General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2025)

[Laika]

should have been done a while ago but at least they did it now! 

i don't know how they will work the playing time. it doesn't look like they want to fully platoon Barger; he is in there today at 3B against a LHP. There is a bit of a Lukes-Straw platoon happening but they shouldn't cut into Lukes' playing time in favour of Roden. Clase deserves some PAs and has been contributing. 

Probably what they should do is DH Springer (worst OAA on the team) full time and platoon both corner spots with Roden+Lukes / Straw+Clase. 

 

[Orgfiller]

13 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

Assuming a decent portion of Raleigh's defensive WAR comes from his framing ability I would think this is a hard comparison to do for season's that occurred before Statcast.

Definitely fair, although one could say that since framing is at least most recently a sought after skill which most of the league now actively works on, it's probably still a fair comparison. Like in a league where framing is a core component that teams look for, Cal Raleigh still grades out highly among his peers, and WAR reflects that since the base level replacement level catcher may have improved.

[Orgfiller]

SSS alert re: defense, so take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt and feel free to respond with the very valid "this is all just noise" comment, but Vlad thus far is not grading out as one of the worst defenders in the league.

Potential wishful thinking explanation: could playing alongside elite 2B defenders like Gimenez and now Ernie for the season be masking his poor range? He was playing with some absolute butchers last season in the likes of Spencer Hortwitz, Davis Schneider, etc. meaning guys with already limited range who could barely play a position. So now that Gimenez and Ernie are covering for his poor range attempts to his right, he can cheat to getting balls near the 1B bag instead.

Did Ross Atkins cook with the Gimenez acquisition by indirectly adding 0.5 wins to Vlad's season over season WAR? Many people are asking this question.

[Terminator]

2 hours ago, Orgfiller said:

SSS alert re: defense, so take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt and feel free to respond with the very valid "this is all just noise" comment, but Vlad thus far is not grading out as one of the worst defenders in the league.

Potential wishful thinking explanation: could playing alongside elite 2B defenders like Gimenez and now Ernie for the season be masking his poor range? He was playing with some absolute butchers last season in the likes of Spencer Hortwitz, Davis Schneider, etc. meaning guys with already limited range who could barely play a position. So now that Gimenez and Ernie are covering for his poor range attempts to his right, he can cheat to getting balls near the 1B bag instead.

Did Ross Atkins cook with the Gimenez acquisition by indirectly adding 0.5 wins to Vlad's season over season WAR? Many people are asking this question.

Hmm, he's showing improvements with both OAA and DRS. Maybe you are on to something...

[BatFlip]

3 hours ago, Orgfiller said:

SSS alert re: defense, so take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt and feel free to respond with the very valid "this is all just noise" comment, but Vlad thus far is not grading out as one of the worst defenders in the league.

Potential wishful thinking explanation: could playing alongside elite 2B defenders like Gimenez and now Ernie for the season be masking his poor range? He was playing with some absolute butchers last season in the likes of Spencer Hortwitz, Davis Schneider, etc. meaning guys with already limited range who could barely play a position. So now that Gimenez and Ernie are covering for his poor range attempts to his right, he can cheat to getting balls near the 1B bag instead.

Did Ross Atkins cook with the Gimenez acquisition by indirectly adding 0.5 wins to Vlad's season over season WAR? Many people are asking this question.

This is an incredibly timely post.  Just  this morning, while sippin my coffee, I was checking out Vlad's WAR and defensive metrics for the season.

You may be on to something, and the quantum may even be more than 0.5 wins.... Atkins playing 4D (defense, defense, defense... and defense) chess.

 

 

[Masterbather]

2 hours ago, BatFlip said:

This is an incredibly timely post.  Just  this morning, while sippin my coffee, I was checking out Vlad's WAR and defensive metrics for the season.

You may be on to something, and the quantum may even be more than 0.5 wins.... Atkins playing 4D (defense, defense, defense... and defense) chess.

