Adam Lind traded to Brewers for RHP Marco Estrada

[G-Snarls]

Long offseason... Jumping at the first offer seems pretty silly to me.

 

I'm sure AA called 29 GMs before making this deal

[Statman]

Long offseason... Jumping at the first offer seems pretty silly to me.

 

We don't know it was the first offer. What is the market for an injury prone platoon player, that plays the least valuable defensive position, that is on the wrong side of 30 anyways?

[ElNik2013]

Trading Lind needed to be done...and reality is Estrada was what the market offered. That's not a knock on AA but just the way it is.

 

Give me Estrada & say the $2.5m savings on say another reliever, I'd rather have that then Lind.

 

But will say the move makes much more sense once AA is able to fill out the lineup...

 

 

Several of us are hoping AA follows up this move by trading Happ for something useful plus the $aving$ and uses this money wisely to fill other spots. However, others are rightfully skeptical of AA being able to address the team's most pressing needs and let's face it, they have reason to be skeptical.

 

Also, too much focus on the BP is exactly the type of thing that many fans are afraid of.

 

Like you say, we'll have to give this time to see how the 3M (maybe 4M if you include the buy-out?) are spent.

 

 

I don't see how this trade couldn't still have been available a couple of weeks from now. However, there are some possible follow up moves that could help improve the club.

[G-Snarls]

And maybe Lind did have to go

 

Edwin is also a liability at 1B and so finding an ideal platoon situation with a third guy is not easy. If you found a better overall player you don't need Lind at all. If you get a 4th OF type who's good and RH hitting then you still always have a poor defender at 1B.

 

I'm still not happy with the trade but I kind of understand why AA wanted to deal him. Because obviously Edwin is staying.

 

Ultimately it depends on what he does the rest of the off season, his this will be judged.

[ElNik2013]

I'm sure AA called 29 GMs before making this deal

 

 

This is probably true. However, AA said clearly that they were either gonna trade him now or decline his option which indicates that they put themselves in a corner when they could've picked up the option and given it more time.

 

Maybe some possible trade partners were waiting to see if the Jays would decline or pick up the option before showing any interest.

[Deadpool]

We don't know it was the first offer. What is the market for an injury prone platoon player, that plays the least valuable defensive position, that is on the wrong side of 30 anyways?

 

I dunno, what does 3.4 fWAR over the past 2 seasons on a not-unreasonable contract cost? I guess a swing-man that's the same age and put up a 1.3 fWAR over the same period...

[Jimcanuck]

Long offseason... Jumping at the first offer seems pretty silly to me.

 

AA's plan for the offseason seems to involve creating financial flexibility early.... who knows what the plan is, but I expect we will see a lot of moves.

[John_Havok]

I logged in from my vacation to check on things and I see that pile of crap trade.

 

f*** this, I'm going back to the beach and drown myself in rum.

[Statman]

AA's plan for the offseason seems to involve creating financial flexibility early.... who knows what the plan is, but I expect we will see a lot of moves.

 

Agree.Shedding Lind, Rasmus, Morrow, McGowan, Janssen and Santos is actually a sign to me that AA knows what he is doing. I also expect some surprising moves that will greatly improve this team.

[leaffie]

This is probably true. However, AA said clearly that they were either gonna trade him now or decline his option which indicates that they put themselves in a corner when they could've picked up the option and given it more time.

 

Maybe some possible trade partners were waiting to see if the Jays would decline or pick up the option before showing any interest.

more from north of the border.

 

•FOXSports’ Ken Rosenthal tweets that the White Sox were also interested in Lind but did not make a substantial offer. I’m not surprised the Sox did not match the Brewers’ offer. With the possible exception of Dayan Viciedo, the White Sox don’t possess a player like Estrada, i.e. an established major leaguer coming off a disappointing season.

[Statman]

I dunno, what does 3.4 fWAR over the past 2 seasons on a not-unreasonable contract cost? I guess a swing-man that's the same age and put up a 1.3 fWAR over the same period...

 

I willing to bet that GM's around the league viewed Lind's salary as another major deterrent that killed return for him

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

What I can't understand is, is Estrada even better then our internal options for what we will pay him? Graveman/Jenkins / Nolin etc or the declined 4 mill on McGowan even? If you just decline Lind you would have saved more money then by doing the sign and trade! Not sure how this is better when trying to create more payroll flexibility this way. Edited November 2, 2014 by BigBounceyBlueBalls

[Statman]

What I can't understand is, is Estrada even better then or internal options for what we will pay him? Graveman/Jenkins / Nolin etc or the declined 4 mill on McGowan even? If you just decline Lind you would have saved more money then by doing the sign and trade! Not sure how this is better when trying to create more payroll flexibility this way.

 

If this is AA's way of blowing his load on his bullpen fetish for 2014 I'm ok with that.

[SantosLHalper21]

Estrada offers a game similar to that of Drew Hutchison in terms of WAR/fWAR, but it looks like according to the fat greek that he'll be starting out of the bullpen. With better control than that of Happ, I'm actually quite surprised by that comment. With the likes of Graveman, Jenkins, and Redmond around, long relief is pretty much taken care of. Estrada isn't a back end of the bullpen kind of guy either.

 

The only way I can make sense of this move is that the Jays intend on moving him. He doesn't fit anywhere on this team to be honest with all of you. Leads me to believe this is simply an asset acquisition.

