I'm Getting that Aaron Hill feeling with JP Arencibia

[John_Havok]

Sure some long posts to simply say not likely going to happen. JP is half retard. Hill is not

 

It's hard to hold back when there's actually people out there in favour of keeping JPA based on flawed arguments and nothing more than pie in the sky hopes.

[Jays]

pie in the sky

 

haha, ironically, the last time I heard those words was when AA was describing how the Marlins trade happened. And we all know how that worked out.

[agrushcow]

Regardless of whether he's gonna bite us, you can't bring that guy back no matter what. It's nonsensical, plenty of guys need a change of scenery and it simply wasn't gonna work here.

[admin]

Zaun made a great point the other day. He said pretty much every guy in baseball could go out there and hit 20+ HR if that was the only thing they tried to do, it's not that hard to do. But when you strike out, don't walk, and barely get any other hits, that's not helping anyone.

 

In three years he has a .212/.258 line, and is terribly defensively.

 

Aaron Hill was an all star with Toronto, and one for some years he was one of the best defensive 2B in the league.

 

You can't even compare the two players. Hill has shown potential. JPA hasn't shown anything. Nothing at all.

 

It's the front office's own fault. They could have fixed JPA, worked with him, and they chose to do nothing at all.

To be fair, sure maybe someone can come along and work with him and rebuild him from scratch, maybe he can still have a career. But if he goes and does that somewhere, I'll be okay with it, because he's had his chance here.

[fatcowxlive]

Nope nope nope. Hill had multiple good seasons, and even when he was s***, had two good skillsets: Defense and Baserunning

 

Hill was destroyed by Murphy's "Pull dat ball" mindset instead of being the line drive hitter he was. Arencibia is the same (and he was improving at some point) since coming from AAA, and not once (excluding his career debut) did I think he was good. Hill was a GG caliber All-Star, Arencibia is a twitter allstar

[Jays]

J.P. Arencibia stood in the clubhouse and glanced at a television program that was ranking baseball's top 10 catchers.

 

After only one full season in the major leagues, he feels he already belongs in that class.

 

"I see myself in it right now. I don't care what anyone has to say," Arencibia said. "Not a lot of catchers have done what I've done in my first year, and it's only going to get better."

 

 

 

A little piece of history.

[admin]

Is that real? Because that sounds like something we would make up, making fun of him lol

[Jays]

Is that real? Because that sounds like something we would make up, making fun of him lol

 

It's real, that's where the top 10 catcher thing came from. Wonder what he thinks about that now.

[GNick]

After the Jays declined their option on JP Arencibia, the wheels got turning and I got this bad feeling JP Arencibia may come back to bite the Jays in the rear end and end up turning his career around somewhere else.

 

Yes he's a bad game caller and yes he needs work defensively, but to be honest, that can all be worked on. With the proper defensive coach, Arencibia could be an average defender anywhere in the majors.

 

As for his bat, much like Hill who couldn't hit a beach ball in his final year with the Jays, Arencibia struck-out more times than Pee-Wee Herman at the Playboy Mansion.

 

Like Hill, Arencibia was a first-round draft pick with loads of potential, and both can be argued, were given up on far too soon. Both batted near or below the Mendoza line in their final year with the Jays and after that, were given up on. At least with Hill, the Jays were able to fetch a decent asset in Kelly Johnson, who elected to bail on the team as a free agent.

 

I'm hoping he finds the right set of coaches to properly help him along the way.

 

I'm not predicting all-star numbers, but I can seriously see a .240 avg with 30 HR and 85+ RBI's with the right set of coaches. I sincerely hope for the best with him, but I'm getting this bad feeling we may be giving up on him too soon. From catcher of the future, to nothing in one season...seems very peculiar.

You never know...a year ago Gomes was way behind Arencibia look how he turned out once left here?

[Angrioter]

J.P. Arencibia stood in the clubhouse and glanced at a television program that was ranking baseball's top 10 catchers.

