Melky or Russel martin

[glory]

Wilner was just on the radio and he talked about the importance of pitch framing and how Navarro is not good in that area (it was in response to Russell Martin's availability). I don't really follow Wilner so maybe he's talked about it before, but that's the first I heard anyone in the Toronto media mentioning the importance of framing.

 

I'd like to think that AA told Wilner to say that in preparation for a Martin signing, but I know it will never happen. Just let me dream a little bit.

[ElNik2013]

I think he's had his eye on the 2016 season all along. The big deals he made in 2012 were geared to put a contender on the field for 3-4 years giving the farm some time to develop.

 

I don't really blame AA for the failure it's turned out to be. He put what (on paper) was a team that should have contended. It would have been hard for anyone to predict that all of Johnson,Romero,Morrow,Cieb,Izturis,Lawrie,Gose,Bonifacio,Santos,Happ, as well as a whole bunch of minor leaguers that were expected to at least provide decent depth, would completely s*** the bed.

 

I believe the trades were made to avoid being a bottom 5 team in all of baseball in 2013 and possibly even 2014 which would've meant lower attendance and tv ratings.

 

Putting butts on the seats and having eyes watching the games is part of running a successful organization although it can sometimes make you overpay in trades or FA or both, but it's part of what a management team is expected to do, at least the management of a team owned by the same people who own the TV broadcasting rights.

[Jimcanuck]

I think he's had his eye on the 2016 season all along. The big deals he made in 2012 were geared to put a contender on the field for 3-4 years giving the farm some time to develop.

 

The Dickey trade shoots down your theory

 

Jays already had a strong team after the Marlins trade

[ElNik2013]

That wouldn't make any sense unless he was planning on trading Bautista and Encarnacion. Another year older of an already small window.

 

 

True. If they were looking toward 2016, they would've been better off trading Bautista at the end of the 2012 season instead of making the Marlins and Dickey trades.

[ElNik2013]

The players traded for Dickey haven't exactly set the world on fire and wouldn't have done much if anything to a team designed to contend in the 2013-16 seasons. I don't think it was a good trade but it fit the plan as far as contending for the 2013-16 seasons. I think this board was waaaaay higher on Syndergaard and d'Arnaud than the front office was.

 

 

Don't think that was the case at all. If anything, after the Marlins trade, the FO thought adding an Ace would put them over the top. Especially since acquiring Dickey didn't increase payroll at all.

 

 

I do think they didn't want to punt 2013 and 2014 so they made the Marlins trade rather than going for the top 5 draft picks.

 

At the end of the day, they made inefficient trades, but they also avoided going into 2013 and 2014 as a bottom 5 team in all of MLB which is something this franchise doesn't "do".

[burlingtonbandit]

Wilner was just on the radio and he talked about the importance of pitch framing and how Navarro is not good in that area (it was in response to Russell Martin's availability). I don't really follow Wilner so maybe he's talked about it before, but that's the first I heard anyone in the Toronto media mentioning the importance of framing.

 

I'd like to think that AA told Wilner to say that in preparation for a Martin signing, but I know it will never happen. Just let me dream a little bit.

 

Wilner is only saying this because the Jays are linked to Martin. I actually called into Wilner's show last year and mentioned Martin specifically as a target because of pitch framing and Wilner said Navarro was doing a great great job behind the plate and he didn't think the Jays would need to make a change. Also said Martin isn't good offensively.

 

Wilner just says what is convenient at the time for the Jays and will always say the Jays made a good move, even if it was not a good one.

[ElNik2013]

I think he saw an opportunity to field a immediate contender and took a shot knowing full well that it would give him time to develop the farm and a good chance of having sustained success in the short and long term. Yes he had to give up some decent assets in order to field a contender but you can see how the teams been constructed to maintain that success.

 

Well, that's another way of saying what I said, so we're not really disagreeing here.

 

It's certainly true that the team's long term outlook has improved and the farm is arguably a top 10 system again. Farm could look even better if guys like Hoffman and Osuna show they're fully healthy after TJS; if Castro continues to rise (AA was recently quoted as saying he thinks they should've promoted much sooner than they did); if Nay takes a step forward; if Barreto continues to shine (I happen to think they should've promoted him to Lansing); if Jansen shows 2013 was no fluke, among other lower level suspects.

 

I've said it would make sense to go to 150M in payroll for 2015 instead of trading away the farm although we know some of the prospects will prove to have actually been suspects in a couple of years...we'll see what happens.

[Jimcanuck]

The players traded for Dickey haven't exactly set the world on fire and wouldn't have done much if anything to a team designed to contend in the 2013-16 seasons. I don't think it was a good trade but it fit the plan as far as contending for the 2013-16 seasons. I think this board was waaaaay higher on Syndergaard and d'Arnaud than the front office was.