[DavyJones]

This is a horrible, horrible trade.

 

AA has gotta go.

[Hawkins]

What I can't understand is, is Estrada even better then or internal options for what we will pay him? Graveman/Jenkins / Nolin etc or the declined 4 mill on McGowan even? If you just decline Lind you would have saved more money then by doing the sign and trade! Not sure how this is better when trying to create more payroll flexibility this way.

If he would have declined Linds option he would have had to pay 1 million to have him walk. By making the trade he has the option to offer arbitration to none tendering Estrada for free. If he was truely going to decline the option this was a good move.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

No, This is a horrible sign and trade! Lol

[Statman]

This is a horrible, horrible trade.

 

Not really. Lind is a back ache away from going on an extended DL stint who hinders payroll and roster flexibility in favour of hitting for afridge against RHP the last two years.

[KingKat]

AA's plan for the offseason seems to involve creating financial flexibility early.... who knows what the plan is, but I expect we will see a lot of moves.

 

I don't really see a ton of financial flexibility though. Smoak and Estrada aren't that cheap and Happ's option was picked up. Unless Estrada is there specifically to facilitate a Happ trade, the moves don't create any real financial flexibility. Right now all I see less wins for about the same money but of course it's still early. I like that AA is at least pro-active about re-assigning payroll, something he didn't do nearly enough of in other off-seasons. If all these little moves end up facilitating a big upgrade somewhere, it will pay off. Otherwise, it's just re-arranging the deck chairs.

[RealAccountant]

What I can't understand is, is Estrada even better then our internal options for what we will pay him? =.

 

Yes. Yes he is. He really is.

[saskjayfan]

Not really. Lind is a back ache away from going on an extended DL stint who hinders payroll and roster flexibility in favour of hitting for afridge against RHP the last two years.

 

Lind had one 15 dl stint due to a back injury this year and last year did not have a dl stint due to his back and missed about 5 games. He missed 2 months this year due to a broken foot...his back hasn't caused him to miss that much time.

[RealAccountant]

This is a good deal. Lind is overrated. Aside from all the constant nagging injuries, Estrada is a decent arm that is at least Happ's superior.

[RealAccountant]

Lind had one 15 dl stint due to a back injury this year and last year did not have a dl stint due to his back and missed about 5 games. He missed 2 months this year due to a broken foot...his back hasn't caused him to miss that much time.

 

If its not his back its something else. Lind has been tremendously overrated by this fanbase. Fact is that Lind has never been worth more than 2 WAR in the last 5 years.

[Statman]

Lind had one 15 dl stint due to a back injury this year and last year did not have a dl stint due to his back and missed about 5 games. He missed 2 months this year due to a broken foot...his back hasn't caused him to miss that much time.

 

Why do you only disclose his last two years? What his injury history discloses even up to this year is CHRONIC lower back problems even as a part time player which has reduced his workload at least 50% over the last two years. That is a major red flag. Chronic back problems makes Lind very high risk for injury EVERY YEAR especially if he is playing 1st base on a part time basis. His injury history throughout his career supports that too.

[AdamGreenwood]

Thinking about it.

 

The Blue Jays acquire a flyball pitcher in a ballpark known for easy home runs.

The Brewers acquire a 1st baseman better suited for DH, due to health issues and poor defense.

 

Both players are a poor fit for their new teams. Both GM's are atrocious.

[ElNik2013]

more from north of the border.

 

•FOXSports’ Ken Rosenthal tweets that the White Sox were also interested in Lind but did not make a substantial offer. I’m not surprised the Sox did not match the Brewers’ offer. With the possible exception of Dayan Viciedo, the White Sox don’t possess a player like Estrada, i.e. an established major leaguer coming off a disappointing season.

 

 

You would think Lind would be more valuable to a team in the AL so maybe he DID NOT have that much value and we're are all just plain wrong in thinking that they should've gotten more for him.

[ElNik2013]

I don't really see a ton of financial flexibility though. Smoak and Estrada aren't that cheap and Happ's option was picked up. Unless Estrada is there specifically to facilitate a Happ trade, the moves don't create any real financial flexibility. Right now all I see less wins for about the same money but of course it's still early. I like that AA is at least pro-active about re-assigning payroll, something he didn't do nearly enough of in other off-seasons. If all these little moves end up facilitating a big upgrade somewhere, it will pay off. Otherwise, it's just re-arranging the deck chairs.

 

 

This is the key for me. If in fact, they end up finding a taker for Happ and his 6.7Mish salary and get anything in return on top of it, then you'd have created about 10M in payroll room. Then we'd have to see how they'd allocate that $ so let's see how this plays out.

[Sorrow]

I wasn't opposed to moving Lind if it gives us better payroll and positional flexibility. Being able to DH EE, Lawrie, Bautista, Reyes and Cabrera if he's re-signed once a week would certainly help keep them fresh. I'm not a huge Estrada fan but it's not a completely s*** trade. He has had decent xFIPs the past few years.

[Chappy]

Another trade almost has to happen I think. Right now we have the following rotational depth: Dickey, Buehrle, Stroman, Hutch, Happ, Estrada, Hendricks, Sanchez, Nolin, and Norris. I'm not sure if I left anyone else out, but I think rotation wise we are in great shape and could definitely part with one arm now. Maybe even two if we get an upgrade to the rotation.

[o2cui2i]

http://s2.postimg.org/xsw7lyhsp/aa_beest.jpg