SantosLHalper21

There are trades too. They could conceivably trade Edwin, Dickey, Thole (about 24-25 million right there in salary) and acquire young, cheap talented prospects for them. I'm sure a team like the Astros could really elevate themselves with a bat like Edwin in the middle of that lineup and could use the experience that Dickey provides. Starters like Mark Appel, Lance McCullers, Mike Feliz, Francis Martes are bound to interest the Jays as well as SS Alex Bregman. If Edwin can come with an extension in place in a sign and trade...you never know. Who knows though..knowing Shapiro's track record of gauging the Indians, he could deal all of them for Carlos Carrasco..but I'm grasping at straws on that one.

Dalton Pompey stole two bases, and Pillar was given 2nd. If Pompey wasn't in the game...do you really think Martin would've stolen those bases? Do you think Pillar is bunting. Fact is..if they played better small-ball throughout the game, the Jays wouldn't of needed the 9th inning comeback attempt. They screwed up with Revere at 2nd nobody out in inning 1, and Goins had runners on and couldn't bunt them over...and many other times. Good pitching will always beat good hitting...maybe I'm trying to think of ways the Jays can score more cheap runs rather than having to walk and plug up the bases and hope for a home run. Use your heads.

Lol...Their pitching was not the problem after the deadline, neither was their defence. And neither was their hitting for that matter. The Cecil injury hurt us huge. This team was primed for a World Series berth, but their unwillingness to play small ball and do the little things right got them an ALCS loss. 0 for 12 with RISP and an unwillingness to bunt, move runners over, and relying on power to win resulted in them losing. All I'm proposing is moving Donaldson into a position to drive in more runs.....really..you guys are f***ing making way too much out of this. This will result in the Jays scoring more runs, putting more pressure on opposing pitchers and defence's yet you think I shouldn't f*** around with anything. You guys sound like Gibbons.

And? Where did all of those teams finish? Not in the playoffs...maybe because they didn't hit more non-solo shots? Maybe that would've helped. The difference is the Jays lineup 1-9 is much better than those 3 teams. The Royals had 6/9 hitters with OBP over .340. Toronto had 3 (5 if you count Colabello who was used every other day, and Revere who arrived for 220 AB's). Good pitching will always beat good hitting...maybe I'm just thinking outside the box in hopes this team can score more runs when the pitching is good....but yeah..I'm spewing blasphemy and I don't know anything.

If the Jays can't make adjustments to the bullpen and rotation, my order would make some sense. If AA improves the bullpen, brings in another good lefty, and another veteran righty, and signs up Estrada/Price/Leake (example)...then the Jays order can stay the same. I don't see anyone beating them. And btw...what adjustment did the Royals make this year that made their offence real hard to beat? And for that matter, they also adjusted their rotation. They went from having Billy Butler/Nori Aoki/Infante to having Morales/Rios/Zobrist....and they went from having Aoki hitting 2nd to Zobrist, Morales hitting 5th. They also replaced Jason Vargas and Jeremy Guthrie in their playoff rotation with Volquez and Cueto. They also lost Shields and replaced him with Young. So the rotation might be kind of a wash. But you see what I'm getting at...that team went to the World Series and saw their issues and addressed them. Do you not think that maybe making their offence a little more dynamic and dangerous would be in the Jays best interest? Use the players they have like they're supposed to. Look what happened to the Yankees with Ellsbury and Gardner, who finished each with their lowest SB totals of their careers in a full season. The Yankees relied on the long ball, but the difference between the Jays and them was the Jays had a much better starting rotation and a much better lineup top to bottom. The Yankees bullpen was filthy 7/8/9. That team lost in game 7 of the World Series.

You have the same problem the Jays have now. Fact is in a perfect world Donaldson/Jose/Edwin should hit in the first inning 1,2,3 seeing as how they're our best OBP players...but sadly..they are middle of the order bats...and they should hit there.

Those are just Solo Home runs games where he finished with a HR and an RBI. I looked into it...28/41 of his HR's were solo blasts. Sorry..but he's a middle of the order bat. He hit so many first inning home runs with nobody on this year..I think he led the league.

Josh Donaldson hit 20/41 Homers this year which we solo shots (those were just games he finished with 1 HR and 1 RBI). I'm sure there were more games where he hit a solo shot and got ANOTHER RBI later. Half of his home runs..at least..came with nobody on. Sorry..but him hitting 4th would allow him to drive in more runs. Yeah..he might see 50 less at bats, but so what I don't have a problem if that means he hits more non-solo home runs. And who knows about Travis...maybe he finishes the year with 600 AB's and a .340 OBP if he was healthy. The kid can hit and has drawn comparisons to Dustin Pedroia for a reason. You guys are so negative its sickening.