 

After only one full season in the major leagues, he feels he already belongs in that class.

 

"I see myself in it right now. I don't care what anyone has to say," Arencibia said. "Not a lot of catchers have done what I've done in my first year, and it's only going to get better."

 

 

 

A little piece of history.

 

 

#ArencibiaLine

[Dick_Pole]

When people talk about his 20 HR, they are forgetting he hit like half of those in the first 3-4 weeks. JPA's full 2013 season was historically bad. JPA's last 300 plate appearances were much, much worse. It's debatable whether he can hit 20 home runs - can he even make contact 20 times a year anymore? That's only half sarcastic.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if he has vision issues that are getting worse with time and he's too stupid/arrogant to get it checked out. The way he flails at a pitch when trying to catch it leads me to believe he has problems with depth perception. Now that's affecting his hitting as well. If this is what it ends up being the problem and some other team fixes it, I 100% agree with Hurl's cleaning house comment above

[Dick_Pole]

I would not be shocked to see Arencibia hit 30 homeruns or have a Napoli type season. But that will take a change his ultimate approach. One thing for sure he isn't an everday catcher. And he isn't a full time 1B or DH. So right now he has no fit. If he goes somewhere like Texas and gets regular at-bats 20+ homeruns easy. But where is he going to play? And what are the rest of his numbers look like. He provides negative value his homeruns don't mean all much when he isn't hitting anything else or getting on base.

 

I think it's about time you change your avatar given that he's gone....really getting sick of seeing that guy's squinting, mouth-open dumbassed look every time you post.

[wilko]

This thread is full of lulz.

[bbb44]

After the Jays declined their option on JP Arencibia, the wheels got turning and I got this bad feeling JP Arencibia may come back to bite the Jays in the rear end and end up turning his career around somewhere else.

 

Yes he's a bad game caller and yes he needs work defensively, but to be honest, that can all be worked on. With the proper defensive coach, Arencibia could be an average defender anywhere in the majors.

 

As for his bat, much like Hill who couldn't hit a beach ball in his final year with the Jays, Arencibia struck-out more times than Pee-Wee Herman at the Playboy Mansion.

 

Like Hill, Arencibia was a first-round draft pick with loads of potential, and both can be argued, were given up on far too soon. Both batted near or below the Mendoza line in their final year with the Jays and after that, were given up on. At least with Hill, the Jays were able to fetch a decent asset in Kelly Johnson, who elected to bail on the team as a free agent.

 

I'm hoping he finds the right set of coaches to properly help him along the way.

 

I'm not predicting all-star numbers, but I can seriously see a .240 avg with 30 HR and 85+ RBI's with the right set of coaches. I sincerely hope for the best with him, but I'm getting this bad feeling we may be giving up on him too soon. From catcher of the future, to nothing in one season...seems very peculiar.

Best of luck to JPA but unlike Hill JPA has no positives or history of being even decent on the defensive side of the game ( in my opinion the most important part of a catcher )

He has had some positive qualities at the plate with HRs and some clutch hits but he has many downfalls to at the plate like his striking out and his average and OBP .

 

Hill had shown he could do all these things in the past when he got traded but had started to struggle in toronto for a few seasons and needed a change

[JugglingPitches]

JPA will not ever turn it around. He's going to stay at exactly the same level of play he's at now, wind up in AAA and likely stay there the rest of his career, except maybe as an occassional call up if there are injuries.

 

And, on the off chance that he does improve...I don't care. I've never watched a Jays game and rooted for one of our own players to fail before...but this guy had me doing it. He could turn into Miguel Cabrera and I'd still want him nowhere near our team.

[crmr]

I can see him improving some at DH, but he wont ever be a great player....

 

Might fluke his way to a career 30 hr season as his peak if given many opportunities (If you were looking for the most likely case, its that hes released by August)

[Olerud363]

And we're back to new threads based on random personal opinions..not actual topics. Awesome

 

?? This confuses me. Why is this not a topic??

