[Murray] Alejandro Kirk and the Toronto Blue Jays are in agreement on a five-year, $58 million contract extension

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

The mental gymnastics you guys do to try and justify everything Shatkins does is hilarious.

In 2 years when you all do the usual 180 it'll be funny.

[max silver]

Just now, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

The mental gymnastics you guys do to try and justify everything Shatkins does is hilarious.

In 2 years when you all do the usual 180 it'll be funny.

This is just more proof that you are so one sided/biased in your opinions that you'll complain even when the team makes very smart moves with massive potential upside and little to no downside.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

2 minutes ago, max silver said:

This is just more proof that you are so one sided/biased in your opinions that you'll complain even when the team makes very smart moves with massive potential upside and little to no downside.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

So Max, just curious - why am I not allowed to to have an opinion that this extension was offered too soon?

Why do I have to share your ridiculous views?

[Laika]

You are allowed to have an opinion but people can make fun of you if it's outlandish AND you are indignant about it. Here is an example of a mature and socially acceptable way to express your opinion: 

"I'm not as big of an Alejandro Kirk fan as some of you. I worry about how he will age and wonder if they needed to make this deal when he still had two years before free agency." 

Instead, you said that it was too soon and then insulted his body twice (while ironically being the biggest Vlad Jr. fan ever) and compared the deal to the infamous Randal Grichuk contract. Then you doubled down on the sauce and accused others of doing "mental gymnastics". 

[max silver]

15 minutes ago, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

So Max, just curious - why am I not allowed to to have an opinion that this extension was offered too soon?

Why do I have to share your ridiculous views?

I'll leave this up to you to explain why you think this was offered too soon. Every single piece of analysis I've seen online suggests this is a team friendly deal, with potential to become even more team friendly over time. Kirk is a core member of the team, and the club has nothing coming in the pipeline to replace him in the next few years. Kirk has been MLB's 6th most valuable catcher by FWAR since becoming a full time regular in 2022, and he offers a solid floor and a very high ceiling with room for potential improvement in the future.

I find it interesting you are trying to claim my views are ridiculous when you have been constantly whining about how the team doesn't want to pony up $500 million to a defensively challenged/awful baserunning/inconsistent 1B/DH type with a chronic wrist issue and long term body concerns, and then you immediately start complaining that the team offered up a shade over 10% of that total to lock up their catcher.

In the 3 seasons since Kirk became a full time regular he has provided 9.4 FWAR for the Blue Jays vs 10.0 for Vlad. But of course you are going to complain that Kirk agreed to a team friendly extension while complaining that the team should just capitulate to Vlad and hand him a well above market value extension because you are the type to complain about every single move the team makes because "Shatkins" can do no right in your view.

 

[BatFlip]

9 hours ago, Spanky99 said:

Well, he was very close and I agreed with him and Max. BB wanted him to sign for 17-25M AAV to lock him up for 4 years. This was a great deal for Kirk. 
 

 

This time gentlemen, Jaysblue is NOT the one who should be tarred and feathered.

But let's tar and feather him anyways.

 

[Stangstag]

1 hour ago, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

So Max, just curious - why am I not allowed to to have an opinion that this extension was offered too soon?

Why do I have to share your ridiculous views?

Just a quick glance back at your post history and found this:

“Bottom line is Shatkins has botched the Vlad and Bo situation for years now.

All of the blame lays on them.  Can't blame the player for having a high asking price when they walk him straight to free agency”

And now you’re complaining they extended Kirk (to a very reasonable deal) too early.

You are allowed to have your opinion, and we are allowed to ridicule you for it.

[Spanky99]

6 hours ago, Stangstag said:

Jeez Spanky, do you have a life beyond BJMB?

Dude consistently pulls receipts from weeks/months back lol

It takes a couple minutes, ya f***in bird.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

4 hours ago, max silver said:

I'll leave this up to you to explain why you think this was offered too soon. Every single piece of analysis I've seen online suggests this is a team friendly deal, with potential to become even more team friendly over time. Kirk is a core member of the team, and the club has nothing coming in the pipeline to replace him in the next few years. Kirk has been MLB's 6th most valuable catcher by FWAR since becoming a full time regular in 2022, and he offers a solid floor and a very high ceiling with room for potential improvement in the future.

