Blue Jays-Dodgers World Series Game 7 Thread: Max Scherzer vs Shohei Ohtani

[Stangstag]

2 hours ago, Fastball21 said:

Sorry but I find this so bizarre, are you saying it was better to get thrown out at home? I'm so baffled by this, the winning run got thrown out at home, how could that be better? Getting doubled off in this situation was not the worst thing in baseball, getting thrown out at home was. 

2 outs is better than 1 out what??? Are you restarted? After getting thrown out at home they still had another shot with the bases loaded.

[Stangstag]

2 hours ago, BigRed said:

If Schneider is trusting enough of Varsho to keep the bat in his hands and not have him lay down a bunt, why wouldn't you tell IKF to take a slightly bigger lead with a lefty pull hitter at the plate? If Varsho lines out to 3rd or short and IKF gets doubled out, you tip your hat and chalk that up to bad luck on a ball in play to a part of the field that he doesn't really hit to. Look at his fangraphs spray charts -- I don't see a single line drive to 3rd or short.

That said, I don't blame IKF. He's not the best runner to begin with. Varsho needs to get that ball up in the air deep. There's a dozen other plays you can point to that if they went the jays way we'd be getting ready for a parade.

You’re discounting the bad case line drive back to the pitcher. Unfortunately, Jays got scared of lining into a DP after the Barger gaffe and Gimenez’ liner to Muncy in the 8th

[Stangstag]

1 hour ago, Brownie19 said:

I know it doesn't always work like this, but...

The 2014 Royals:

- First World Series appearance since winning the title 30 years prior 

- Lost in heartbreaking fashion in Game 7 at home

- Generational pitching performance by opponent SP, came in to deliver last out, got WS MVP.

The 2015 Royals:

- World Series Champions

They also lost in 2014 to a dominant starting pitcher in Madbum. Very similar to this 2025 series including leaving the tying run on 3rd in the final inning.

[SeranthonySantander]

If AJ Pearzinski or Eric Kratz, or basically anyone on twitter was our coach we win the World Series.  Anyone except Whit Merrifield and Tommy Pham.  And you can't really trust Tommy Pham because he's a big IKF guy but hates the blue jays.

[Fastball21]

6 hours ago, Stangstag said:

2 outs is better than 1 out what??? Are you restarted? After getting thrown out at home they still had another shot with the bases loaded.

Umm, isn't that kinda what happened? How'd it work out? Bottom line, if IKF takes a secondary lead we're celebrating and not having this discussion, the end, have a good night. 👍😊

[hanton]

6 minutes ago, SeranthonySantander said:

If AJ Pearzinski or Eric Kratz, or basically anyone on twitter was our coach we win the World Series.  Anyone except Whit Merrifield and Tommy Pham.  And you can't really trust Tommy Pham because he's a big IKF guy but hates the blue jays.

lol

[glory]

I think the part that bothers me is the improbability of the Jays going back to the World Series any time soon. It could happen certainly but baseball is such a crapshoot. The Braves won a World Series after a mediocre regular season primarily due to overachieving role players, but then could barely win a playoff game after multiple 100 win regular seasons after that. Once you get in, you have to take advantage of it. The Jays being literally 2 outs away makes it worse. Losing the series in 6 where the Dodgers were clearly the better team would have given us a completely different outlook. 

I guess 2025 wasn’t the 2015 Royals. We have to hope they were the 2014 Royals, with Yamamoto playing the role of MadBum. Win the thing next year and we can move on from this. JS will be back so the Ned Yost energy will still be there.

[L54]

5 hours ago, BigRed said:

If Schneider is trusting enough of Varsho to keep the bat in his hands and not have him lay down a bunt, why wouldn't you tell IKF to take a slightly bigger lead with a lefty pull hitter at the plate? If Varsho lines out to 3rd or short and IKF gets doubled out, you tip your hat and chalk that up to bad luck on a ball in play to a part of the field that he doesn't really hit to. Look at his fangraphs spray charts -- I don't see a single line drive to 3rd or short.

