Non-Alonso, Robert, Bregman options

[Terminator]

If we whiff on Alonso and don't get Robert or Bregman, where should we turn?

• I've heard Austin Hays mentioned who could be an interesting bounce back candidate. 
• There's also Verdugo who I personally can't stand but he's a lefty bat and he actually plays good defense. 
• Grichuk could be a decent platoon guy.
• JD Martinez could be a good power bat but would clog up the DH spot.

Am I missing anyone? There's possible trades to be had too or we could even go internally with Buffalo Boys.

[Pendleton]

Gonna keep calling for us to sign Austin Hays. Still mashed lefties in a down year that can be excused to illness, but otherwise has always been a pretty productive hitter. He could be one of the best 'buy lows' of the off season 

[Jays24]

Go big or go home... for Atkins it's go big or get fired.  Those options will not feep the Jays afloat sadly. 

[Terminator]

4 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

Go big or go home... for Atkins it's go big or get fired.  Those options will not feep the Jays afloat sadly. 

Well what options are you thinking then?

Also, this is only for the offensive side of things. They could make a big move on the pitching side by signing Flaherty to a big contract or something.

[Jays24]

7 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Well what options are you thinking then?

Also, this is only for the offensive side of things. They could make a big move on the pitching side by signing Flaherty to a big contract or something.

They need to get one of Alonso/Bregman preferably or someone on that level.  We also need a pitcher but I'm confident in Gausman/Berrios to be good front end guys.  The offense MUST get another infusion to kick Springer out of the top 4 of the order.  Anything less takes all excitement away on that end. 

In regards to other particular names, hard to name names because we don't have an idea of who's actually available and for what price.  

[Orgfiller]

The issue with Grichuk or Hays is: who exactly are they platooning for? Obviously Varsho is the notable lefty in the lineup whom you'd PH for against a lefty reliever, but he's also far and away our best defender in CF. You take him out of the lineup and suddenly the outfield looks real bad defensively.

The bench needs a backup catcher, a backup SS/IF, a 4th OF and then one other player that could pinch hit. If you carry Hays or Grichuk as a platoon bat, then you must have Straw or someone capable to handle CF in case the former are used to hit for Varsho or start in his place. Maybe if Roden forces his hand out of Spring then they become relevant again. Hays is more platoon neutral than Grichuk, so he's closer to a proper 4th OF whereas the latter is more of a pure platoon bat that can start some games in the outfield here and there, but you don't want either starting games against RHP with any frequency.

The thing with platoon bats against LHP, is you're signing these guys to ideally get no more than like 200-300 PAs a season. A lefty platoon like Joc Pederson who'll never see a LHP is getting more like ~450 PAs a year.

[Orgfiller]

Why pay Austin Hays or Randal Grichuk $7-8M a year when there's like a 30% chance Davis Schneider might just be that guy for league minimum?

[Pendleton]

9 minutes ago, Orgfiller said:

The issue with Grichuk or Hays is: who exactly are they platooning for? Obviously Varsho is the notable lefty in the lineup whom you'd PH for against a lefty reliever, but he's also far and away our best defender in CF. You take him out of the lineup and suddenly the outfield looks real bad defensively.

The bench needs a backup catcher, a backup SS/IF, a 4th OF and then one other player that could pinch hit. If you carry Hays or Grichuk as a platoon bat, then you must have Straw or someone capable to handle CF in case the former are used to hit for Varsho or start in his place. Maybe if Roden forces his hand out of Spring then they become relevant again. Hays is more platoon neutral than Grichuk, so he's closer to a proper 4th OF whereas the latter is more of a pure platoon bat that can start some games in the outfield here and there, but you don't want either starting games against RHP with any frequency.

 

Hays had extreme splits last year and was terrible against righties, but I'm writing off 2024 and looking at his healthy 2022 and 2023 where he managed a 108  and 111 wRC+ against righties in 422 and 399 PA appearances. In an ideal world, we can steal an every day bat who is well above average against righties and destroys lefties.  

