going to be a game 7 starter. There is nothing wrong with acquiring an ace type starter but I do have a problem with it if you don't address the OF and 2B. I feel more comfortable going in with this staff and upgrades at 2B and the OF than I do getting Shields and going into the season relying on Pompey in CF and Travis at 2B.

[READERsince2006]

we can always trade for a top tier pitcher come the deadline when were either in the front of the pack or legit contending

[Smokey]

Well Marcus Stroman is a candidate for a potential front end starter. I don't think anyone is saying Dickey is going to be a game 7 starter. There is nothing wrong with acquiring an ace type starter but I do have a problem with it if you don't address the OF and 2B. I feel more comfortable going in with this staff and upgrades at 2B and the OF than I do getting Shields and going into the season relying on Pompey in CF and Travis at 2B.

 

I agree that Pompey and Travis shouldn't be relied on to start the season but Izturis is coming back and should be able to fill in at 2B for now and acquiring a speedy light hitting CFer (who would get pushed to the bench when Pompey proves to be ready) shouldn't be too difficult. Basically, the only full time position of need is LF which also is also relatively easy to fill.

[Stangstag]

I agree that Pompey and Travis shouldn't be relied on to start the season but Izturis is coming back and should be able to fill in at 2B for now and a light hitting CFer (who would get pushed to the bench when Pompey proves to be ready) shouldn't cost too much. Basically, the only full time position of need is LF which also is also relatively easy to fill.

 

We definitely need an infielder like Jed Lowrie or Headley. What happens when Lawrie/Reyes get hurt? Our infield could look like Lawrie-Goins-Izturis or Izturis-Reyes-Goins or possibly even Izturis-Goins-Travis for a whole month. That would be trash.

[Smokey]

We definitely need an infielder like Jed Lowrie or Headley. What happens when Lawrie/Reyes get hurt? Our infield could look like Lawrie-Goins-Izturis or Izturis-Reyes-Goins or possibly even Izturis-Goins-Travis for a whole month. That would be trash.

 

I wouldn't mind either option but I'm not sure if it's a must considering that as it stands the infield depth is actually much better than it was at the start of last season with the addition of guys like Valencia and Travis.

[burlingtonbandit]

I agree that Pompey and Travis shouldn't be relied on to start the season but Izturis is coming back and should be able to fill in at 2B for now and acquiring a speedy light hitting CFer (who would get pushed to the bench when Pompey proves to be ready) shouldn't be too difficult. Basically, the only full time position of need is LF which also is also relatively easy to fill.

 

You want to rely on Izturis? The guy who was the worst position player in the MLB in 2013 and then blew out his knee in 2014, all the while getting older in the process... If this guy provides positive value at all I would be surprised.. I honestly think they should just eat the 3 million and get a better bench player. I don't even think Izturis is capable of playing 2nd let alone SS.

[Smokey]

You want to rely on Izturis? The guy who was the worst position player in the MLB in 2013 and then blew out his knee in 2014, all the while getting older in the process... If this guy provides positive value at all I would be surprised.. I honestly think they should just eat the 3 million and get a better bench player. I don't even think Izturis is capable of playing 2nd let alone SS.

 

AA is expecting Travis to be ready soon and if that's the case, I don't have a huge problem with starting Izturis or even Goins for a month or two.

[reedjohnsonfan]

AA is expecting Travis to be ready soon and if that's the case, I don't have a huge problem with starting Izturis or even Goins for a month or two.

 

If AA is rolling with Pompey and at some point Travis in what is supposed to be a contending year, we will learn a lot about his talent evaluation. This offseason looks like it will be a major retooling one, AA has a lot of different directions to go, if they don't deliver then he will be shown the door.

[gruber92]

I agree that Pompey and Travis shouldn't be relied on to start the season but Izturis is coming back and should be able to fill in at 2B for now and acquiring a speedy light hitting CFer (who would get pushed to the bench when Pompey proves to be ready) shouldn't be too difficult. Basically, the only full time position of need is LF which also is also relatively easy to fill.

 

Pompey is already a speedy Cfer and is a great base runner /stealer and has an approach at the plate beyond his years. Pompey is a mature kid and his overall approach and preparation leads me to believe he's not going to hurt the team as the starting CFer while he goes through his MLB adaptation. Like you said, a solid starting LFer is more a priority and should not be difficult to obtain. I'd offer 2/25 to Markakis and see what happens. He'd be a nice #2 hitter versus RHP while providing solid defense in LF and can obviously slide into RF when Bautista DH's. Outfield defense of Pompey,Bautista and Markakis will be solid.

[burlingtonbandit]

AA is expecting Travis to be ready soon and if that's the case, I don't have a huge problem with starting Izturis or even Goins for a month or two.

 

If my job is on the line no matter what circumstance I am not giving a months worth of ABs to Goins. If a guy who is supposed to be good has a bad season, so be it, but I am not letting Ryan f***ing Goins be my starting 2B on opening day.

 

You don't sign Russ Martin for 80 million to let a replacement player ruin 2nd base.

[Gorlak]

Pompey is already a speedy Cfer and is a great base runner /stealer and has an approach at the plate beyond his years. Pompey is a mature kid and his overall approach and preparation leads me to believe he's not going to hurt the team as the starting CFer while he goes through his MLB adaptation. Like you said, a solid starting LFer is more a priority and should not be difficult to obtain. I'd offer 2/25 to Markakis and see what happens. He'd be a nice #2 hitter versus RHP while providing solid defense in LF and can obviously slide into RF when Bautista DH's. Outfield defense of Pompey,Bautista and Markakis will be solid.

 

Agreed, Pompey isn't a sucker like Gose and Pillar are. He has a good enough floor to learn on the job.

[Gorlak]

If my job is on the line no matter what circumstance I am not giving a months worth of ABs to Goins. If a guy who is supposed to be good has a bad season, so be it, but I am not letting Ryan f***ing Goins be my starting 2B on opening day.

 

You don't sign Russ Martin for 80 million to let a replacement player ruin 2nd base.

 

If I want to win games, I don't give Goins any AB's.

[jayswin11]

Signing Martin is a sign that there is more to come, especially when you factor in the back loaded contract. 2 more FA's to come, now that the #1 pick is gone anyways. A LF and bullpen help is on the way.

[RIPEXPOS]

A Closer, and a LF or DH who can hit 5th and protect EE. That will be par. Anything beyond that would be gravy. Anything less and its no playoff baseball for bluejays once again.