 

The poster is bringing up a subject -- Will J.P. Arencibia improve after leaving the Jays?

 

Answer: Almost Certainly. If he hits .230 that will be a big improvement.

 

Will J.P. Arencibia improve enough to make us regret giving up on him??

 

Answer: Probably not. But he could...

 

If "random personal opinions" are not actual topics then I suggest automating the entire board. It really isn't a message board you guys are looking for. It's an rss feed using mlb trade rumours and a couple of other sites, then a twitter style comment section, with a comment limit of 60 words or less.

 

Send your suggestion to the admins. Ask them to change the software such that users cannot start topic (all topics that the regular crew seems to like can easily be generated using a feed). Then comments on the topics be limited to 60 words.

[G-Snarls]

Is it too late to counter this thread title with:

 

"I'm getting that Travis Snider feeling with JP Arencibia"

 

#FailedProspects

[Olerud363]

Oh my.............

 

I would say this type of season is well within JPs reach.

 

His 550 at bat average is .212 .258 .408 with 27 homers and 82 rbis.

 

There is no question he could hit .240 in a given year. There is no question he could have 30 homers and 80 rbis. He couldn't do it every year. That would be his good year, with a lot of playing time in a hitters park.

 

Even with those numbers he wouldn't be a great player when you factor in on base + defense. Maybe a 2 win player.

[Olerud363]

Is it too late to counter this thread title with:

 

"I'm getting that Travis Snider feeling with JP Arencibia"

 

#FailedProspects

 

It's a good counterpoint. The problem with JP is even worse. Snider's potential (based on minor league numbers and age 21/22 seasons) was still huge. Middle of the order hitter if you project using milb numbers, early mlb numbers, and some development between 23 and 27. J.P. is 28 next year. So he is what he is (not a prospect).

 

With a lot of playing time he could still rack up the rbis. If they spot him right, and he had some luck he could hit .290 with 20 homers in 250 at bats.

 

Those things could happen because anything can happen, lord knows. Doesn't mean it was a bad move to get rid of him.

[Olerud363]

If JP has a lower than 20% k-rate wherever he ends up...the Jays should fire every single person in their org from top to bottom. I'm talking about PA announcers in Dunedin, guy sweeping the bird s*** in Vancouver. Just a cleaning of the system

 

His k-bb ratio is about 5.5 to 1. If it is 3-1 same applies. Everyone gets fired. If he strikes out 180 times in 500 at bats, but walks 60... that would say something as well.

[Olerud363]

Oh don't get your panties in a bunch. You're as much an "armchair expert" as anyone here. I think the point that people have in their approval; of JPA hitting the bricks is that he just put up one of the worst season's in the history of the game. Do you know how many qualified seasons have been played so far in the history of MLB? Tens of thousands. JPA was one of the worst... in the tens of thousands of qualified seasons of baseball. It was his 3rd full year, and he's not a "youngster." going into next year he will be 28, that's typically not an age where a guy suddenly changes everything about his game and becomes good. And even if it were the case where a team wants to take a chance and work with him, you sure as hell don't do it in a year where your team believes(rightly or wrongly) that they are trying to make a push for the playoffs. You also don't want a guy around who shoots his mouth off to the media just because they criticize his play and tell everyone in the world that you are speaking on behalf of the whole team especially when he's in the middle of, just in case you missed it earlier, one of the worst seasons in the history of major league baseball.

 

Can he be better? Sure. It's practically impossible to be worse... and whatever team that might pick him up, I say good luck.

 

As a rookie J.P. walks 36 times, struck out 133, 2 years later walked 18 and struck out 148. He didn't walk much then lost half his walks anyway.

 

There are 2 possibilities.

 

1. The organization is retarded -- they gave him what they thought was good instruction. Pull that ball, be aggressive, more aggressive.