That said, I don't blame IKF. He's not the best runner to begin with. Varsho needs to get that ball up in the air deep. There's a dozen other plays you can point to that if they went the jays way we'd be getting ready for a parade.

That’s a fair point about his spray chart. I think in that scenario they’re just controlling the things that they can control. Varsho barrels everything I honestly felt fine giving him that AB and he’s too valuable defensively anyway to take out of the game

Because the upside is limited on that play. Like you’re banking on him either scoring on a wild pitch/passed ball OR you’re going on contact which really doesn’t make sense to me with the infield in and only one out. You have Varsho and Ernie Clement on deck who had just set the league record for hits in a single post season. At the beginning of that AB you like your chances of scoring one if you don’t hit into a double play
 

 

[Terminator]

This board does a good job of avoiding it but I swear to god if I see one more hockey analogy on Reddit, Twitter, etc. I will blow my brains out. 

”I know the feeling of a heartbreaking loss man. The Flames blew a 3-1 series lead back in ‘02 and I never recovered”

Please just STFU you’re not helping 

[philly30]

5 hours ago, Terminator said:

Whatever you do, do NOT visit the Jays subreddit as it will make you want to commit an act of violence.

They are currently holding a kumbaya moment with Dodgers fans over what a great World Series it was. 

That describes about half of the subreddits

[philly30]

5 minutes ago, Terminator said:

This board does a good job of avoiding it but I swear to god if I see one more hockey analogy on Reddit, Twitter, etc. I will blow my brains out. 

”I know the feeling of a heartbreaking loss man. The Flames blew a 3-1 series lead back in ‘02 and I never recovered”

Please just STFU you’re not helping 

So in other words an upper body injury

[Brock Beauchamp]

11 hours ago, newhere said:

Hi all, been lurking and reading here for a long time. I'm struggling pretty hard with the grief. Half embarrassed about it because I know it's just a game, but it's real and tough to handle. 

Welcome to the site!

[Olerud363.354]

8 hours ago, glory said:

The Jays being literally 2 outs away makes it worse. Losing the series in 6 where the Dodgers were clearly the better team would have given us a completely different outlook. 

I guess 2025 wasn’t the 2015 Royals. We have to hope they were the 2014 Royals, with Yamamoto playing the role of MadBum. Win the thing next year and we can move on from this.

It totally sucks that we lost by an inch.  The thinking that it "would be better" if we lost by more is wrong though.  2014 Royals are a good example.  Now 2016 Indians did not get back.

Losing in the most devastating way is probably better than losing any easier way.   Not sure what the best way to approach the question is, but I don't think there is evidence that losing a close Playoff Series has any long term negative effects on the franchise.   Now the fans?  Maybe some of them will be in deep depression for months I guess. 

Not enough World Series to get a lot of data, but if you also include other playoff Series there are lots of examples.  2003 Red Sox lost a horrible game 7 of ALCS came back.  1995 Yankees lost a bad ALDS before their dynasty.  2016 Indians did not make it back but won 100+ the next year.  2003 cubs lost the crazy Bartman ALCS and I guess wondered in the wilderness for a decade a bit, but 13 years later they won it.  

Now of course LOSING is bad.  The argument I am making is that LOSING in epic devastating fashion is no worse long term, and probably better in terms of franchise lore, then Dodgers clinch with 5-1 Ohtani Gem in Los Angeles Wednesday night.  Or Jays go 2-2 to close regular season and 2 and done against Red Sox. 

[Jimcanuck]

I keep going back to Vlad swinging at ball 4 in a 3-0 count to lead off the bottom of the 9th.  He takes that pitch, Jays win (in all likelihood).  Just a terrible swing decision at a critical moment.

Maybe part of the reason he was crying in the dugout long after the other players had left.

[Olerud363.354]

2 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

I keep going back to Vlad swinging at ball 4 in a 3-0 count to lead off the bottom of the 9th.  He takes that pitch, Jays win (in all likelihood).  Just a terrible swing decision at a critical moment.

Was it ball 4?  He missed by a fraction of an inch of ending the game.  Great 3-0 swing just didn't quite square it up.  