I find it interesting you are trying to claim my views are ridiculous when you have been constantly whining about how the team doesn't want to pony up $500 million to a defensively challenged/awful baserunning/inconsistent 1B/DH type with a chronic wrist issue and long term body concerns, and then you immediately start complaining that the team offered up a shade over 10% of that total to lock up their catcher.

In the 3 seasons since Kirk became a full time regular he has provided 9.4 FWAR for the Blue Jays vs 10.0 for Vlad. But of course you are going to complain that Kirk agreed to a team friendly extension while complaining that the team should just capitulate to Vlad and hand him a well above market value extension because you are the type to complain about every single move the team makes because "Shatkins" can do no right in your view.

 

[Spanky99]

dElItEmYaCcOuNt... cries on huge pillow.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

2 minutes ago, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

4 hours ago, max silver said:

I'll leave this up to you to explain why you think this was offered too soon. Every single piece of analysis I've seen online suggests this is a team friendly deal, with potential to become even more team friendly over time. Kirk is a core member of the team, and the club has nothing coming in the pipeline to replace him in the next few years. Kirk has been MLB's 6th most valuable catcher by FWAR since becoming a full time regular in 2022, and he offers a solid floor and a very high ceiling with room for potential improvement in the future.

I find it interesting you are trying to claim my views are ridiculous when you have been constantly whining about how the team doesn't want to pony up $500 million to a defensively challenged/awful baserunning/inconsistent 1B/DH type with a chronic wrist issue and long term body concerns, and then you immediately start complaining that the team offered up a shade over 10% of that total to lock up their catcher.

In the 3 seasons since Kirk became a full time regular he has provided 9.4 FWAR for the Blue Jays vs 10.0 for Vlad. But of course you are going to complain that Kirk agreed to a team friendly extension while complaining that the team should just capitulate to Vlad and hand him a well above market value extension because you are the type to complain about every single move the team makes because "Shatkins" can do no right in your view.

 

So you're suggesting Kirk is 94% the player that Vlad is?

 

Your use of stats is atrocious.  I look forward to another 7 paragraph reply of gobbledegook.  

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

I've never seen someone twist themselves over and over again into a pretzel contradicting themselves as much as you do max silver.

 

You have way too much time on your hands if you are willing to spend so much of it trying to convince me to see things your way.  It's not going to work, I'm not a sheep.

[max silver]

44 minutes ago, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

So you're suggesting Kirk is 94% the player that Vlad is?

 

Your use of stats is atrocious.  I look forward to another 7 paragraph reply of gobbledegook.  

It's not particularly surprising that you are having a really hard time fitting in on a forum where the typical member utilizes logic back up by statistics in order to formulate their opinions. I get that actually using your brain to think when forming opinions is beyond your capabilities but try your best to keep up.

I never suggested that Kirk is 94% of the player that Vlad is, those are your words and not mine. However Kirk has provided 94% of the overall FWAR that Vlad has in the last 3 seasons, and just signed a deal for approximately 1/3 of the term that will likely be required to sign Vlad long term at approximately 12% of the total financial outlay. That's a fantastic extension deal whether you have the mental acumen to understand that or not.

[Stangstag]

1 hour ago, Spanky99 said:

It takes a couple minutes, ya f***in bird.

Fair enough, i just did it. Learning from the master lol

[Stangstag]

1 hour ago, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

I've never seen someone twist themselves over and over again into a pretzel contradicting themselves as much as you do max silver.

 

You have way too much time on your hands if you are willing to spend so much of it trying to convince me to see things your way.  It's not going to work, I'm not a sheep.

Well… i’d say you’re the one with the sheep view of Vlad being worth 500mil but ok

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

1 hour ago, Stangstag said:

Well… i’d say you’re the one with the sheep view of Vlad being worth 500mil but ok

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

1 hour ago, max silver said:

It's not particularly surprising that you are having a really hard time fitting in on a forum where the typical member utilizes logic back up by statistics in order to formulate their opinions. I get that actually using your brain to think when forming opinions is beyond your capabilities but try your best to keep up.

I never suggested that Kirk is 94% of the player that Vlad is, those are your words and not mine. However Kirk has provided 94% of the overall FWAR that Vlad has in the last 3 seasons, and just signed a deal for approximately 1/3 of the term that will likely be required to sign Vlad long term at approximately 12% of the total financial outlay. That's a fantastic extension deal whether you have the mental acumen to understand that or not.

