[Davidi] The industry seems to have treated the Blue Jays like the party guest who’s a two at 10 p.m. just waiting to become someone’s 10 at 2 a.m.

[L54]

9 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Do you really think that free agents like Anthony Santander won't sign here for reasons other than money?

If the Jays really wanted him they could sign him tonight. They just don't think he's worth what he's asking for and apparently all of the other teams agree. 

It looks like Anthony Santander is going to hold out hope that anybody will offer him what Toronto is 

Great we signed Kendrys Morales to play the outfield. 27.5M/year for 2 WAR 

Not impressive man 

[L54]

I’d rather give Vlad 35M/year for the next 13 years than give Santander 25M for the next four 

[L54]

12 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

We should be trading Varsho this season - as soon as he's healthy.  He's a FA after 2026.

He will be Ross’ third extension 

5/120M

[Key22]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

This video is painfully accurate. I just went through all of this when selling a bunch of our old home furnishings as we recently redecorated. The worst I encountered were potential "buyers" who asked if I would be willing to deliver stuff to them that I was giving away for free. FFS.

I tried to donate a couch to a charity - I can't remember if it was Diabetes or Salvation Army - they came to my place to pick it up and turned it down because it was a floral print. Sure it's out of style - but the thing is really well built and in perfect condition with real wood not some MDF junk from IKEA. I had to deliver it to Value Village where they sold it within the week. So somebody didn't care that it had flowers on it - I mean just put a blanket over it or reupholster it.

I understand why people trade in cars to dealers - they lose money - yes - but sometimes the hassle and time aren't worth it. I remember trying to sell my Kia SUV and people asked me if it was a 7-seater. It says right in the ad 5 seater. uggh. I sold it to a dealer. Kia offered me $9k. GM dealer gave me $11,500. I could have sold it for $13,000. But I was moving overseas and I tried to sell it for about a month with no takers so I took the $11,500. The manager also offered me a job when I returned to Canada.

I have an appreciation for salespeople - they have to deal with this stuff all day every day - we deal with it now and then when we want to sell 1 or 2 things. eesh.

[SuperFuzzBigMuff]

5 minutes ago, L54 said:

I’d rather give Vlad 35M/year for the next 13 years than give Santander 25M for the next four 

Do you think Vladdy is going to play into his late 30s? He has his mother's flabby genetics. 

[Key22]

4 minutes ago, L54 said:

I’d rather give Vlad 35M/year for the next 13 years than give Santander 25M for the next four 

What about $500m/16 - that is $31.5m a year.  If you can defer some of it to lower the overall hit. That would be a big enough number so he can Flex but perhaps the actual hit will be in the low $400m range where the Jays can absorb it. No one will really care about the last 3-4 years. That will be some other GM's problem.

 

[L54]

guys I don’t frucking know

Im just saying I would rather pay Vlad than Santander 

[Terminator]

20 minutes ago, Key22 said:

What about $500m/16 - that is $31.5m a year.  If you can defer some of it to lower the overall hit. That would be a big enough number so he can Flex but perhaps the actual hit will be in the low $400m range where the Jays can absorb it. No one will really care about the last 3-4 years. That will be some other GM's problem.

 

If the team is going to give him 400+ million, I think there is some wisdom on giving him a 15-16 year deal, especially if the team is going to be in the luxury tax bracket moving forward since it will save the team money by lowering the tax hit.

-15-16 year deal which takes him through his age 41 season lol

-see if you can rip up the final year of arb (it shaves a year off his deal but he can claim a larger FA contract)

-give him a signing bonus (try and avoid Canadian taxes)

-stuff it with as many deferrals as possible (helps lower his present day value for the team, he can avoid taxes and gets a larger sticker shock)

[Brownie19]

17 minutes ago, L54 said:

guys I don’t frucking know

Im just saying I would rather pay Vlad than Santander 

Yeah I don't like the idea of Santander on a 4+ year deal.  I keep trying to convince myself he's just Teo, but blah...can't get excited about it.

[Terminator]

36 minutes ago, L54 said:

It looks like Anthony Santander is going to hold out hope that anybody will offer him what Toronto is 

Great we signed Kendrys Morales to play the outfield. 27.5M/year for 2 WAR 

Not impressive man 

Rips the team for not signing 2 WAR OFers like Teoscar to 25 mil a year

Also rips the team for theoretically signing 2 WAR OFers like Tony Taters to 25 mil a year

 

[L54]

1 minute ago, Terminator said:

Rips the team for not signing 2 WAR OFers like Teoscar to 25 mil a year

Also rips the team for theoretically signing 2 WAR OFers like Tony Taters to 25 mil a year

 

Where did I rip the team for not signing Teoscar?