 

In this case keeping him wouldn't of helped anyway, because the organization would keep giving him the same stupid advice. J.P. goes somewhere else... if he does improve it might be annother step to finally ending the Beeston Regime.

 

2. J.P. is retarded -- the advice he got was fine. He's just retarded and wanted more dingers to get chicks.

 

in this case it was the right move to let him go.

 

Either way right move.

[KingKat]

Is it too late to counter this thread title with:

 

"I'm getting that Travis Snider feeling with JP Arencibia"

 

#FailedProspects

 

That's a very interesting comparison. Why would someone be comfortable writing off Snider and not Arencibia when Snider is the younger player and was the much better prospect both in terms of prospect rankings and statistical performance. "I'm getting that Aaron Hill feeling with Travis Snider" is a more justifiable statement than the orginal although neither really makes sense because Aaron Hill had a far superior Major League track record than either Snider or JPA.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

I don't care how he plays elsewhere, getting rid of him was the right move because there was zero indication of him ever being anything more than an arrogant, delusional bust in Toronto.

[bzapple]

?? This confuses me. Why is this not a topic??

 

The poster is bringing up a subject -- Will J.P. Arencibia improve after leaving the Jays?

 

Answer: Almost Certainly. If he hits .230 that will be a big improvement.

 

Will J.P. Arencibia improve enough to make us regret giving up on him??

 

Answer: Probably not. But he could...

 

If "random personal opinions" are not actual topics then I suggest automating the entire board. It really isn't a message board you guys are looking for. It's an rss feed using mlb trade rumours and a couple of other sites, then a twitter style comment section, with a comment limit of 60 words or less.

 

I think what he's saying is that it's annoying when people just post rants on whatever thought or theory happens to be in their head at the time, without backing it up with evidence or taking other viewpoints into account. The topic may be legitimate here, but it was very poorly executed.

[Olerud363]

I think what he's saying is that it's annoying when people just post rants on whatever thought or theory happens to be in their head at the time, without backing it up with evidence or taking other viewpoints into account. The topic may be legitimate here, but it was very poorly executed.

 

I suppose it wasn't executed that well.

 

Legit and interesting question though. Is it JP?? Or is it the Blue jays?? As a couple of people pointed out it will be interesting if JP rebounds with another team... especially if he has an improved k/bb...

[G-Snarls]

Legit and interesting question though. Is it JP?? Or is it the Blue jays?? As a couple of people pointed out it will be interesting if JP rebounds with another team... especially if he has an improved k/bb...

 

Tell me JP gets better on a new team and I'll remind you that Edwin and Bautista got better on this one, and that Snider has continued to stink in Pittsburgh.

 

I don't buy the theory that there's a serious systemic flaw in our system. Room for improvement, yes, but manageable.

[bzapple]

I suppose it wasn't executed that well.

 

Legit and interesting question though. Is it JP?? Or is it the Blue jays?? As a couple of people pointed out it will be interesting if JP rebounds with another team... especially if he has an improved k/bb...

 

Whether it's JP himself or the Blue Jays coaching (probably some of each), it's still really difficult to see him being much use at this point. There are just such fundamental flaws in his hitting and he's not young anymore. Perhaps he could be somewhat useful in a part time role (above replacement level), but I seriously doubt he lasts as a starter anywhere.

[Sammy225]

Whether it's JP himself or the Blue Jays coaching (probably some of each), it's still really difficult to see him being much use at this point. There are just such fundamental flaws in his hitting and he's not young anymore. Perhaps he could be somewhat useful in a part time role (above replacement level), but I seriously doubt he lasts as a starter anywhere.

 

I thought I heard something throughout the year that he was unwilling to change his approach at the plate so I really don't think that it has too much to do with the coaching staff.

[bzapple]

I thought I heard something throughout the year that he was unwilling to change his approach at the plate so I really don't think that it has too much to do with the coaching staff.

 

I'm more thinking back to the FDM days.