I'm living rent free in your head bud.  Why do you worry so much about my baseball opinions?  You think I'm trying to "fit in" here?  That's laughable. 

You think you're insulting me by saying stuff like that?

All you do is cherry pick stats to suit your argument, then when I point out how silly they are you just spin around and around in circles.  Like how you argued that Kirk was as valuable as Vlad over the past 3 seasons but then act like you didn't.

Think of the things you could accomplish if you weren't always writing essay replies to my posts.  It's quite funny.

Do you really think I care that much about your opinions?  

[max silver]

44 minutes ago, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

I'm living rent free in your head bud.  Why do you worry so much about my baseball opinions?  You think I'm trying to "fit in" here?  That's laughable. 

You think you're insulting me by saying stuff like that?

All you do is cherry pick stats to suit your argument, then when I point out how silly they are you just spin around and around in circles.  Like how you argued that Kirk was as valuable as Vlad over the past 3 seasons but then act like you didn't.

Think of the things you could accomplish if you weren't always writing essay replies to my posts.  It's quite funny.

Do you really think I care that much about your opinions?  

What makes you think that I "worry" about your opinions? I like to debate on message boards, and you are a particularly easy target to pick apart based on your lack of basic baseball acumen and proclivity for making statements that aren't rooted in reality or based in any sort of fact.

I've found that the default response of those unable to understand basic statistics is to claim that statistics are "cherrypicked" whenever someone presents any sort of statistics that support their argument.

You need to spend some time brushing up on your basic reading comprehension if you want to have any sort of chance of contributing anything to the discussion on this board aside from offering yourself up as a punching bag for other posters to utilize. It seems you are getting yourself confused. You said that I suggested that Kirk is 98% of the player that Vlad is, but I simply showed that he has provided 98% of the overall value to the Blue Jays since he became a full time regular. I fully admit to providing statistics that showed that Kirk has been nearly as valuable as Vlad, try to keep your facts straight. Having said that Vlad has a much higher overall ceiling than Kirk up to this point, peaking at 6.3 FWAR vs 4.4 FWAR for Kirk. Players get paid a lot more for offensive contributions than they do for their defensive contributions, and Vlad has a much higher offensive ceiling so it stands to reason that his eventual contract is going to be several magnitudes higher as a result.

[Key22]

8 hours ago, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

So Max, just curious - why am I not allowed to to have an opinion that this extension was offered too soon?

Why do I have to share your ridiculous views?

Blair and Barker - Barker doesn't think they should have extended Kirk when has another year under contract, is coming off two poor offensive years and hasn't caught more than 90 games.

So here's one issue. The Jays are $50m apart on Vladdy over possibly a 14-year contract. That is an extra 3.5m a year to meet Vladdy's demand.  The Kirk contract shouldn't be a hindrance since he is the only player on the books for 2030.

The Kirk deal is a gamble but they always talk about risk - if Kirk goes back to his career offensive year and catches 110 games then he would likely get a $80m/5 year deal from someone. And they're signing him before he turns 32 - so it's pretty decent when you factor in the Canada factor. You should try and keep guys who want to stay here and that often means we have to overpay.

 

 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

1 hour ago, max silver said:

What makes you think that I "worry" about your opinions? I like to debate on message boards, and you are a particularly easy target to pick apart based on your lack of basic baseball acumen and proclivity for making statements that aren't rooted in reality or based in any sort of fact.

I've found that the default response of those unable to understand basic statistics is to claim that statistics are "cherrypicked" whenever someone presents any sort of statistics that support their argument.

You need to spend some time brushing up on your basic reading comprehension if you want to have any sort of chance of contributing anything to the discussion on this board aside from offering yourself up as a punching bag for other posters to utilize. It seems you are getting yourself confused. You said that I suggested that Kirk is 98% of the player that Vlad is, but I simply showed that he has provided 98% of the overall value to the Blue Jays since he became a full time regular. I fully admit to providing statistics that showed that Kirk has been nearly as valuable as Vlad, try to keep your facts straight. Having said that Vlad has a much higher overall ceiling than Kirk up to this point, peaking at 6.3 FWAR vs 4.4 FWAR for Kirk. Players get paid a lot more for offensive contributions than they do for their defensive contributions, and Vlad has a much higher offensive ceiling so it stands to reason that his eventual contract is going to be several magnitudes higher as a result.

[Spanky99]

S'up... Delete my Account? Yes, the ball's being spiked early.