Article: TRADE: Blue Jays Give Up Top-100 Prospect Khal Stephen In Trade For Starter Shane Bieber

[Orgfiller]

6 minutes ago, Laika said:

If everyone stays healthy and nobody is traded, I wonder if they just go with a 6 man rotation from here on.

Exactly what I was thinking. Go 6 deep and give the older dudes some extra rest, drop one come the playoffs, or like move Berrios into a bulk role.

[Laika]

Like, Bieber is more of a 2/$60M extension candidate for me. Assuming he stays healthy through the playoffs and looks good. 

Some kind of prove it deal like the ones we saw Snell and Matt Chapman go through. And Pete Alonso just sign. 

[glory]

8 minutes ago, Laika said:

If everyone stays healthy and nobody is traded, I wonder if they just go with a 6 man rotation from here on.

It will be a six man rotation. Only one they can drop from the rotation and avoid an ego issue is Lauer, but he’s been the best SP on the team. Keep the geezers healthy for the stretch run. Maybe extra rest will mean Schneider lets them go deeper in games more often (ex. Don’t pull someone who is cruising through 6 on 76 pitches).

[Eat My Shatkins]

17 minutes ago, Laika said:

If everyone stays healthy and nobody is traded, I wonder if they just go with a 6 man rotation from here on.

Not a bad idea. Older rotation and a guy coming off TJS.

[BTS]

9 minutes ago, Laika said:

I'm still scratching my head at what Jack Flaherty settled for last offseason.

No matter what Bieber does he's going to have a tiny sample platform year so I can't see 6 years

I think it depends on what kind of stuff he shows. We saw Snell get 180M and Fried get 220M last offseason. I'm sure teams viewed them as being very likely to miss significant time during those deals, but also saw them as aces who will put up enormous value when they're available for playoff runs. Bieber @ 93-94 is that kind of guy: a horse that can win you multiple games in a single playoff series. I think teams will pay for those caliber of innings in a playoff series. Maybe I was high at 6/150, but I think he clears 100M if he's at that level. Bieber back @ 91-92 might get a Flaherty deal. 

[Pendleton]

Had a feeling Stephen might be trade bait. He has the right combination of performance/present day value to make a team feel fairly certain they are getting a future big leaguer, but still a questionable enough ceiling to where we shouldn't have too much concern about him biting us by becoming a superstar. Of all our prospects he just really seemed to fit right into that perfect tier - valuable but expendable. I could see him becoming an entirely average SP 

[Eat My Shatkins]

Pretty pumped about this. Hopefully he's his old self when he comes back. If so, literally just added the ace we all talked about needing, and with Gausman starting to shove lately, that's a pretty deadly 1-2 punch.

If Bieber declines the option, do the Jays get a comp pick if he signs elsewhere? Just curious.

[Laika]

2 minutes ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

Pretty pumped about this. Hopefully he's his old self when he comes back. If so, literally just added the ace we all talked about needing, and with Gausman starting to shove lately, that's a pretty deadly 1-2 punch.

If Bieber declines the option, do the Jays get a comp pick if he signs elsewhere? Just curious.

Can't QO an in-season acquisition 

[dancingmachine]

12 minutes ago, glory said:

It will be a six man rotation. Only one they can drop from the rotation and avoid an ego issue is Lauer, but he’s been the best SP on the team. Keep the geezers healthy for the stretch run. Maybe extra rest will mean Schneider lets them go deeper in games more often (ex. Don’t pull someone who is cruising through 6 on 76 pitches).

I agree 6 man rotation save the arms usage 

[G-Snarls]

43 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don't really see the upside for Bieber, though. He has a player option for 2026. If he wants a bounceback season to raise value, he already has it.

Yeah that's all true

No motivation for him to sign a short term extension 

Was wishful thinking 

[dancingmachine]

Big risk big reward or big bust. Time will tell

[G-Snarls]

This pretty much seals the deal for Manoah coming back and only working out of the bullpen this season does it not?

Obviously there are no guarantees, but if he came back and looked good he could be a huge addition to the bullpen down the stretch and in the postseason

[Gen.Disarray]

Maybe this pushes Manoah into trade piece territory? 

If you're gonna give meaningful innings to a guy coming off a major arm injury, you'd rather it be the Biebs than Manoah. Also helps avoid the headache of Manoah being ready to go and making a stink when we don't really give him the big innings he wants. 

I don't trust Manoah, even when he's healthy, really. The team might not either. Idk

[Jays24]

11 minutes ago, G-Snarls said:

This pretty much seals the deal for Manoah coming back and only working out of the bullpen this season does it not?

Obviously there are no guarantees, but if he came back and looked good he could be a huge addition to the bullpen down the stretch and in the postseason

Manoah was hard to trust even when he was fully healthy.  Hes coming off a major injury so trusting him to be part of a tight pennant race was always wishful thinking. 

At best he can join the bullpen this year and go for a starter job next year. Or maybe we have injuries to some starters and he's our SP7.  

[Eat My Shatkins]

lol

We got SHANE BIEBER!

