Offseason Roster Thread 2025-26

[mphenhef]

6 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

What do people think of Jonatan Clase vs Straw?

Clase has elite sprint speed and decent power (as evidenced by a 20 homer minor league season and that one long clutch homerun I think against the Cardinals) decent walk rate.

Straw is a noodle with the bat but decent walk rate (for a noodle), speed and a .250 hitter.

Frustrating seeing Straw come up so much and so empty in the World Series, but that is low sample size and his skill set could have just as easily produced a walk or single that would turn a game. 

Clase would have been more a threat for some power that could turn a game (of course could just as easily gone 0 for 9). 

I guess we owe Straw money, but would you rather of Clase in that roster spot.  Would it be possible to trade some combination of Straw, Satander, Berrios for another bad contract?  If so which one?  

All reports were that Straw was a huge part of the clubhouse culture.  I'm not sure I mess with that to go with Clase instead.

[Olerud363.354]

2 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

All reports were that Straw was a huge part of the clubhouse culture.  I'm not sure I mess with that to go with Clase instead.

Fair enough.  I wonder what you do with Clase though.  I think I've heard some posters say he may be DFA'd.  Seems like a waste of the skillset.  Is his defense sub-par (despite elite speed) ? 

[Spanky__99]

8 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Fair enough.  I wonder what you do with Clase though.  I think I've heard some posters say he may be DFA'd.  Seems like a waste of the skillset.  Is his defense sub-par (despite elite speed) ? 

Going forward Clase > Straw... simply cause of the money, Jays need to shed that contract. He put up 1.8 War last season I'm sure someone will take it on at a reduced amount, plus there's two team options to go with that. Low budget team could make due with him.

[jmomcc]

58 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

What do people think of Jonatan Clase vs Straw?

Clase has elite sprint speed and decent power (as evidenced by a 20 homer minor league season and that one long clutch homerun I think against the Cardinals) decent walk rate.

Straw is a noodle with the bat but decent walk rate (for a noodle), speed and a .250 hitter.

Frustrating seeing Straw come up so much and so empty in the World Series, but that is low sample size and his skill set could have just as easily produced a walk or single that would turn a game. 

Clase would have been more a threat for some power that could turn a game (of course could just as easily gone 0 for 9). 

I guess we owe Straw money, but would you rather of Clase in that roster spot.  Would it be possible to trade some combination of Straw, Satander, Berrios for another bad contract?  If so which one?  

Is Clase considered a real CF? It was my understanding he's a real work in progress there. 

He seems like someonne who needs to be on a bad team so he can make mistakes and learn. 

I'd make Straw's offseason goal to convert speed into steals. 

[Spanky__99]

We're talking about a 5th OF'er here, lol.

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, Spanky__99 said:

Going forward Clase > Straw... simply cause of the money, Jays need to shed that contract. He put up 1.8 War last season I'm sure someone will take it on at a reduced amount, plus there's two team options to go with that. Low budget team could make due with him.

It's really too bad that Straw isn't at least an above average bat v. LHP.  If he was a 105-110 wRC+ hitter v. LHP, he'd be the perfect fit for this team.  

As is - I can appreciate what he brings to the team, but it does feel like we have some guys in the upper minors who can replace Straw for next to nothing...

[SeranthonySantander]

2 hours ago, mphenhef said:

Michael Jordan was left off a high school team altogether.  

For good reason it seems.  Just looked this guy up, he hit .200, with a .550 OPS in AA

[Olerud363.354]

12 minutes ago, SeranthonySantander said:

For good reason it seems.  Just looked this guy up, he hit .200, with a .550 OPS in AA

What was his sprint speed?  Kind of amazing though to do even that being thrown into AA at 30 without having played baseball in 12 years. 

I kind of feel like 1994 Jordan would have been a good fit for 5th outfielder.  Maybe get him some reps at second.

1.  Great sprint speed

2.  Championship experience

3.  Long reach

If the 1994 Jordan was on third instead of IKF Jays win world series, good sprint speed, long wing span, athletic ability to do head first dive.  =

[SeranthonySantander]

6 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

What was his sprint speed?  Kind of amazing though to do even that being thrown into AA at 30 without having played baseball in 12 years. 