 

The baseball community was high and still is high on Syndergaard and d'Arnaud. It was a dick move.

[Jimcanuck]

Well, that's another way of saying what I said, so we're not really disagreeing here.

 

It's certainly true that the team's long term outlook has improved and the farm is arguably a top 10 system again. Farm could look even better if guys like Hoffman and Osuna show they're fully healthy after TJS; if Castro continues to rise (AA was recently quoted as saying he thinks they should've promoted much sooner than they did); if Nay takes a step forward; if Barreto continues to shine (I happen to think they should've promoted him to Lansing); if Jansen shows 2013 was no fluke, among other lower level suspects.

 

I've said it would make sense to go to 150M in payroll for 2015 instead of trading away the farm although we know some of the prospects will prove to have actually been suspects in a couple of years...we'll see what happens.

 

Don't forget Tirado. He was top 5 or close to it a year ago. He'll start at Lansing and is a guy that could advance two levels in a single season.

[Jimcanuck]

I think the trading away the farm days are over for a while. AA has this team in pretty good shape. With a couple decent signings this winter,and 35-40m coming off the books (mostly being replaced by equal if not better talent from within for league min) after the 2015 season,it sets up nicely for a fairly smooth transition into 2016.

 

Not really. 2nd oldest team in baseball.

[CHRIS]

Not really. 2nd oldest team in baseball.

 

In part based on two starting pitchers who don't require youth-related attributes like velocity to succeed.

 

Other than Reyes, nothing too concerning, commitment-wise.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

f*** AA just sign him already! Rogers Marketing Team is waiting on you! f***ing Fat Bastard, step away from that meat on a stick and Get 'R' Done! Thank you, Please! There I even said please is that what you where waiting for?

[TheHurl]

[o2cui2i]

 

did anyone really think AA was going to be able to work this one out?

 

Maybe the players can pass a hat? Get AA out on Young street with a tin can and "bring Russell home" sign?

[SAAviour]

So much for losing out to players because we're a losing team.

[BTS]

C - Martin

1B - Rizzo

2B - Baez

3B - Valbuena

SS - Castro

RF - Soler

CF - Alcantara

LF - Bryant

 

Baez and Alcantara might suck, but that lineup is legit.

[glory]

I would imagine 5/80 would have gotten Martin if he's going for 4/64. Too bad.

[reedjohnsonfan]

McCann gets 5/85 time for Martin to switch agents.

[Stangstag]

McCann gets 5/85 time for Martin to switch agents.

 

McCann had more of DEM RIBBIES

[TheHurl]

C - Martin

1B - Rizzo

2B - Baez

3B - Valbuena

SS - Castro

RF - Soler

CF - Alcantara

LF - Bryant

 

Baez and Alcantara might suck, but that lineup is legit.

 

With two 2 win players from the previous year on the bench. That's a conservatively projected .251/.320/.420 starting 8 with Coghlin instead of Bryant in LF.

[TheHurl]

McCann had more of DEM RIBBIES

 

time to change the sig

[kgm1]

I would imagine 5/80 would have gotten Martin if he's going for 4/64. Too bad.

 

 

Much as i like Martin there is no way i give him 5/80. I said 4/60 but not surprised the Cubs went 4/64

[z3r0s]

If he wasn't going to the Jays, I'm glad is the Cubbies.

[Stangstag]

time to change the sig

 

Oh s*** yeah I forgot. Thx

[TheHurl]

 

plot twist

[burlingtonbandit]

 

plot twist

 

No way the Blue Jays would of signed Vmart. All they said about trading Lind would of been a Uturn.

[glory]

Much as i like Martin there is no way i give him 5/80. I said 4/60 but not surprised the Cubs went 4/64

 

Free agency means outbidding. The Jays aren't going to get him for four years if that's what a better situation is offering. They need to go five. They probably won't. As usual.

[flafson]

There is no way we would outbid anyone when the price is over 2 cents.

It's like AA being on a diet and pigs flying.

[Key22]

You know vesting options are something to look into. Most vesting options are based on games and innings played. If you are paying a guy because you think he will perform then adding one lousy year via a vesting option doesn't exactly kill you. If Martin performs well he will be the starting catcher - and if he performs for 4 years then he gets another. What's the downside? If he stinks it up in his age 35 season he won't be starting and the option doesn't vest making it a 4 year deal. If he is performing well at 35 chances are he will for one more year.

[Orgfiller]

 

plot twist

 

Lol @ the Tigers. They feared we'd overpay for the aging DH so they went ahead and did it before we could counter.