[L54]

Hint: it didn’t happen 

look I get it. You guys wanna be positive and will view almost any signing at this point as a masterclass put on by Atkins 

all for the shot at WC3 because “you just gotta get in” 

I strongly disagree with this approach 

[Terminator]

5 minutes ago, L54 said:

Where did I rip the team for not signing Teoscar?

If you didn't my mistake.

But what free agents are you in fact ripping the team for not signing then? You are definitely complaining about the lack of Free Agent signings in general, but when pressed on two of them you actually think they shouldn't sign one (Tony) and don't care about the other (Teo)?

What FAs are you talking about here?

1 hour ago, L54 said:

Can’t wait to see what kind of deals Ross finds this Boxing Day!! We sure sound confident he’s ready to pounce 

Or nobody wants to sign here because the team sucks ass and will be building around Alejandro Kirk and Daulton Varsho in 2026 

[L54]

16 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Yeah I don't like the idea of Santander on a 4+ year deal.  I keep trying to convince myself he's just Teo, but blah...can't get excited about it.

Me either. I’d rather Bregman as an infielder and good defender with excellent plate discipline 

[L54]

2 minutes ago, Terminator said:

If you didn't my mistake.

But what free agents are you in fact ripping the team for? You are definitely complaining about the lack of Free Agent signings in general, but when pressed on two of them you actually think they shouldn't sign one (Tony) and don't care about the other (Teo)?

What FAs are you talking about then?

See Term, you’re just throwing s*** at the wall and seeing what sticks  

I haven’t ripped them for not signing anybody or the lack of signings. I thought my stance has been pretty clear but here it is 

The team can’t sign anybody who will actually impact 2025 because the team has no direction and free agents can see that

I have said more than once that if they wanna go for it sign 1 year deals and stay away from anyone with a QO because we need picks and draft capital to spend  

But here I am being tarred and feathered for something I didn’t even do

[L54]

 

[Terminator]

18 minutes ago, L54 said:

See Term, you’re just throwing s*** at the wall and seeing what sticks  

I haven’t ripped them for not signing anybody or the lack of signings. I thought my stance has been pretty clear but here it is 

The team can’t sign anybody who will actually impact 2025 because the team has no direction and free agents can see that

I have said more than once that if they wanna go for it sign 1 year deals and stay away from anyone with a QO because we need picks and draft capital to spend  

But here I am being tarred and feathered for something I didn’t even do

My bad. You threw out the standard "Ross can't sign anybody because the team sucks" post with regard to the remaining FAs and Tony Taters is like the 2nd or 3rd best guy left so forgive me for thinking you were talking about him. Teo has been more talked about than anyone so I wrongly assumed you meant him too.

With the added nuance of your quoted post, I can now say that you have a very solid viewpoint, even though you like to venture into jaysblue territory (might as well tar and feather him while I'm at it) by making overly whiny posts to vent your frustration every once in a while. 

But I see what you are saying now and I agree that the state of the franchise does affect them more, especially when it comes to the Top Tier FAs (the true "impact" guys as you say) because the top teams will be in on them and the offers seemingly all top out around the same. The Tony Taters of the world are more worried about pure cash so we can still sign those overpaid turds. We actually don't disagree that much.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

58 minutes ago, L54 said:

Hint: it didn’t happen 

look I get it. You guys wanna be positive and will view almost any signing at this point as a masterclass put on by Atkins 

all for the shot at WC3 because “you just gotta get in” 

I strongly disagree with this approach 

My feelings exactly.  Well said

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

49 minutes ago, L54 said:

See Term, you’re just throwing s*** at the wall and seeing what sticks  

I haven’t ripped them for not signing anybody or the lack of signings. I thought my stance has been pretty clear but here it is 

The team can’t sign anybody who will actually impact 2025 because the team has no direction and free agents can see that

I have said more than once that if they wanna go for it sign 1 year deals and stay away from anyone with a QO because we need picks and draft capital to spend  

But here I am being tarred and feathered for something I didn’t even do

I agree with all of this except I don't want Shatkins making these decisions.  Time for a rebuild with the proper management.