I kind of feel like 1994 Jordan would have been a good fit for 5th outfielder.  Maybe get him some reps at second.

1.  Great sprint speed

2.  Championship experience

3.  Long reach

If the 1994 Jordan was on third instead of IKF Jays win world series, good sprint speed, long wing span, athletic ability to do head first dive.  =

I don't know sprint speed or if they have that available for AA and in the 90s.  He did have 30 SB and 18 caught stealing though.

So yea he probably would have brought us a SHIP

Despite racism being a concern in the MLB, it seems the Jay's aren't opposed to African American players.  So he might have got some playing time.

I asked google if the Jay's have any African Americans and they said we have Barger

Yes, the Blue Jays have had African American players

, both historically and currently, although the number has varied over time. Notable historical players include Jesse Barfield and Lloyd Moseby, while current players like Addison Barger have also played for the team. 

[Laika]

2 hours ago, Olerud363.354 said:

What do people think of Jonatan Clase vs Straw?

Clase has elite sprint speed and decent power (as evidenced by a 20 homer minor league season and that one long clutch homerun I think against the Cardinals) decent walk rate.

Straw is a noodle with the bat but decent walk rate (for a noodle), speed and a .250 hitter.

Frustrating seeing Straw come up so much and so empty in the World Series, but that is low sample size and his skill set could have just as easily produced a walk or single that would turn a game. 

Clase would have been more a threat for some power that could turn a game (of course could just as easily gone 0 for 9). 

I guess we owe Straw money, but would you rather of Clase in that roster spot.  Would it be possible to trade some combination of Straw, Satander, Berrios for another bad contract?  If so which one?  

I think Straw

For now Straw is fine since the defense is a bankable asset. It helps a lot over a full regular season.

He gets the bat literally knocked out of his hands against good pitchers though. Clase is like 10 wRC+ points better, so he's a bit more cromulent offensively, but the tradeoff isn't there since it doesn't seem like Clase is a good CFer. 

I think you run with Straw for the regular season but think twice about his role on any playoff roster. 

[Orgfiller]

2 hours ago, Olerud363.354 said:

What do people think of Jonatan Clase vs Straw?

Clase has elite sprint speed and decent power (as evidenced by a 20 homer minor league season and that one long clutch homerun I think against the Cardinals) decent walk rate.

Straw is a noodle with the bat but decent walk rate (for a noodle), speed and a .250 hitter.

Frustrating seeing Straw come up so much and so empty in the World Series, but that is low sample size and his skill set could have just as easily produced a walk or single that would turn a game. 

Clase would have been more a threat for some power that could turn a game (of course could just as easily gone 0 for 9). 

I guess we owe Straw money, but would you rather of Clase in that roster spot.  Would it be possible to trade some combination of Straw, Satander, Berrios for another bad contract?  If so which one?  

The difference maker here is the defense. Straw plays premium OF defense including at CF, whereas Clase seem average at best in a corner. Clase is a much (like 10 points of wRC+) better hitter, and at least is a switch hitter for whatever little that means since he's not exactly a world beater against either side. Speed is probably a wash although Clase might be more willing to go for a stolen base in a key spot, for better or for worse.

[Jonn]

I’m fine with Straw staying on the team as a 5th OF because maybe he can be used in the role he would actually help us in. Which is in pinch running. Far to often late in the Season and in the playoffs when a running situation came up Straw was already in the game for Defense. And a lot of those times it hurt us both in that running situation and when Straws turn came up in the Lineup again.

He got 9 World Series at-bats and he didn’t even start a single game. That can’t happen. He could have been the base runner instead of IKF in that controversial out at home plate.
 

Next year in the playoffs I hope they learned that carrying all those pitchers was needless considering they didn’t even want to use Little unless they absolutely had to in the World Series. Having any kind of dedicated pinch runner or pinch hitter option could have made of difference.

[Olerud363.354]

56 minutes ago, Laika said:

I think you run with Straw for the regular season but think twice about his role on any playoff roster. 

I went back to look at the exit velocities from the Monday June 9th game.  The Jonatan Clase game.  Turns out he had the second best exit velocity that game at 108...