 

 

I remain unconvinced that taking on that contract was worth it. We have the poor man's version of him with Clement. Obviously Gimenez has more upside but I'm not sure he'll ever get there again offensively. I'm just not sure there will end up being enough of a gap between them going forward to make it worthwhile.

[BB17]

8 hours ago, Orgfiller said:

SSS alert re: defense, so take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt and feel free to respond with the very valid "this is all just noise" comment, but Vlad thus far is not grading out as one of the worst defenders in the league.

Potential wishful thinking explanation: could playing alongside elite 2B defenders like Gimenez and now Ernie for the season be masking his poor range? He was playing with some absolute butchers last season in the likes of Spencer Hortwitz, Davis Schneider, etc. meaning guys with already limited range who could barely play a position. So now that Gimenez and Ernie are covering for his poor range attempts to his right, he can cheat to getting balls near the 1B bag instead.

Did Ross Atkins cook with the Gimenez acquisition by indirectly adding 0.5 wins to Vlad's season over season WAR? Many people are asking this question.

Vlad could also just be in better shape coming into a contract year/worked on agility coming into the year. He does seem to be moving pretty well over at 1st. In the first month it seemed like he made 3/4 little league mistakes with bad drops but lately there hasn’t been anything bad.

[BatFlip]

12 hours ago, Masterbather said:

I remain unconvinced that taking on that contract was worth it. We have the poor man's version of him with Clement. Obviously Gimenez has more upside but I'm not sure he'll ever get there again offensively. I'm just not sure there will end up being enough of a gap between them going forward to make it worthwhile.

I agree, and I'm not sure if taking on that contract was worth it either, but it's way too early to write off Gimenez after 140 plate appearances.  Just a couple weeks ago several people were writing off the Kirky contract.

It's quite likely Gimenez is our starting SS next year and Clement has a clear path to prove he's a starting 2B.  I still think there's a good probability Gimenez ends up being a ~3 WAR shortstop.

[Terminator]

Gimenez should be pretty good. His xStats and projections are fine so his performance is probably just bad luck in a SSS. He was basically playing at a 4 WAR pace before he got injured.

[Terminator]

The Jose Urethra era is over folks

[glory]

1 hour ago, BatFlip said:

I agree, and I'm not sure if taking on that contract was worth it either, but it's way too early to write off Gimenez after 140 plate appearances.  Just a couple weeks ago several people were writing off the Kirky contract.

It's quite likely Gimenez is our starting SS next year and Clement has a clear path to prove he's a starting 2B.  I still think there's a good probability Gimenez ends up being a ~3 WAR shortstop.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Clement is the SS next season. Nimmala is looking like a top 50 prospect and don’t know if you want to move Gimenez to short and then potentially move him back to 2B a year or two later when he’s already elite at 2B and hasn’t played SS in years. Of course it’s too early to assume Arjun pans out as well. Hopefully Jimenez ends up becoming something because I like Clement better as a utility IF.

[Terminator]

23 minutes ago, glory said:

Wouldn’t surprise me if Clement is the SS next season. Nimmala is looking like a top 50 prospect and don’t know if you want to move Gimenez to short and then potentially move him back to 2B a year or two later when he’s already elite at 2B and hasn’t played SS in years. Of course it’s too early to assume Arjun pans out as well. Hopefully Jimenez ends up becoming something because I like Clement better as a utility IF.

Damn! I haven't even thought of Clement as a full-time starter before but perhaps it's time to consider it.

• Currently leads the team in WAR
• Updated Steamer600 is 2.4 WAR. That's solid as is but Steamer undersells his defense by projecting it to be near average.
• Zips is lower on his bat but seems to capture his defense more accurately and pegs him as roughly a 3 WAR player moving forward.

As for who would play 2B and who would play SS between he and Gimenez it probably wouldn't matter a ton. Gimenez seems to have the stronger arm so you might want him there.