Travis .361 Donaldson .371 percentage points different. Travis isn't a guy like Goins with a .290 OBP, Travis was .361 OBP and a Rookie of the Year Candidate before he went down with injury. AND, he was playing injured for a portion of the year and his hitting took a hit as a result. Honestly, I think this allows the Jays to score at least a run more per game, and puts more pressure on the opposing teams' defence and pitching having Pillar/Revere using their speed and Travis doing what he does best, driving the ball opposite field and moving runners so the thunder can drive in the runs.

sigh..I'm not talking about everyone bunting and everyone stealing bases. All I'm really proposing is moving out small ball portion of the lineup from 8,9,1 (Pillar/Travis(or Goins)/Revere) to 9, 1, 2 (Pillar, Revere, Travis (or Goins)). We play ball the same way, we just give the players who have speed...more of an opportunity to use it. If we don't get a hit in the 1st, we open the 2nd with Donaldson ( a decent contact hitter who gets on base and hits with power), followed by Edwin, Tulo, and Colabello...really I don't see the issue.

why is it you think me switching the order is blasphemy? I'm proposing an order that allows us to score even more runs...and I don't care so much about our record in 1-run games...its the record when we score 4 or less runs that concerns me. Fact is..if the Jays scored 5 runs in game 6, we'd be having a game 7. Their 0 for 12 with RISP concerned me, the fact if they don't hit a HR in a game, they have a crappy record too. Sorry, but what I want is a more balanced lineup that will allow the Jays to play small ball and long ball all in 1 shot. I just don't get why you think this is outrageous...I honestly don't see the problem.

And our record in 1-run games? 13-35. When scoring 4 or less runs? like 15-50 and 0-6 in the postseason. This is basically an order that will allow us to use our speed and score EVEN more runs when the pitching is getting good..it allows us to still hit power home runs, but also allows us to play small ball when we have to. The way the order was set up this year, the only chance for small ball happened at the bottom of the order. Why not try it at the top of the order instead? Seeing as how they get more at bats. Just my thoughts

I just say this because this team just cannot play small ball. When the pitching is tough and they get a break or two, they can't do anything with it. Their record in 1-run games and when scoring 4 or less runs is brutal. They were 0-6 this post season when scoring 4 or less runs. I think they need to move Donaldson out of the two hole and into a position where he can drive in EVEN MORE runs. My thoughts were to move a contact hitter into the 2 hole instead of a power hitter. This is where I see Devon Travis hitting..or even Ryan Goins. I think not only does it bode well for us, but it also allows Revere to do what he does best...use his speed. For the life of me, I dunno how a guy who stole at least 30 bags a season in his career just did not run at all with the Jays. He's just as fast and dangerous on the bases as Pompey given the chance, but because where he hit, he usually remained at the base he hit to so Donaldson/Bautista/Edwin could hit homers without the threat of Revere getting thrown out. The order I'm proposing in hopes it can give us that extra push.. Ben Revere Devon Travis (he hit leadoff for us for awhile) Jose Bautista Josh Donaldson Edwin Encarnacion Troy Tulowitzki Chris Colabello/Justin Smoak Russell Martin Kevin Pillar To me, this is more of a lineup built in a similar fashion to the Royals lineup. Two good contact hitters at the top of the lineup....the power 3-7, and then 8-9. Luckily for us we got Pillar hitting 9th..not only does his speed help Revere out..but it also allows us to play small ball effectively if say Pillar gets on 1st with a walk. We could hit and run, steal a base with Pillar...get into second. Get Revere to bunt over and you have Travis/Bautista to drive in a runner from 3rd with 1 out. I just believe having Donaldson at the 2nd spot is very risky. When he's hitting well...he's driving Revere in with homers and extra base hits, but when he's not hitting (which is a real possibility seeing as how he failed 70% of the time this year)...Revere isn't running, the Jays are not scoring. Thoughts on the new order?

I don't care that he's an adult....if that's the case and you're using that as an excuse, Tulo's an adult and should know how to take care of himself, then he didn't need the day off either. Sometimes you have to think of the crap a guy has went through the past 24 hours and put that into consideration. I have no problem using Lowe today...just not in a high leverage situation. Let him get his feet wet with a new organization in a pressure free situation first. Management also thought it was a good idea to have Cecil as a closer, have Castro as a closer as a 20 year old, have Loup as a late inning arm to face righties and lefties, and who can forget our 5th starter slot...I think management knows the players about as well as we do frankly, possibly worse.

What is idiotic about it dipshit? Lowe was not the freshest arm the Jays had if you include getting dealt the day prior. Buerhle probably could've been left in there further seeing as how he was at 90 pitches and we still had Hawkins and Loup who were fresher arms. As for Tulo at DH, if you want to give him a day off defensively..fine, but you need that bat in the lineup. Same goes for Edwin, he could've played 1B today and given swing and miss Smoak a rest. But again...I'm the idiot? Beat it meat