Jays targetting Jeff Samardzija and/or Ryan Hanigan

[ElNik2013]

I wouldn't have ever tagged him an ace. IMO an ace tag is earned over an extended period of excellence....a year or two of solid pitching doesn't do it for me.

 

 

Too bad AA didn't take this into account when he paid so dearly for him. In fact, he said at the time that that was the price of getting a #1 starter. Oh well too late now, a direction has been taken by the franchise and they seem intent on staying this course.

[Chappy]

Too bad AA didn't take this into account when he paid so dearly for him. In fact, he said at the time that that was the price of getting a #1 starter. Oh well too late now, a direction has been taken by the franchise and they seem intent on staying this course.

 

A lot had to do with the fact that Dickey signed a very team friendly contract. I know we gave up a lot in the deal and I would never have made that deal obviously, but part of AA's thinking on this much have been cost control. Dickey at $12M per is a solid contract.

 

I get that everyone hates what we gave up last winter, but its really time to stop dwelling on it because its pointless.

[GeorgiaPeach]

That's a valid point. I never expected him to come into our division and be an ace, but I did think he would be better than what he performed. The second half was more in line with what I was hoping to get out of him, so if he can give us something reasonably close to that type of production in 2014, I think that would be fine.

 

I didn't consider him an ace in NY. And as for going forward, sure there's a good chance he outperforms 2013. But to reiterate, the man is 40...close to 40. Even Rickey Henderson & Nolan Ryan were aged out of the game and they were in phenomenal shape. Dickey's an old man in baseball years.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I get that everyone hates what we gave up last winter, but its really time to stop dwelling on it because its pointless.

 

True. But if we continue down a similar path the team and most of the fan base are in for a Rude Awakening very soon.

[jaysblue]

I just hope Rasmus isn't a part of the deal if something like this goes down. I would much rather extend him and move Gose.

 

I think Rasmus would have to be included unfortunately if Bailey were involved, unless the Jays decided to move Bautista instead. I could see the Jays dealing Rasmus if AA knows that he doesn't want to sign an extension here.

[jaysblue]

I wouldn't have ever tagged him an ace. IMO an ace tag is earned over an extended period of excellence....a year or two of solid pitching doesn't do it for me.

 

There were a lot of posters on here fapping about how Dickey was an ace and one of the best pitchers in baseball last offseason.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I didn't consider him an ace in NY. And as for going forward, sure there's a good chance he outperforms 2013. But to reiterate, the man is 40...close to 40. Even Rickey Henderson & Nolan Ryan were aged out of the game and they were in phenomenal shape. Dickey's an old man in baseball years.

 

You need to do better research. Knuckleballers last longer. Phil Neikro pitched effectively until age 47, and was 5th in Cy Young voting at age 43.

Nolan Ryan depended on velocity. If you are going to start comparing people at least make some attempt to be relevant. Otherwise, you are just

another complainer on here. So he's 4 years younger then Phil was on a great season. I suppose you need to look up Charlie Hough and Tim Wakefield

too, I haven't looked to see how old they were when they hit the wall but that's where you need to start. Rickey Henderson ? What the heck does a

base stealing outfielder have to do with a knuckleball pitcher ?

 

I can see you when Phil Neikro was 39. "the man is 40 ... close to 40. You might get one ok year out of him now". Eight years later he's still a solid back of the rotation starter, four years later he was an ace on his team.

[Chappy]

I think Rasmus would have to be included unfortunately if Bailey were involved, unless the Jays decided to move Bautista instead. I could see the Jays dealing Rasmus if AA knows that he doesn't want to sign an extension here.

 

Yeah I think it will come down to Rasmus willingness to sign an extension. I can't see AA moving Rasmus unless he knows he won't sign.

[DuckDuckGose]

That would look pretty awful after Bailey walks but I could see AA doing it.

 

You could say the exact same thing about Rasmus

[GD]

You need to do better research. Knuckleballers last longer.

 

I don't feel like reading the rest of your post but here's a nice article on an aging curve for knuckleballers from NJH:

 

http://www.breakingblue.ca/2013/11/27/ra-dickey-and-the-knuckleballer-aging-curve/

[Dr. Dinger]

You could say the exact same thing about Rasmus

 

That's one thing, but you'd essentially be trading Sanchez for a declining Phillips and his hefty contract.

[Olerud363]

You need to do better research. Knuckleballers last longer. Phil Neikro pitched effectively until age 47, and was 5th in Cy Young voting at age 43.