[Jimcanuck]

Luis Urias

[jaysblue]

53 minutes ago, Terminator said:

If we whiff on Alonso and don't get Robert or Bregman, where should we turn?

• I've heard Austin Hays mentioned who could be an interesting bounce back candidate. 
• There's also Verdugo who I personally can't stand but he's a lefty bat and he actually plays good defense. 
• Grichuk could be a decent platoon guy.
• JD Martinez could be a good power bat but would clog up the DH spot.

Am I missing anyone? There's possible trades to be had too or we could even go internally with Buffalo Boys.

If the Jays strike out on Alonso and Bregman, wouldn't mind them spending that money on an arm like Flaherty. 

[Chappy]

1 minute ago, jaysblue said:

If the Jays strike out on Alonso and Bregman, wouldn't mind them spending that money on an arm like Flaherty. 

Flaherty is the guy I been hoping for all winter.  

[glory]

Sign a SP and go internal offensively (Barger, Orelvis, Wagner, Roden, etc...whoever rakes in Spring Training). Not sure that's the best way to go if 2025 is a contention year, but wasting money on marginal 1 WAR position players is what the team did last winter and it's not going to help them short or long term. I wouldn't mind a buy low on Moncada at 3B since it should be cheap or a trade for someone like Jesus Sanchez with the hopes of his exit velo/barrels/bat speed having breakout potential, but beyond that, if it's not Alonso/Bregman/Robert, then I don't think there's a real difference maker out there. Just go internal and live with the consequences. 

[Laika]

I mean there's Kim, and Flaherty, but I am guessing you mean we whiff on them too. 

Honestly it doesn't make sense to sign anybody if Alonso/Bregman/Flaherty/Kim/Scherzer/Pivetta are not options. The incumbents mash together to project for league average-ish production at the weak spots. 

You could sign like, James McCann and JDM but what does that really accomplish? Anything? 

I would just dump money into the best RPs left. Get Kenley and Estevez or whoever. Maybe Kyle Hart too? 

[Terminator]

Dumping the money into the bullpen is a good idea. Especially if it's a one year deal.

[Rimar]

If we can't get someone like Alonso, Bregman, Robert, Flaherty, it's time to part away with Atkins and replace him with Slater., before too late. Then start a soft rebuild trading Vlad, Bo, Bassitt.

[L54]

I’d give Yoan Moncada a chance to bounce back

[jaysblue]

37 minutes ago, L54 said:

I’d give Yoan Moncada a chance to bounce back

I would as well, depending on the price. 

Though we already have Ernie Clement 😅

[jaysblue]

2 hours ago, Terminator said:

Dumping the money into the bullpen is a good idea. Especially if it's a one year deal.

Yeah not a bad idea. Can always move BP pieces at the deadline as well. 

[Laika]

It's just weird to me that you guys can watch Ernie Clement be decent in 2024... and watch Yoan Moncada suck for three years... and see that Clement is younger and projects better... and still want to sign Moncada and give him Clement's job? 

There is no statistical or logical argument for it. Just wishcasting for 24 or 26 year old Moncada. 

[Terminator]

I think it's a few things which are understandable.

People just don't trust Clement because he's a weird player, no pedigree, etc. He's also mostly been a part-time player and sometimes those guys get exposed when they play full-time (Fangraphs wrote about this recently). 

As for Moncada, he does have pedigree and used to be good. I think fans wave away injuries too easily and bc other than Bregman he's the only guy on the FA market that is an option so people are probably more optimistic with him than they should be. Plus, he should be cheap.

Regardless, I wouldn't hate signing him as it could add some depth to the position and could even lead to a Clement/Moncada platoon. But it would need to be on a dirt cheap contract. He's not worth much more than that. I also don't mind rolling with Ernie and Barger and others can mix in too.

[L54]

1 hour ago, Laika said:

It's just weird to me that you guys can watch Ernie Clement be decent in 2024... and watch Yoan Moncada suck for three years... and see that Clement is younger and projects better... and still want to sign Moncada and give him Clement's job? 