[BatFlip]

24 minutes ago, glory said:

Wouldn’t surprise me if Clement is the SS next season. Nimmala is looking like a top 50 prospect and don’t know if you want to move Gimenez to short and then potentially move him back to 2B a year or two later when he’s already elite at 2B and hasn’t played SS in years. Of course it’s too early to assume Arjun pans out as well. Hopefully Jimenez ends up becoming something because I like Clement better as a utility IF.

I honestly think Gimenez could easily handle a short term stint at SS if Nimmala keeps slugging his way up the system.  

Clement is hot now, but he's probably a slightly below average bat with a slick glove.  That perfectly fits the description of a quality utility IF.  He still deserves a look to see if he can be something more given his age/contract status.

 

[Terminator]

The defense up the middle of the field would be insane.

Possibly even historically elite as there is a good chance you would have the best defensive player in the league at the following positions:

• C- Kirk
• 2B- Clement
• SS- Gimenez
• CF- Varsho

[G-Snarls]

I think Barger night be able to stick at 3B

[G-Snarls]

 

 

[John_Havok]

5 hours ago, G-Snarls said:

I think Barger night be able to stick at 3B

Barger and Clement would make one hell of a platoon.

Barger would gets the majority of starts as the strong side and Clement would be the lefty-killing defensive specialist. 

Thing is, they're both good enough to probably start against same side pitching and not be a s*****.

[Masterbather]

 

9 hours ago, John_Havok said:

Barger and Clement would make one hell of a platoon.

Barger would gets the majority of starts as the strong side and Clement would be the lefty-killing defensive specialist. 

Thing is, they're both good enough to probably start against same side pitching and not be a s*****.

If both Barger and Clement are hitting well it becomes a bit of a problem fitting both in as regulars when the team is fully healthy because it pushes Barger to the outfield and we have a lot of quality outfielders when healthy. That's a great problem to have though and I hope everyone is playing well enough where it becomes a problem.

[Masterbather]

18 hours ago, Terminator said:

The defense up the middle of the field would be insane.

Possibly even historically elite as there is a good chance you would have the best defensive player in the league at the following positions:

• C- Kirk
• 2B- Clement
• SS- Gimenez
• CF- Varsho

That's probably a little too defense heavy, if we lose Bo, we have to replace him with some thump.

When healthy this year's team is already pretty ridiculous defensively: Varsho, Gimenez, Kirk, Clement, Straw, Barger,  Heineman even Roden.

I can't think of many games this year where we beat ourselves with bad defense, it just doesn't really happen.

[jaysblue]

21 hours ago, Terminator said:

The defense up the middle of the field would be insane.

Possibly even historically elite as there is a good chance you would have the best defensive player in the league at the following positions:

• C- Kirk
• 2B- Clement
• SS- Gimenez
• CF- Varsho

Yeah it's looking like the Jays might be fine with letting Bo walk at the end of the season and use that money elsewhere on the roster. Clement has held his own this season thus fare and would be fine with a Barger/Clement platoon at 3B or would consider having Clement as the starting 2B.

Still prefer him as a super utility guy where I think he's best suited. Would need to add way more thump to the lineup however if you're going with Clement as a starter at second. 

[Jays24]

"Swanson is being recalled after putting up an ERA of 9.00 in 4 appearances."

Isn't this a repeat of last year where the Jays called him up too fast and  he shat the bed?

[Spanky__99]

21 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

"Swanson is being recalled after putting up an ERA of 9.00 in 4 appearances."

Isn't this a repeat of last year where the Jays called him up too fast and  he shat the bed?

[Spanky__99]

Better news than I was expecting.

[Spanky__99]

 

[Spanky__99]

 

[max silver]

32 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

"Swanson is being recalled after putting up an ERA of 9.00 in 4 appearances."

Isn't this a repeat of last year where the Jays called him up too fast and  he shat the bed?

Swanson was pitching much better in recent outings as he threw 5 scoreless appearances. I recall looking at the Statcast box score for his second rough outing after coming back, and he was 100% BABIP'd as a bunch of soft contact fell in for hits. 

[Jays24]

1 hour ago, