2025 Trade Deadline

[Laika]

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Honestly, eat a bag of dicks and go watch soccer if you don't realize that this guy is a total weapon 

[Spanky__99]

Birds did well, Bieber's a coup.

[Terminator]

Roden's first MLB stint was ROUGH. He looked overmatched and scared of striking out so he would throw his gameplan out the window and just wave at pitches and hit weak grounders to the left side.

His projections have taken a small dive as well but it's enough that he's just a platoon bat. Even so, he should be able to overcome some of those rookie struggles and his defense was better than expected so he should be a solid 4th OF or platoon bat.

[gruber9292]

As many of you know I'm not a fan of Shatkins (more so Ross). I do have to admit that they didn't do bad on this year's deadline. Sure another pure closer type would have been ideal but Dominguez does have closer experience and his stuff is filthy. I'm happy with the fact that they made the right decisions imo on the players they parted with as Roden and Wagner aren't anything. I would have liked to have kept Stephen as I think he projects as a solid #3-4 type. Watts - Brown I don't think turns into much. Losing Loperfido was my biggest fear cause this kid has unlocked talent that I think Pops will extract as it's already showing. 

[John_Havok]

19 minutes ago, gruber9292 said:

As many of you know I'm not a fan of Shatkins (more so Ross). I do have to admit that they didn't do bad on this year's deadline. Sure another pure closer type would have been ideal but Dominguez does have closer experience and his stuff is filthy. I'm happy with the fact that they made the right decisions imo on the players they parted with as Roden and Wagner aren't anything. I would have liked to have kept Stephen as I think he projects as a solid #3-4 type. Watts - Brown I don't think turns into much. Losing Loperfido was my biggest fear cause this kid has unlocked talent that I think Pops will extract as it's already showing. 

Both the guys they got in the pen at the deadline have closer stuff. Just hard to be a closer your first year in the pen...and especially behind Duran and Griffin.

Varland has the stuff, whether he gets an opportunity here is another story. It's generally not wise to give your pre-arb arms a ton of save chances since thats the big stat that drives arb raises. Not that Toronto would really need to worry about it with their payroll abilities

He probably gets a shot at the rotation next year... watch as he shows up to camp with a brand new splitter hes been taught in the lab

[gruber9292]

20 minutes ago, John_Havok said:

Both the guys they got in the pen at the deadline have closer stuff. Just hard to be a closer your first year in the pen...and especially behind Duran and Griffin.

Varland has the stuff, whether he gets an opportunity here is another story. It's generally not wise to give your pre-arb arms a ton of save chances since thats the big stat that drives arb raises. Not that Toronto would really need to worry about it with their payroll abilities

He probably gets a shot at the rotation next year... watch as he shows up to camp with a brand new splitter hes been taught in the lab

Only concern with Varland closing is his 8.8/9 K rate albeit only 49 innings in his first year in the pen. If his current numbers continue to play throughout the year, I see no reason in considering starting him again, but who knows. I have a decent feeling that Beiber will resign here though. 

[Jays24]

5 hours ago, Stangstag said:

Im just so happy we get to see another 2+ months of your daily complaining

"wHicH HoFFmAn WilL wE geT tOdAY???"

Funny youre saying that when youve literally been crying during the entire thread about the lack of moves made by Atkins lol.  

[Jays24]

Hope people realize that many good/great players struggle in their first stint in the big leagues.  Its how they go down and come back up is what usually defines their careers. 

Roden was fast tracked to the big league team due to the team really needing some offensive output.  It just happened to come from Barger who was in his position last year.  

It's extremely early to write anything off about him regardless of his age. There was a reason why the organization was salivating over him during Spring Trainining. 

[Jays24]

1 hour ago, max silver said:

[gruber9292]

17 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

Hope people realize that many good/great players struggle in their first stint in the big leagues.  Its how they go down and come back up is what usually defines their careers. 

Roden was fast tracked to the big league team due to the team really needing some offensive output.  It just happened to come from Barger who was in his position last year.  

It's extremely early to write anything off about him regardless of his age. There was a reason why the organization was salivating over him during Spring Trainining. 

Roden's swing is a bit long and loopy for MLB pitching, not that he can't adjust of course. Management has chosen Lukes and Loperfido over Roden and Wagner and I don't blame them. 