What does the data say on 3-0 swing results vs 3-1 count?   Even if a ball it was just outside I give him the benefit of the doubt that you just can't be that perfect.  So would want to know 3-0 swing results vs 3-1 count results to assess the swing decision.  

[Jimcanuck]

3 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Was it ball 4?  He missed by a fraction of an inch of ending the game.  Great 3-0 swing just didn't quite square it up.  

What does the data say on 3-0 swing results vs 3-1 count?   Even if a ball it was just outside I give him the benefit of the doubt that you just can't be that perfect.  So would want to know 3-0 swing results vs 3-1 count results to assess the swing decision.  

It was outside by 3" or so.  When it's a 3-0 count, you should only swing at centre cut meatballs.

MLB on FOX (@mlbonfox) • Instagram reel

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Vladimir Guerrero Jr.'s performance in Game 7 was a highlight reel of exceptional hitting, with key moments that showcased his skill, strategy, and determination. From his ability to adjust to...

 

[SeranthonySantander]

27 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

I keep going back to Vlad swinging at ball 4 in a 3-0 count to lead off the bottom of the 9th.  He takes that pitch, Jays win (in all likelihood).  Just a terrible swing decision at a critical moment.

Maybe part of the reason he was crying in the dugout long after the other players had left.

Leadoff run scores 38% of time, bases loaded 1 out 85% of the time they score.  All at bats are different if Vlad was on.

[Olerud363.354]

14 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

It was outside by 3" or so.  When it's a 3-0 count, you should only swing at centre cut meatballs.

MLB on FOX (@mlbonfox) • Instagram reel

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Vladimir Guerrero Jr.'s performance in Game 7 was a highlight reel of exceptional hitting, with key moments that showcased his skill, strategy, and determination. From his ability to adjust to...

 

Had not re-watched that at bat and on second look pitch 4 looks like a breaking pitch outside.  You are right.  Now another haunting image to mess with our minds the rest of our lives.  

Live I assumed it was fastball outside strike... 

 

[hanton]

so now Vlady is to blame 

[Jimcanuck]

5 minutes ago, hanton said:

so now Vlady is to blame 

Nah, Jays aren't in the WS without him.  But for $500M, don't swing at ball 4 on a 3-0 count!

[SeranthonySantander]

7 minutes ago, hanton said:

so now Vlady is to blame 

Neglect could be a reason to reneg on that contract.  Let's hope Vlad had good lawyers and that he actually read the fine print.  Atkins is shrewd.

[hanton]

4 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

Nah, Jays aren't in the WS without him.  But for $500M, don't swing at ball 4 on a 3-0 count!

which AB are we talking about?

[TheShield]

The Pages catch was a total fluke. When Pages and Kiki collided into each other, I was hoping they would fumble and lose the ball while knocking each other out.

They were both at least 500ft forward from where they usually play and both were full out sprinting for the ball.

[Olerud363.354]

The more you dive into this, the more insane it is. 

Miguel Rojas was horrible against righties, and there is no reason I can see he was even playing instead of Alex Call or even Kim.  Or even Pages who sure, was struggling, but is a 4 WAR player, who hit like Teoscar Hernandez last year (bit better then 2025 Teo, but about that kind of hitter).  A great center fielder.  Is about at Daulton Varsho level as a player.

Rojas is bad against righties last year, bad lifetime. 

Putting Rojas in was a bad move on every level that I can see.  He shouldn't have been playing.  And he hits a World Series changing homer off a righty.  1 homer off a righty this year.  Career .344 slugging against Righties.

Was it God?  Was it power out to get us?  Was it just pure bad awful luck.  

No.  Unfortunately we have to look at the other side of it and while on a nice homerless streak in the playoffs, Jeff Hoffman had about the same homer rate against righties and lefties in 2025.   

Rojas wasn't facing a dominant closer.  We had gotten a way with that most of the playoffs and got burnt.  Righties hit Hoffman .205 .284 .400 last year.   Lefties were even worse and overall he gave up a .450 slugging.   To put that in perspective Andrez Munoz had a slugging against of .222.  Most good closers are around .300.