Nolan Ryan depended on velocity. If you are going to start comparing people at least make some attempt to be relevant. Otherwise, you are just

another complainer on here. So he's 4 years younger then Phil was on a great season. I suppose you need to look up Charlie Hough and Tim Wakefield

too, I haven't looked to see how old they were when they hit the wall but that's where you need to start. Rickey Henderson ? What the heck does a

base stealing outfielder have to do with a knuckleball pitcher ?

 

I can see you when Phil Neikro was 39. "the man is 40 ... close to 40. You might get one ok year out of him now". Eight years later he's still a solid back of the rotation starter, four years later he was an ace on his team.

 

I was thinking along those lines.... Niekro was phenomonal... a couple of other guys maintained until 45.

 

The record of other famous knuckleballers

 

Niekro - had a year like Dickey's at 38... then rebounded and went on a 6 year run of contending for cy youngs.

Hough - very good at 40... decent to 45.

Candiotti - best years in mid 30s... done by about 40.

Wakefield - nothing special after 40... but lasted until 45.

[GNick]

I think Rasmus would have to be included unfortunately if Bailey were involved, unless the Jays decided to move Bautista instead. I could see the Jays dealing Rasmus if AA knows that he doesn't want to sign an extension here.

 

I figure Bailey for Rasmus and we get Hanigan for taking on Phillips. We'd move Arencibia or Lind for 4th outfielder in separate trade

[GNick]

Rasmus + Sanchez for Bailey + Phillips + Hanigan might work, bit it's a lot of potential talent we give up.

 

That's too much. Better trades out there

[ElNik2013]

I figure Bailey for Rasmus and we get Hanigan for taking on Phillips. We'd move Arencibia or Lind for 4th outfielder in separate trade

 

 

I would think that if Rasmus were traded, Lind's offense would be more important than a 4th OF especially since you could find a 4th OF in FA, but who knows, AA's the Ninja.

[GNick]

I would think that if Rasmus were traded, Lind's offense would be more important than a 4th OF especially since you could find a 4th OF in FA, but who knows, AA's the Ninja.

 

Or we could move Lind in deal for Stults? Trade Stults in Bailey trade

[ElNik2013]

Or we could move Lind in deal for Stults? Trade Stults in Bailey trade

 

 

I guess it's part of the off season to hope/dream for all sorts of trade scenarios. Realistically, if Bailey was available, AA would have to outbid several teams for him.

 

I'd like to see AA make a quality FA signing for once.

[BlueJaysGirl]

You seem pretty adamant on getting rid of Lind, who's our DH if that were to happen because you've just created another hole?

 

In terms of DH, I like what the Rays are going to do...take turns rotating in that position. I don't think you need a strictly DH type player like Lind. Unless someone falls in your lap. An older slugger with eroding defensive skills.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I was thinking along those lines.... Niekro was phenomonal... a couple of other guys maintained until 45.

 

The record of other famous knuckleballers

 

Niekro - had a year like Dickey's at 38... then rebounded and went on a 6 year run of contending for cy youngs.

Hough - very good at 40... decent to 45.

Candiotti - best years in mid 30s... done by about 40.

Wakefield - nothing special after 40... but lasted until 45.

 

Wakefield was never great but he filled a role on some good Boston teams. The thing about Dickey is age is always a risk but its a calculated one because reliable front end starters are in short supply and the salaries to sign someone are getting pretty hefty unless its someone with current risks. On our team, its a necessary risk, durability is extremely important to our team. And the bonus is whomever pitches after Dickey gets an advantage that seems to be real according to the data.

[GD]

You're an old man, you should know this.

 

#shotsFIRED

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Do you take into account natural aging curves? You're an old man, you should know this. He's 40 years old and his body is detiorating. It showed last season because of his back problems.

 

This "old man" is probably in better shape then you are, but I'm not typical of most 50 year olds. I don't know why you think you can make assumptions about Dickey at age 39. You know about as much about him as you do about me, yet I'm running 20+ miles most weeks and still competitive against 20 year olds in my chosen sports. But this is the point really, you make broad assumptions about people and activities you know very little about all the time. You are self absorbed in nature and seem entirely unaware of how little you know about life.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

#shotsFIRED

 

You know what would be funny is if you two turned out just to be stay at home nerds who don't compete well in any sports at all. I suspect this might

even be true the absurd way you go on at times on this forum. If sports were just about stats and generalities there would be no point in them at all,

I prefer competing myself but can relate well to team sports because I've played and coached them my whole life.