[Jays24]

9 minutes ago, gruber9292 said:

Roden's swing is a bit long and loopy for MLB pitching, not that he can't adjust of course. Management has chosen Lukes and Loperfido over Roden and Wagner and I don't blame them. 

Ya i got no clue who will be the better player down the road without knowing their work ethic, potential and various other factors. 

I just dont agree with saying Roden cant be really good based on his extremely short sample size when the entire management team was head over heels for him during Spring Training.  

[metafour]

11 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

Hope people realize that many good/great players struggle in their first stint in the big leagues.  Its how they go down and come back up is what usually defines their careers. 

Roden was fast tracked to the big league team due to the team really needing some offensive output.  It just happened to come from Barger who was in his position last year.  It's extremely early to write anything off about him regardless of his age. 

In what way was Roden fast tracked? He is nearly 26 and played 71 games in AAA last season. He has played 100 career AA games. He is not young, nor has he skipped any levels or been pushed through levels needlessly.

I think that everyone is well aware that players can sometimes figure things out, but you also need to be aware that hitters with swing concerns may also never successfully make the required changes. With him, its been the same story every single season, and the early MLB sample was really bad.

He can still be a usable MLB player, but what is the upside? He hits a ton of groundballs, doesn't barrel the baseball, and has OK but not great exit velocities. His power has regressed this season in AAA, and it looked like he was swinging a wet noodle against MLB pitching.

[L54]

High end outcome for Alan Roden is like Seth Smith or Robbie Grossman 

[HomeRunHomer]

Roden simply just doesn't have enough power in his bat and got hyped up on the dreams that he could be awesome if he somehow found some power which he has never shown.

[Terminator]

28 minutes ago, gruber9292 said:

Roden's swing is a bit long and loopy for MLB pitching, not that he can't adjust of course. Management has chosen Lukes and Loperfido over Roden and Wagner and I don't blame them. 

Agreed. Imagine being upset about us dumping a corner outfielder and infielder combining for a grand total of ONE home run in about 250 ABs lmao.

Plus one of them is a nepo baby who skipped important games in the middle of a pennant chase to go party with his dad for a weekend.

GOOD RIDDANCE

 

[glory]

Getting rid of Roden and Wagner (on the same day no less) was a great sign, IMO. I don't ever want to go into another spring training hearing the front office talk up 26-27 year old slap hitting dudes with no power as if they are about to become core players. If there's any indication that Boss Atkins is back, it's dumping those two. 

[Stangstag]

1 hour ago, Jays24 said:

Funny youre saying that when youve literally been crying during the entire thread about the lack of moves made my Atkins lol.  

Yeah im not crying now though. And i wont continue to bring it up over the next 30 games in a row

[Stangstag]

16 minutes ago, L54 said:

High end outcome for Alan Roden is like Seth Smith or Robbie Grossman 

Or Juan Soto/James Wood

[Nexii]

Roden still has potential I think. His minor league numbers were really good and he had some power. But he was pretty outmatched at the MLB level in his time on the Jays. Maybe another team can fix him

Good trade for the Jays though. We desperately needed pitching and you aren't going to get something for nothing

[Terminator]

These two go back and forth for a while lol

[jmomcc]

5 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

Do you think Clase is elite?   I generally agree that you'd like to see a high K rate, but with a GB% > 50%, there are several elite RPers with K/9 just blow 9.

He has so much track record, yea. 

[jmomcc]

6 hours ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

That they should run a 6 man rotation now that they have Bieber

That's so hard to do for extended periods of time. Maybe in september?

[jmomcc]

6 hours ago, sliderguy35 said:

feels like the varland debate has gotten more philosophical (the idea of giving up assets for a reliever with control) rather than about the actual assets that we got / gave up. 

varland is different from any of the other reliever examples people are providing because he has legitimately ELITE velocity. the relationship between velocity & performance isn't linear, averaging 98 makes a real difference from averaging 95 or 96.

• Hitters vs 98+ MPH fastballs in 2025: .291 xwOBA / .342 xSLG
• Hitters vs 95-97 MPH fastballs in 2025: .343 xwOBA / .439 xSLG

it just gives him a much higher performance floor than any of the other comps that people are making. 

roden is fine. he's a good defender who makes a lot of contact & average swing decisions, but i'm not going to lose sleep over trading a guy with a 5.2% barrel rate in over 300 batted balls at AAA. it feels like the only way for him to be an impact big leaguer would be if he starts pulling the hell out of the ball in the air, but that feels like a longshot for someone who's got a 45+% groundball rate in AAA. 

rojas might pitch for the twins next year, & be pretty good, but he also might get stuck at AAA for another 2 seasons. it's just so hard to project on a guy with average big-league stuff that they've pushed through the system, that's still never thrown more than 100 innings in a season in his minor league career. 

tidy work by atkins. i also really like that we're not throwing additional lower ranked guys in to make these 1-for-3 or 1-for-4 deals just to give up a slightly lower ranked prospect. those are the kinds of trades that look great now, but then 4 years from now you look up and one of the throw-ins from that deal figured something out and is awesome (cough cough the doval & bednar deals)

I really think the bat will play with Roden. Like Kwan has run a sub 3% barrell rate in the majors and his bat plays. I just think he will walk and not strike out, and has enough pop to play in a corner. He also is athletic enough to be an above average defender. Over seven years of control, you'll get a smattering of 1.5 -3 WAR seasons. That's valuable to me. 
 

i listened to some atkins interviews and he said he loves his fastball shape which is interesting. That makes me like it a bit more. 
 

I still philosophically just don't like betting on relievers which this is. There is no fallback from this. The velo ticks back, there is generally no back up like you have with a starter. So, the range of outcomes just includes alot more 'DFAed well before 5 years' than with position players and starters. 
 

I also feel like the deadline is the most expensive time to buy relievers. So its specifically the time when you don't want to pay for control. 
 

edit: also the opportunity cost. I just heard on the radio that we gave up 4 of the top 11 prospects traded on the day. Could we have got better for this year with those prospects, rather than spending some of that capital over the next 5 years? 

However, Atkins clearly loves him. He says he's followed him for years. Loves the fastball shape. So, whatever., let's see what happens. 

[jmomcc]

3 hours ago, metafour said:

He's not? Please describe what you think he is then.

He is 26 years old and his power has regressed this year. Just a .102 ISO in the MLB, and .165 in AAA (down from .196 last season). He had a comically poor 1.3% barrel rate in his MLB sample, and even in AAA it is only at 6.6%. He doesn't have the raw max EV's to get away with low barrel rates.

They've had him for a long time, and it's been a constant battle of trying to get him to somehow elevate the ball more. He hits a lot of groundballs, and his hitting profile didn't work at all against MLB pitching. Maybe the Twins can unlock something with him, but the Jays typically didn't miss on evaluations like this. He has a low impact hitting profile as he currently is.

What is a slap hitter statistically? I've never really tried to quantify it but he seems above the line to me. 

[max silver]

4 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

What is a slap hitter statistically? 

I don't think it's fair to call Roden a slap hitter by any means but I do believe that the emergence of Barger and Loperfido essentially made him expendable. Loperfido is by no means proven at this point but I do believe that he and Roden were essentially competing for a single outfield spot, and with Loperfido making such a sizable improvement to his strikeout rate this allowed the team to utilize Roden as a trade chip.

[jmomcc]

4 minutes ago, max silver said:

I don't think it's fair to call Roden a slap hitter by any means but I do believe that the emergence of Barger and Loperfido essentially made him expendable. Loperfido is by no means proven at this point but I do believe that he and Roden were essentially competing for a single outfield spot, and with Loperfido making such a sizable improvement to his strikeout rate this allowed the team to utilize Roden as a trade chip.

Loperfido has definitely improved his stock. He's also very handsome which helps. My wife immediately clocked him lol. 

[Stangstag]

3 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

Loperfido has definitely improved his stock. He's also very handsome which helps. My wife immediately clocked him lol. 

Ahhh now we learn the real reason you’re upset. You wanted Loperfido traded and Roden got moved instead 

[jmomcc]

2 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Ahhh now we learn the real reason you’re upset. You wanted Loperfido traded and Roden got moved instead 

Roden looks a bit like a potato. Much safer. 

[Jays24]

44 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Yeah im not crying now though. And i wont continue to bring it up over the next 30 games in a l

Let's see how you react if the Jays falter or other teams surpass us because of the moves made/not made at the deadline from your end lol

[bronson44]

Austin Martin leading off for the Twins today with Roden hitting 2nd