These guys screwed up not extending Bichette and Guerrero years ago.  Now it's going to cost 500 mill give or take for Vlad and Bo's value is at an all time low because of the injury/down year.

Some of it is bad luck but most of it is poor decisions.  These guys are supposed to be good at this, and they simply aren't.

We are a league-wide laughing-stock.  Fire these guys yesterday and get someone smart in here to extend and build around Vlad.  That's all I wanted for Christmas.  Not a bunch of panic FA signings in an attempt to save Shatkins' jobs.

Just start the rebuild already.  But with a different captain steering the ship!

[max silver]

1 minute ago, Vladdywagon said:

I agree with all of this except I don't want Shatkins making these decisions.  Time for a rebuild with the proper management.

These guys screwed up not extending Bichette and Guerrero years ago.  Now it's going to cost 500 mill give or take for Vlad and Bo's value is at an all time low because of the injury/down year.

Some of it is bad luck but most of it is poor decisions.  These guys are supposed to be good at this, and they simply aren't.

We are a league-wide laughing-stock.  Fire these guys yesterday and get someone smart in here to extend and build around Vlad.  That's all I wanted for Christmas.  Not a bunch of panic FA signings in an attempt to save Shatkins' jobs.

Just start the rebuild already.  But with a different captain steering the ship!

Firing an entire front office right now would be a total panic move, the time to do this would be at the conclusion of the regular season so a proper search and interview period can be conducted. Like it or not we are likely stuck with this group for at least another season if not longer.

[Jays24]

11 minutes ago, max silver said:

Firing an entire front office right now would be a total panic move, the time to do this would be at the conclusion of the regular season so a proper search and interview period can be conducted. Like it or not we are likely stuck with this group for at least another season if not longer.

This franchise should have started panicking after the Berrios fiasco... the fact we've kept the status quo from then until now is exactly why we're the laughing stock of the league. 

The move should have happened before this off-season started to give a fresh look to Vlad/Bo and the rest of baseball.  Rogers is so braindead that they couldn't figure this out...

[Spanky99]

2 hours ago, L54 said:

I’d rather give Vlad 35M/year for the next 13 years than give Santander 25M for the next four 

More like 10/450 is what he wants.

[Jays24]

20 minutes ago, Spanky99 said:

More like 10/450 is what he wants.

Went from no 1st baseman has cracked the 300M mark to him wanting 450M in a matter of months.  Just get a haul from the Mets and sign Alonso for a third of that.  

There are so many ways to make this team a contender with or without Vlad.  Let's get the show on the road already. 

[L54]

2 hours ago, Terminator said:

My bad. You threw out the standard "Ross can't sign anybody because the team sucks" post with regard to the remaining FAs and Tony Taters is like the 2nd or 3rd best guy left so forgive me for thinking you were talking about him. Teo has been more talked about than anyone so I wrongly assumed you meant him too.

With the added nuance of your quoted post, I can now say that you have a very solid viewpoint, even though you like to venture into jaysblue territory (might as well tar and feather him while I'm at it) by making overly whiny posts to vent your frustration every once in a while. 

But I see what you are saying now and I agree that the state of the franchise does affect them more, especially when it comes to the Top Tier FAs (the true "impact" guys as you say) because the top teams will be in on them and the offers seemingly all top out around the same. The Tony Taters of the world are more worried about pure cash so we can still sign those overpaid turds. We actually don't disagree that much.

It’s not whining at all. Not even sure how you get that from my posts. Overly sarcastic yes but I’m far from a whiner 

No we don’t disagree much and honestly most of us are congruent in how we view the team currently, just that everyone has their own opinion on how to move forward 

I am a fan of the game more than anything so even if the Jays are stuck in purgatory for the next 5 years I will still be fired up for the start of the new season. I can’t imagine living and dying with any sports team now that I’m older and wiser  

[max silver]

2 hours ago, Jays24 said:

This franchise should have started panicking after the Berrios fiasco... the fact we've kept the status quo from then until now is exactly why we're the laughing stock of the league. 

The move should have happened before this off-season started to give a fresh look to Vlad/Bo and the rest of baseball.  Rogers is so braindead that they couldn't figure this out...

I really don't understand the continued consternation over the quick pull of Berrios in the playoffs. The team failed to score any runs after the early season RISP issue reared it's ugly head again in the playoffs. 