[GD]

You know what would be funny is if you two turned out just to be stay at home nerds who don't compete well in any sports at all.

 

Nerds will rule the world.

 

I can't speak for Gordie but I have played a high level of competitive sports all my life.

 

I just made my high school basketball team which is extremely competitive in Toronto but tbh I'm s*** at baseball. I haven't played much at all in the past two years as I'm Dustin McGowan with my shoulder but I'm starting up again this year.

[saskjayfan]

This is extremely hypocritical. You were just rambling to me about how I make broad assumptions of people and activities I know very little about..and in the next post you go onto say how I am a "stay at home nerd" who doesn't play sports at all.

 

In this post you have shown you are probably just as immature as GD or I.

 

I can't speak for Gordie but I have played a high level of competitive sports all my life.

 

I think cooler heads is making the assumption that anyone with over 10,000 posts is a stay at home nerd....not exactly an uncalculated assumption..lol. You are assuming Dickey had back issues because he's an old man....perhaps you are a high level athelete(you know beer pong does not qualify as a sport)....and perhaps Dickey's injuries were ones that he would have also sustained if he was 21 years old.

 

It's not unreasonable to assume that older people are more injury prone...but you're not dead at 38 either.....Dickey pitched better in the second half..but I also think it wasn't just his injuries...he was adjusting to leagues, surroundings and expectations. As much as the Jays had a ton of pressure this year....next year will be almost the exact opposite....most of you have them pegged for 75 to 80 wins....I expect Dickey to perform much better next year as knuckleballers tend to age well....

[GD]

I don't even know...what you are...rambling about...?

 

He had..back problems...because...he's an old...man

 

I do. 21 year olds can have back problems too. Sask is saying that Dickey isn't DEFINITELY having back problems due to his old age. I think he is, but that's sask's opinion and it's not ridiculously unreasonable.

[GD]

The I don't even know what you are rambling about was to the beer pong comment. The high level athlete (beer pong) did not fit anywhere into what he was saying at all.

 

Anybody can have back problems at anytime of life, but as you get older your body becomes more susceptible, no? It makes complete sense that you know, a 40 year old man is having back problems.

 

Oh, whoops, okay.

 

And you're absolutely right. It's likely that that is the case. But it isn't 100% sure and that's his point. I agree with you fwiw.

[saskjayfan]

I don't even know...what you are...rambling about...?

 

 

 

He had..back problems...because...he's an old...man

 

you struggling to grasp the English language? You said the following:

 

"This is extremely hypocritical. You were just rambling to me about how I make broad assumptions of people and activities I know very little about..and in the next post you go onto say how I am a "stay at home nerd" who doesn't play sports at all.

 

In this post you have shown you are probably just as immature as GD or I.

 

I can't speak for Gordie but I have played a high level of competitive sports all my life. "

 

Cooler heads said the following:

 

 

"You know what would be funny is if you two turned out just to be stay at home nerds who don't compete well in any sports at all. I suspect this might

even be true the absurd way you go on at times on this forum. If sports were just about stats and generalities there would be no point in them at all,

I prefer competing myself but can relate well to team sports because I've played and coached them my whole life."

 

1. You said cooler heads called you a stay at home nerd. Fact. Cooler head said he suspected you may be a stay at home nerd...he did not definitively say you were one with no athletic ability. I simply noted he probably came to this conclusion because you have more than 10,000 posts..lol

 

2. Cooler heads is 50....i'm 38...both of us have gone through the aging process...Cooler heads more than me as he is older...and more importantly he's stated that he's quite the athlete so when he talks about an athlete aging he's actually gone through the process. You assume you know better despite the fact that you have never had the experiences because you are in your 20s...(I remember when I was 20 and knew everything...lol) Dickey did not necessarily have back issues because he is old..athletes get injured all the time..and you do see 22 year olds on the dl as well.....Knuckleballers age well and he could very well bounce back and have a very good year.

 

3. Nothing I'm going to type will change your mind because you're never wrong...are you...lol

[TheEndIsNigh]

Until February yes, am I supposed to change from 25-30 to my said age, I see an angle, but I don't see what you're getting at?

 

Incredibly sad you are that old and more immature then most 8 year olds.

[GD]

I simply noted he probably came to this conclusion because you have more than 10,000 posts..lol

 

Jesus christ King

 

Remember when I led in posts?

 

Incredibly sad you are that old and more immature then most 8 year olds.

 

You're a little s*** disturber, aren't you?

[GeorgiaPeach]

No, his FB% went up 5% this year.

 

It was still amusing.