There is no statistical or logical argument for it. Just wishcasting for 24 or 26 year old Moncada. 

3B depth chart 

Ernie Clement 

Addison Barger 

Orelvis Martinez 

Josh Kasevich 

SS depth chart 

Bo Bichette 

Ernie Clement 

Leo Jimenez 

Josh Kasevich 
 

No logical reason to push any of these guys down. Great defenders with xWOBA’s below .300 

[glory]

2 hours ago, Terminator said:

I think it's a few things which are understandable.

People just don't trust Clement because he's a weird player, no pedigree, etc. He's also mostly been a part-time player and sometimes those guys get exposed when they play full-time (Fangraphs wrote about this recently). 

As for Moncada, he does have pedigree and used to be good. I think fans wave away injuries too easily and bc other than Bregman he's the only guy on the FA market that is an option so people are probably more optimistic with him than they should be. Plus, he should be cheap.

Regardless, I wouldn't hate signing him as it could add some depth to the position and could even lead to a Clement/Moncada platoon. But it would need to be on a dirt cheap contract. He's not worth much more than that. I also don't mind rolling with Ernie and Barger and others can mix in too.

I think that's what it would be, taking a chance on an oft-injured former top prospect who has had MLB success but hasn't been consistent and has been hurt too much. I can't imagine it's going to cost that much on a 1 year deal. If it fails, then move on to Clement or whoever, but the Jays need stuff like this to break in their favor if they want to contend. 

[Terminator]

2 hours ago, glory said:

I think that's what it would be, taking a chance on an oft-injured former top prospect who has had MLB success but hasn't been consistent and has been hurt too much. I can't imagine it's going to cost that much on a 1 year deal. If it fails, then move on to Clement or whoever, but the Jays need stuff like this to break in their favor if they want to contend. 

The problem is he can probably sign a 1 year deal with some s***** team and have a free and clear path to 3B ABs. If he signs here he's probably in a platoon with Clement to start the year.

[Brownie19]

What would it cost to acquire Lars Nootbar?

What are the Cards doing with Jordan Walker these days?

[G-Snarls]

The Reds have agreed to a one-year, $5MM deal with outfielder Austin Hays, reports Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. 

[Terminator]

1 hour ago, Brownie19 said:

What would it cost to acquire Lars Nootbar?

What are the Cards doing with Jordan Walker these days?

They have a ton of guys we would be interested in.

Not sure they want to move the cheaper guys but Sonny Gray, Helsley, Arenado (he won't waive his no trade clause to come here because he's an avowed xenophobe), etc. could all be had.

Sonny Gray would be a great target.

[Orgfiller]

17 minutes ago, Terminator said:

They have a ton of guys we would be interested in.

Not sure they want to move the cheaper guys but Sonny Gray, Helsley, Arenado (he won't waive his no trade clause to come here because he's an avowed xenophobe), etc. could all be had.

Sonny Gray would be a great target.

Not sure we could afford Gray without moving another big contract like Bassitt or Springer. The Cards certainly wouldn't need to eat any salary there like they may need to for Arenado.

[Terminator]

3 minutes ago, Orgfiller said:

Not sure we could afford Gray without moving another big contract like Bassitt or Springer. The Cards certainly wouldn't need to eat any salary there like they may need to for Arenado.

Yeah idk. We are hearing Alonso and Scherzer rumors. Not sure how true those are but Gray's 25 million could be a fit along those same lines but we would probably have to kiss Alonso goodbye?

[Jimcanuck]

4 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

What would it cost to acquire Lars Nootbar?

What are the Cards doing with Jordan Walker these days?

Cards are in rebuild mode and have commited to full time MLB for Walker in 2025

Possibly once Bregman signs, Arenado gets moved

 

[Laika]

I wouldn't call it a rebuild. More of a "reduce payroll this year" mode. They still have Gray, Fedde, Mikolas, Matz, Helsley, Arenado, Contreras if they were doing a hard rebuild more of those guys would be gone. They are at least trying to fake being competitive or they want a 4% chance of making the WC for some reason.