Jays sign Anthony Santander

[Brownie19]

20 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

I don't think the Jays need to offer up what he *might* get paid in free agency.  Vlad sees what Santander signed for after weeks of negotiations, and Bregman still without a Contract.  I expect Vlad does not want to go through the FA wringer.  Unless he wants to leave the Jays, which is certainly possible, he will sign a somewhat competitive offer from the Jays.  10/360 with deferrals and opt outs?

No way he signs for $360M with deferrals.  I could see $360M after you factor in the deferrals and that's the cap hit equivalent.  Maybe...still seems low.  I think he gets $450M with deferrals.

[G-Snarls]

15 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

No way he signs for $360M with deferrals.  I could see $360M after you factor in the deferrals and that's the cap hit equivalent.  Maybe...still seems low.  I think he gets $450M with deferrals.

450 is pretty do able if you make it 12 years instead of 10 and defer a decent chunk of it. 

[Jimcanuck]

Sorry, $450M for Vlad is crazy, won't happen unless he goes to FA and Cohen opens his wallet.

[Terminator]

3 minutes ago, G-Snarls said:

450 is pretty do able if you make it 12 years instead of 10 and defer a decent chunk of it. 

Sounds insane but just give him 14 years. Takes him through his age 40 season and the extra years will save the team in tax money significantly. I doubt he cares about hitting FA at age 39 and 40 anyway.

Then stuff it with as many deferrals as possible. 

[Vancouverite]

18 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

Sorry, $450M for Vlad is crazy, won't happen unless he goes to FA and Cohen opens his wallet.

I agree here i just don't see how any sane GM or team can justify giving Vladdy this much money

 

Mets f***ed up the market with Soto and now the superstars i think will have unrealistic expectations 

 

40M a year just seem nuts. Take this off-season as an example you probably can sign Bregman and Santander for that money....

[Stangstag]

7 hours ago, Jimcanuck said:

I don't think the Jays need to offer up what he *might* get paid in free agency.  Vlad sees what Santander signed for after weeks of negotiations, and Bregman still without a Contract.  I expect Vlad does not want to go through the FA wringer.  Unless he wants to leave the Jays, which is certainly possible, he will sign a somewhat competitive offer from the Jays.  10/360 with deferrals and opt outs?

You’re assuming Vlad has a brain

[Barrelsandbombs]

IIRC didn't Vlad (and/or his agent) say he isn't interested in signing a contract with deferrals?

Doesn't mean they can't tack on extra years to lower the AAV though. That should still be on the table.

[Jimcanuck]

If Vlad competently played a position like SS or CF, instead of being a defensive liability at 1B (lol) and a liability on the basepaths, then sure $45 to 50M a year would be market value.  As is, there is no way his market value approaches, much less exceeds, $40M a year.

[L54]

14 hours ago, max silver said:

The signing period lasts until December 15th so there's plenty of time to spend it or trade it.

No I mean money forfeited by teams when they sign QO players 

[Terminator]

2 hours ago, Barrelsandbombs said:

IIRC didn't Vlad (and/or his agent) say he isn't interested in signing a contract with deferrals?

Doesn't mean they can't tack on extra years to lower the AAV though. That should still be on the table.

Yeah he either said that or it was leaked but that could just be posturing.

[max silver]

45 minutes ago, L54 said:

No I mean money forfeited by teams when they sign QO players 

Ah gotcha. This is just one of the many reasons how the current qualifying offer system does nothing but hurt the players. But of course MLB wanted to attach a million strings to removing the qualifying offer system such as implementing an international draft.

[L54]

20 minutes ago, max silver said:

Ah gotcha. This is just one of the many reasons how the current qualifying offer system does nothing but hurt the players. But of course MLB wanted to attach a million strings to removing the qualifying offer system such as implementing an international draft.

Right but in this example it’s actually hurting the international signees because if that money is just eliminated from the total pool, that’s 500K that doesn’t go to one or two or 10 different kids 

[L54]

But I agree with you max I don’t love the way the QO is structured right now. It can really hamper the great but not elite free agents. The guys below don’t have to worry about getting QO’d

[max silver]

14 minutes ago, L54 said:

Right but in this example it’s actually hurting the international signees because if that money is just eliminated from the total pool, that’s 500K that doesn’t go to one or two or 10 different kids 

I get the impression that the MLB players union didn't particularly care that much about the international free agents and prioritized guys that were actually in the union during contract negotiations over the years. 

[max silver]

14 minutes ago, L54 said:

But I agree with you max I don’t love the way the QO is structured right now. It can really hamper the great but not elite free agents. The guys below don’t have to worry about getting QO’d

I believe it's possible that the players may actually be better off if the league implemented a salary cap system that made the qualifying offer system disappear completely. The top end could be some semi outrageous sum like $350-400 million or whatever that would still allow the top few clubs to flex their financial muscle. I believe a floor would force the lower end teams to actually spend on their clubs vs pocketing the revenue sharing funds. I believe if the league was forced to open the books and set the cap to increase over time based on league revenues that the players would be better off in the end, particularly the mid range guys are really getting the shaft in recent years in free agency, particularly those that are barely good enough to receive a qualifying offer. The high end earners also happened to be a lot of the players who tended to populate the unions negotiating group and it feels like they tended to negotiate a lot based on the needs of the top few earners in the game while sort of ignoring the lower income earners of the sport. 