So while at first glance it seems some astronomically fluke thing that Rojas hit the homer given his split, not really a total fluke given Hoffman's splits.  Closer with .300 or below slugging against should be on the must have list for 2026.

(there is a chance that could be still Hoffman but have to identify the reason for the high homer rate and fix it moving forward if possible)  

 

[mphenhef]

12 hours ago, Stangstag said:

You’re discounting the bad case line drive back to the pitcher. Unfortunately, Jays got scared of lining into a DP after the Barger gaffe and Gimenez’ liner to Muncy in the 8th

True, but I hope to god IKF can get back to the bag faster than Max Muncy had he had a lead as big as muncy was off the base...otherwise just leave Bo in hobbled and all.   Gimenez clearly tried to go the other way on his liner.  Varsho wasn't going to be doing that.

[Terminator]

13 hours ago, newhere said:

Hi all, been lurking and reading here for a long time. I'm struggling pretty hard with the grief. Half embarrassed about it because I know it's just a game, but it's real and tough to handle. 

 

 

You don't have to be embarrassed here my friend. Most of us feel the same.

I'm firmly in the Anger stage of grief and I have no idea how I'm going to get out of it. Each day is actually getting worse.

[Olerud363.354]

44 minutes ago, Terminator said:

I'm firmly in the Anger stage of grief and I have no idea how I'm going to get out of it. Each day is actually getting worse.

Ichiro and Ken Griffey Jr. have 6 playoff wins each.   Davis Schneider has 10 playoff wins.    Who has more playoff wins?  Seattle Mariners since 1977 or Myles Straw's teams (probably didn't play in every game, but I think Myles has more.... it's close).  

Ernie Clement has the all time record for post season hits.  Seeing all the publicity we are getting for this series I am more and more convinced that other than winning, losing the most painful and longest way is the best outcome.

1.  Each playoff game is a tonne of cash for rogers.  The numbers viewing the final innings were absolutely insane and probably add a bit to future payrolls as compared to losing in LA in 5.

2.  Counterpoint - Having half the country watch the final inning scarred them all and they may never want to watch baseball again.

3.  Counterpoint-counterpoint - To make sure point 2 doesn't happen Rogers almost certainly will spend more than if we had lost in LA in 5.  Or even lost 5-1 Saturday.  Not a tonne more, but if they really feel they scarred people (and hopefully professional psychologists will consult and make sure Rogers Brain trust understand the scars) they may just feel they have to really spend, really create another good team to fix the damage that game caused.  Like they can't probably control the randomness of the playoffs, but make a good run at 100 wins just to help the poor people who watched Saturday. 

[Ball4Life]

1 hour ago, Terminator said:

You don't have to be embarrassed here my friend. Most of us feel the same.

I'm firmly in the Anger stage of grief and I have no idea how I'm going to get out of it. Each day is actually getting worse.

I’ve enjoyed your posts all season, even if I don’t post much.⚾️

[SeranthonySantander]

31 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Ichiro and Ken Griffey Jr. have 6 playoff wins each.   Davis Schneider has 10 playoff wins.    Who has more playoff wins?  Seattle Mariners since 1977 or Myles Straw's teams (probably didn't play in every game, but I think Myles has more.... it's close).  

.  

Baseball isn’t about winning the World Series.  Unless you want to switch teams 1/2 of baseball fans will probably never see a World Series win the next 50 years.

It’s about being competitive and is there to give you hope, which is meant to be crushed.  There’s a lot of fun narratives all season, follow players and stats, minor leagues etc, then it’s a lot of fun to bask in the misery of other fans being crushed every year.  Enemy teams like the Yankees and going forward, the dodgers.

You can’t blame these crappy teams who are bottom dwellers for abandoning watching all together, but I wouldn’t be surprised if alot of them have 2/3rd teams they support 

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, Jimcanuck said:

Nah, Jays aren't in the WS without him.  But for $500M, don't swing at ball 4 on a 3-0 count!

You mean the one that he barrelled up at 100.5 MPH with an expected batting average of .470 lol... there's a reason he swung at it, he saw it well and crushed it, s*** happens. If Hoff gets Rojas out in the top half the Jays win.