Dude is gonna come back and SHOVE.

[Laika]

1 minute ago, Gen.Disarray said:

Maybe this pushes Manoah into trade piece territory? 

If you're gonna give meaningful innings to a guy coming off a major arm injury, you'd rather it be the Biebs than Manoah. Also helps avoid the headache of Manoah being ready to go and making a stink when we don't really give him the big innings he wants. 

I don't trust Manoah, even when he's healthy, really. The team might not either. Idk

Personally, I see no reason to give Manoah any MLB starts this year unless the division is clinched. I believe Toronto can just option him when his rehab is over. 

He might have also suffered some sort of setback. Last pitched July 20th. 

[Jays24]

The ultimate risk to trust your playoff run on a guy coming off a major injury and can leave at the end of the season.  We can look really stupid here.  

BUT, we can look like geniuses if Bieber comes back this season and is his regular self, and we're able to lock him into any type of extension.  

[Pendleton]

14 minutes ago, Laika said:

Personally, I see no reason to give Manoah any MLB starts this year unless the division is clinched. I believe Toronto can just option him when his rehab is over. 

He might have also suffered some sort of setback. Last pitched July 20th. 

 

He still has two minor league options yeah, I don't expect to see him in the bigs unless he forces his way into the picture next spring 

[G-Snarls]

1 minute ago, Pendleton said:

 

He still has two minor league options yeah, I don't expect to see him in the bigs unless he forces his way into the picture next spring 

Which I'm sure hoping he does 

[Pendleton]

 

[max silver]

31 minutes ago, Laika said:

Personally, I see no reason to give Manoah any MLB starts this year unless the division is clinched. I believe Toronto can just option him when his rehab is over. 

He might have also suffered some sort of setback. Last pitched July 20th. 

I don't recall hearing about any kind of setback, I believe the team planned a simulated game for Manoah to better control his innings/up-downs vs an official game.

[max silver]

17 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

The ultimate risk to trust your playoff run on a guy coming off a major injury and can leave at the end of the season.  We can look really stupid here.  

BUT, we can look like geniuses if Bieber comes back this season and is his regular self, and we're able to lock him into any type of extension.  

Fingers crossed Bieber shoves and is amenable to an extension. I really doubt it though given how close to free agency he is with the player option. I think the only way he exercises the option is if he suffers from some kind of setback and/or really struggles for the rest of the season so all of the risk is being taken on by the Blue Jays here. 

[MikeM2]

Extend him now because if he's really back then he's opting out and we're f***ed. 

[Jays24]

4 minutes ago, MikeM2 said:

Extend him now because if he's really back then he's opting out and we're f***ed. 

Crazy part is that we need him to be good enough down the stretch where he opts out after the year.  If he opts in then that means he didnt deliver this season. 

Very risky move for a team looking for certainty.  They must be 100% sold on his rehab so I cant wait to see him with the big club.  

[Eat My Shatkins]

5 minutes ago, MikeM2 said:

Extend him now because if he's really back then he's opting out and we're f***ed. 

Nah. If he's good enough the rest of the season to make opting out his best option, then our chances this season just went up quite a bit. It'll mean he's pitching like an ace or top of the rotation starter.

Then if he walks we are in exactly the same position we were going to be in next year anyways but without Khal Stephen. So, not really that different, and I'd hardly call that f***ed.

[max silver]

1 hour ago, Terminator said:

Jays still have Yesavage, Rojas, King, Stanifer and Tiedemann.

I like that the team hung onto the pitchers who appeared to present higher ceilings as I expect both of Stephen and Watts-Brown likely max out as 4-5 types.

[Governator]

Front office has an extremely good relationship with Cleveland, there's a good chance they've had discussion if he'd be open to an extension.

The team also has money coming off the books.  You got an ace calibre pitcher in your control and if he looks like himself and helps us win a pennant you do what you gotta do to lock him up since you're going to look for that exact player after the offseason anyway. 

If they can give 500m to Vlad....

[BatFlip]

For all those people complaining about the price of this deal, what do you think Bieber would cost if he was currently healthy and performing at Bieber level?

This is exactly the kind of high risk, raise the ceiling, type move we needed out of Atkins.  We are going for it this year and we are a big market team that can spend in the off-season.  We don't need another Berrios 2.0, we need a big swinging d--k like Bieber.

Let's goooooo!

[Vancouverite]

1 hour ago, Gen.Disarray said:

Maybe this pushes Manoah into trade piece territory? 

If you're gonna give meaningful innings to a guy coming off a major arm injury, you'd rather it be the Biebs than Manoah. Also helps avoid the headache of Manoah being ready to go and making a stink when we don't really give him the big innings he wants. 

I don't trust Manoah, even when he's healthy, really. The team might not either. Idk

I think Manoah working his way back to the big club as a bullpen option is a good option this year, and i wouldn't trade him.

I'd want to have him stick around to fight for a rotation spot next year, he still has potential to be a very good SP.

[Pendleton]

In the last year, we have added two of the most accomplished SP acquired in franchise history.