[Stangstag]

13 minutes ago, max silver said:

I believe it's possible that the players may actually be better off if the league implemented a salary cap system that made the qualifying offer system disappear completely. The top end could be some semi outrageous sum like $350-400 million or whatever that would still allow the top few clubs to flex their financial muscle. I believe a floor would force the lower end teams to actually spend on their clubs vs pocketing the revenue sharing funds. I believe if the league was forced to open the books and set the cap to increase over time based on league revenues that the players would be better off in the end, particularly the mid range guys are really getting the shaft in recent years in free agency, particularly those that are barely good enough to receive a qualifying offer. The high end earners also happened to be a lot of the players who tended to populate the unions negotiating group and it feels like they tended to negotiate a lot based on the needs of the top few earners in the game while sort of ignoring the lower income earners of the sport. 

A lot of things in the world would be better with a system like this.

Unfortunately, the rich only care about getting richer and the union reps are made up of some of the top paid guys in the sport.

They will never settle for a system that sees the top paid guys have a cap, even if it means more for the rookies/younger guys/journeymen

[Spanky99]

19 hours ago, L54 said:

What happens to forfeited international money? If the money isn’t redistributed it only hurts the players 

I would think all the forfeitures get allocated back into the IFA pool.             

[G-Snarls]

20 hours ago, Stangstag said:

If he gets deferrals to make the luxury hit closer to 25 mil per year i’d be extremely happy. Even though I dont think signing him long-term is the right move.

12-14 years with deferrals could get you under 30 at least.  But yeah he's likely gonna be another 40+ year old Albert Pujols by the last 1/3 of it.  

[Stangstag]

9 minutes ago, G-Snarls said:

12-14 years with deferrals could get you under 30 at least.  But yeah he's likely gonna be another 40+ year old Albert Pujols by the last 1/3 it.  

Right, i think a lot of people are forgetting literal hall of fame talents like Pujols and Miggy turned into absolute albatross contracts shortly after hitting age 30.

And Vlad isn’t even on their level if you look at the first handful of seasons each guy had.

Vlad will almost certainly age extremely poorly starting around age 30, which means you’re getting roughly 5-7 good years of a potential 15 year deal.

[Terminator]

4 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Right, i think a lot of people are forgetting literal hall of fame talents like Pujols and Miggy turned into absolute albatross contracts shortly after hitting age 30.

And Vlad isn’t even on their level if you look at the first handful of seasons each guy had.

Vlad will almost certainly age extremely poorly starting around age 30, which means you’re getting roughly 5-7 good years of a potential 15 year deal.

Yeah Miggy put up 5.3 WAR in his age 33 season and then he hit a WALL. He had negative WAR from age 34-40.

Pujols was playable from age 33-36 before hitting the wall and then had the deadcat bounce in his age 42 season.

[max silver]

5 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Right, i think a lot of people are forgetting literal hall of fame talents like Pujols and Miggy turned into absolute albatross contracts shortly after hitting age 30.

And Vlad isn’t even on their level if you look at the first handful of seasons each guy had.

Vlad will almost certainly age extremely poorly starting around age 30, which means you’re getting roughly 5-7 good years of a potential 15 year deal.

Cabrera still managed a 5+ win season at the age of 33. I believe he started to take a dramatic downturn after back issues started to become an issue for him.

[Spanky99]

Vlad's just 26 , it's a tough decision.  Pujols and Miggy won Rings.... Flags Fly Forever!

 

[Stangstag]

12 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Yeah Miggy put up 5.3 WAR in his age 33 season and then he hit a WALL. He had negative WAR from age 34-40.

Pujols was playable from age 33-36 before hitting the wall and then had the deadcat bounce in his age 42 season.

I would consider a 1B with a wRC+ of 120 being paid 35 mil a year an albatross contract 

[L54]

5 hours ago, Spanky99 said:

I would think all the forfeitures get allocated back into the IFA pool.             

Distributed evenly amongst the other 29 teams?

[Spanky99]

35 minutes ago, L54 said:

Distributed evenly amongst the other 29 teams?

Yeah, I would think so, right?

[Stangstag]

I just saw that Santander is taking Varsho's number 25

What the F am i supposed to do with my Varsho jersey now

[Orgfiller]

2 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

I just saw that Santander is taking Varsho's number 25

What the F am i supposed to do with my Varsho jersey now

I thought the announcement about Varsho changing his jersey number came before Santander signed, but maybe that was him hinting at it.

[Brownie19]

42 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

I just saw that Santander is taking Varsho's number 25

What the F am i supposed to do with my Varsho jersey now

Duct tape and a sharpie man.  

[Terminator]

13.7 AAV is nuts. That's almost half of what people thought he would get.

[wilko]

8 minutes ago, Terminator said:

13.7 AAV is nuts

Atkins cooked with that deal.