The 108 wasn't the homer.   The homer was 106.  I think those may have been his two hardest balls as a Jays though.  Nothing super-special for "best EV" or "best distance"... but at a dramatic moment.

Sprint speed and arm though rank high.  Routes?  Apparently not super-great. 

The 20 homer minor league season is promising.  56 total minor homeruns vs Straw 7.  Like Clase has more of a chance for a big swing somewhere. 

[Olerud363.354]

24 minutes ago, Jonn said:

Next year in the playoffs I hope they learned that carrying all those pitchers was needless considering they didn’t even want to use Little unless they absolutely had to in the World Series. Having any kind of dedicated pinch runner or pinch hitter option could have made of difference.

Though arguably Little was needed.   Any extra innings game you do need those pitchers.

Problem is IKF is an average runner.  Like honestly Cavan Biggio would have been better in that role.  Or Joey Loperfido.   Joey Loperfido has played 50 minor games at second base.  And if you don't want to put Loperfido at second put Davis Schneider there. 

Like maybe a bad idea to put Loperfido at second in the World Series not being there for two years.  What I mean is put Loperfido at second a few times in the regular season just in case.  

 

[Olerud363.354]

3 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Problem is IKF is an average runner.  Like honestly Cavan Biggio would have been better in that role.  Or Joey Loperfido.

I guess on the other hand it is impossible to know what skills and situations will become important in a playoff series.  This World Series, with Bo Bichette not able to run and 2 extra inning games with 3 runners thrown out on the bases (2 at home plate) in those games... is like the baserunning World Series.  A different world series maybe there is a bunch of hard plays in the middle infield. 

Will say would be nice if you don't have to use multiple players for 1 substitution.  Like Lukes/Schneider/Straw sequence where 2 players used over 1 out. 

[Stangstag]

49 minutes ago, Jonn said:

I’m fine with Straw staying on the team as a 5th OF because maybe he can be used in the role he would actually help us in. Which is in pinch running. Far to often late in the Season and in the playoffs when a running situation came up Straw was already in the game for Defense. And a lot of those times it hurt us both in that running situation and when Straws turn came up in the Lineup again.

He got 9 World Series at-bats and he didn’t even start a single game. That can’t happen. He could have been the base runner instead of IKF in that controversial out at home plate.
 

Next year in the playoffs I hope they learned that carrying all those pitchers was needless considering they didn’t even want to use Little unless they absolutely had to in the World Series. Having any kind of dedicated pinch runner or pinch hitter option could have made of difference.

Great point on carrying too many pitchers. Why even bother with Little if he was only going to be used in the 18th inning as the last guy out lol.

Loperfido could have made a difference on 2 separate occasions (DS was used a pinch runner and failed to score, IKF used as a pinch runner twice)

[Terminator]

Myles Straw is like 3x World Series champ Terrance Gore on steroids.

Regular season = useful 5th OF (Gore wasn't good enough to do this)

Playoffs = should only be pinch running and a defensive replacement (the Gore role)

I will say, however, that his 91 wRC+ season with the stick this year was a nice development for him. It wasn't built on luck or anything either, his xStats match. Hopefully he can keep that going.

Clase has some tools but his defense actually sucks. Now that he's out of options I think we just gotta cut him loose. Could maybe get a lottery ticket from a bad team from him at best. 

[Stangstag]

2 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Myles Straw is like 3x World Series champ Terrance Gore on steroids.

Regular season = useful 5th OF (Gore wasn't good enough to do this)

Playoffs = should only be pinch running and a defensive replacement (the Gore role)

I will say, however, that his 91 wRC+ season with the stick this year was a nice development for him. It wasn't built on luck or anything either, his xStats match. Hopefully he can keep that going.

Clase has some tools but his defense actually sucks. Now that he's out of options I think we just gotta cut him loose. Could maybe get a lottery ticket from a bad team from him at best. 

I see him more as a 2015 Kevin Pillar.

[max silver]

17 hours ago, gruber9292 said:

"pools of talent will be flowing through the system that will keep the team competitive for years".. Ross Atkins 

I saw no pools of talent being developed over the last 10 years and NOT ONE solid MLB pitcher had been developed in the 10 years under Shatkins. Thank goodness for a top five payroll, otherwise let's be honest. Prior to the WS run, can someone please remind me of the other successful playoff years? Just curious. 