[Carlos Danger]

32 minutes ago, max silver said:

I really don't understand the continued consternation over the quick pull of Berrios in the playoffs. The team failed to score any runs after the early season RISP issue reared it's ugly head again in the playoffs. 

You are correct. However, in addition to the lack of run support there were comments by Bo, Berrios and even the FO that basically there were communication issues and there also needed to be improvement on how information is communicated from everything to game prep to the Berrios situation. Then, there was the question if John really made that decision with insiders across the board saying the FO created the environment that basically put his back up against the wall. 

The cherry on top and my last straw with Atkins when he lacked integrity, leadership and professionalism and thew John  under the bus in the press conference.

Ross was dead to me from that point on. 

[Carlos Danger]

For me too many Red Flags with Vlad to go 10, 12, 16 Years!!??

Many in the industry think the Yankees are now better as a whole after the pivot from Soto. I think we have the opportunity to do the same.

 

One other RED FLAG- From former MLB players, so don't shoot the messenger. 

As soon as the it was clear the Jays were out of it in 2024. i,e the pressure was off is the same time Vladdy got hot. There are questions as to how Vladdy handles the pressure and being the "Core" . 

My opinion now: Vlad definitely likes being considered the top dog and the "Core" and things like HR derbies etc.. However, I have not really seen much sustainable when there is direct pressure on him and I certainly saw bone head base running etc at key moments in the playoffs.

In 2021 he had Semien and others, 2022, 2023 he was meh, sucked to start 2024, then when Team out of it, he went on a tear.

Just one consideration in totality. 

[Spanky99]

2 hours ago, Jays24 said:

Went from no 1st baseman has cracked the 300M mark to him wanting 450M in a matter of months.  Just get a haul from the Mets and sign Alonso for a third of that.  

There are so many ways to make this team a contender with or without Vlad.  Let's get the show on the road already. 

Nah, he wanted 10/400 coming into the offseason to shatter that number, now he's lost his mind and wants more. 🤪

[max silver]

8 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

For me too many Red Flags with Vlad to go 10, 12, 16 Years!!??

Many in the industry think the Yankees are now better as a whole after the pivot from Soto. I think we have the opportunity to do the same.

 

One other RED FLAG- From former MLB players, so don't shoot the messenger. 

As soon as the it was clear the Jays were out of it in 2024. i,e the pressure was off is the same time Vladdy got hot. There are questions as to how Vladdy handles the pressure and being the "Core" . 

My opinion now: Vlad definitely likes being considered the top dog and the "Core" and things like HR derbies etc.. However, I have not really seen much sustainable when there is direct pressure on him and I certainly saw bone head base running etc at key moments in the playoffs.

In 2021 he had Semien and others, 2022, 2023 he was meh, sucked to start 2024, then when Team out of it, he went on a tear.

Just one consideration in totality. 

The Vlad is only good when it doesn't count theory is great until you remember that Vlad's best ever season came in 2021 when the team was in the thick of the playoff hunt under maximum pressure due to how close the race was.

[BatFlip]

9 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

For me too many Red Flags with Vlad to go 10, 12, 16 Years!!??

Many in the industry think the Yankees are now better as a whole after the pivot from Soto. I think we have the opportunity to do the same.

 

One other RED FLAG- From former MLB players, so don't shoot the messenger. 

As soon as the it was clear the Jays were out of it in 2024. i,e the pressure was off is the same time Vladdy got hot. There are questions as to how Vladdy handles the pressure and being the "Core" . 

My opinion now: Vlad definitely likes being considered the top dog and the "Core" and things like HR derbies etc.. However, I have not really seen much sustainable when there is direct pressure on him and I certainly saw bone head base running etc at key moments in the playoffs.

In 2021 he had Semien and others, 2022, 2023 he was meh, sucked to start 2024, then when Team out of it, he went on a tear.

Just one consideration in totality. 

I'm not sure about the whole "doesn't perform under pressure" thing, but the multiple examples of lackadaisical base running when everything was on the line really pissed me off.   

The big red flag for me is the physical preparation he's displayed paired with his big bones and natural appetite.

There's no way you go $400M for this guy, but that's just my opinion and I'm glad I'm not making the call on this one.  My fear is that he goes on to another team and puts together a hall of fame hitting resume.  I'll then get to read, on a daily basis, the ranting and raving from the resident peanut gallery (who said he should be salary dumped 7 months ago) about how they knew this is how things would turn out.