Did you miss the first wave of talent that came up in 2019-2020? That included players like Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Gurriel, Kirk, Moreno etc. That's a massive pool of talent, but these players don't count for some reason.

Pitching development has been a real sore point, but Manoah and Yesavage both seem like solid MLB pitchers to me.

 

[Terminator]

53 minutes ago, Jonn said:

I’m fine with Straw staying on the team as a 5th OF because maybe he can be used in the role he would actually help us in. Which is in pinch running. Far to often late in the Season and in the playoffs when a running situation came up Straw was already in the game for Defense. And a lot of those times it hurt us both in that running situation and when Straws turn came up in the Lineup again.

He got 9 World Series at-bats and he didn’t even start a single game. That can’t happen. He could have been the base runner instead of IKF in that controversial out at home plate.
 

Next year in the playoffs I hope they learned that carrying all those pitchers was needless considering they didn’t even want to use Little unless they absolutely had to in the World Series. Having any kind of dedicated pinch runner or pinch hitter option could have made of difference.

We went with a 5 man bench (14 position players and 12 pitchers) in the World Series so I don't think we were necessarily carrying extra pitchers.

[Sorrow]

Straw has a role on this team because you’re starting Tony Taters everyday in LF. You’ll want someone who is an above average runner and defender to be a late game replacement. I do think you’ll need a 5th OF and if you count Schneider as one that’s your 5. If you sign Bellinger or Tucker and bump Barger to 3rd you have Clement back as a super utility which again is going to strengthen the roster.

[mphenhef]

20 minutes ago, max silver said:

Did you miss the first wave of talent that came up in 2019-2020? That included players like Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Gurriel, Kirk, Moreno etc. That's a massive pool of talent, but these players don't count for some reason.

Pitching development has been a real sore point, but Manoah and Yesavage both seem like solid MLB pitchers to me.

 

Vlad and arguably Bo (reports that holdover scouts had to fight the new regime to draft him) are very much products of the previous regime.

[jmomcc]

47 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Myles Straw is like 3x World Series champ Terrance Gore on steroids.

Regular season = useful 5th OF (Gore wasn't good enough to do this)

Playoffs = should only be pinch running and a defensive replacement (the Gore role)

I will say, however, that his 91 wRC+ season with the stick this year was a nice development for him. It wasn't built on luck or anything either, his xStats match. Hopefully he can keep that going.

Clase has some tools but his defense actually sucks. Now that he's out of options I think we just gotta cut him loose. Could maybe get a lottery ticket from a bad team from him at best. 

He needs to steal more to be a really useful pinch runner. 

[max silver]

31 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

Vlad and arguably Bo (reports that holdover scouts had to fight the new regime to draft him) are very much products of the previous regime.

The discussion point was with regards to talent developed by this front office. Vlad was acquired by AA but developed under the current regime. Bo was drafted and developed by this front office so credit should be given where credit is due. The argument that the front office shouldn't get credit for drafting Bo is f@cking stupid as literally all that matters is that they made the pick, the process for how they eventually got to the point of deciding who to choose holds no relevance when evaluating the success or failure of draft picks. This isn't a case like the Tulo/Ricky Romero draft where JRP overrode his scouting staff to choose Romero as the team still drafted Bichette with their pick. 

[Brownie19]

Do we really need these responses to gruber's nonsense?  

We've beaten this horse to death over the past 2-3 years.  Atkins haters point to the lack of playoff success and love to wave the "waves of talent" quote in everyone's face.  

We finished 2 outs away from winning the world series and we're still giving these naysayers the time of day?  It's nonsense.  2020-2025 is CLEARLY the best stretch we've seen since the incredible 1983-1993 run (which was really remarkable).

You want to argue the payroll is the reason?  Well guess what?  It was a major factor in '92 & '93 - you want to discount that success too?

You want to focus on one quote - like everything a GM says must come true or they are failure?  That's moronic, but OK.  The list of homegrown talent that were drafted/developed by the Atkins regime is pretty substantial.

Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Barger, Schneider, Yesavage and Flu were all major contributors this year.  Add in prospects we've traded to bring in guys like Varsho, Berrios, Teo, Clement, Varland, Gimenez, Little, Fisher, Bieber, Sandlin, etc.

Obviously the FO isn't perfect, but you have to be one miserable c*nt to not give this FO some credit.  To keep repeating the same nonsense year after year is really embarrassing at this point.  If you haven't or can't enjoy the run we've been on and the current state of the team, than I feel bad for you.  It's really sad.  

[jmomcc]

5 minutes ago, max silver said:

Vlad was acquired by AA but Bo was drafted by this front office so credit should be given where credit is due.

It is kind of weird just how much came out of the calendar year 2016. That was probably our peak position player acquisition year. Bo, kirk, moreno, and i think gurriel. I might be missing someone. 

I think we might look back and see that they started to turn things around in a lot if things 2/3 years ago. 

[jmomcc]

2 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Do we really need these responses to gruber's nonsense?  

We've beaten this horse to death over the past 2-3 years.  Atkins haters point to the lack of playoff success and love to wave the "waves of talent" quote in everyone's face.  

We finished 2 outs away from winning the world series and we're still giving these naysayers the time of day?  It's nonsense.  2020-2025 is CLEARLY the best stretch we've seen since the incredible 1983-1993 run (which was really remarkable).

You want to argue the payroll is the reason?  Well guess what?  It was a major factor in '92 & '93 - you want to discount that success too?

You want to focus on one quote - like everything a GM says must come true or they are failure?  That's moronic, but OK.  The list of homegrown talent that were drafted/developed by the Atkins regime is pretty substantial.

Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Barger, Schneider, Yesavage and Flu were all major contributors this year.  Add in prospects we've traded to bring in guys like Varsho, Berrios, Teo, Clement, Varland, Gimenez, Little, Fisher, Bieber, Sandlin, etc.

Obviously the FO isn't perfect, but you have to be one miserable c*nt to not give this FO some credit.  To keep repeating the same nonsense year after year is really embarrassing at this point.  If you haven't or can't enjoy the run we've been on and the current state of the team, than I feel bad for you.  It's really sad.  

I still believe what i always thought.
 

This FO is really good at identifying certain types of hitters. They are great at having high floorish hitters as well and just filling a roster. Their free agent and trade approach for starters is really smart as they seem to really value guys who pitch a lot of innings over pure stuff, which is a good zag against the meta of baseball over the last ten years. On the other hand for most of the ten years they have been one of the 'dumb' pitching development teams. 

I don't think you can be a perennial contender and not be better at pitching dev. There are signs that that has changed but i don't think it was wrong to believe that that was probably a fatal flaw. 

The most recent draft is also really promising. 
 

 

[hanton]

7 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

I still believe what i always thought.
 

This FO is really good at identifying certain types of hitters. They are great at having high floorish hitters as well and just filling a roster. Their free agent and trade approach for starters is really smart as they seem to really value guys who pitch a lot of innings over pure stuff, which is a good zag against the meta of baseball over the last ten years. On the other hand for most of the ten years they have been one of the 'dumb' pitching development teams. 

I don't think you can be a perennial contender and not be better at pitching dev. There are signs that that has changed but i don't think it was wrong to believe that that was probably a fatal flaw. 

The most recent draft is also really promising. 
 

 

Good post. 

I will add major league hitting development has come a long way thanks to the hiring of Popkins and Iannotti 

[jmomcc]

8 minutes ago, hanton said:

Good post. 

I will add major league hitting development has come a long way thanks to the hiring of Popkins and Iannotti 

It seems like they found a way to add power and bat speed to contact. 

It does show that sometimes you should show faith. I think the red sox fire him last year. 

[jmomcc]

Fangraphs has its 40 man roster crunch article up. They don't seem to think we will have much trouble. 

"Toronto has several injured pitchers (Ricky Tiedemann, Connor Cooke, T.J. Brock) whose timelines for return might line up in such a way that it’s convenient for another club to use a Rule 5 pick on them. Outfielder Victor Arias might be the lone Jays position player who is added."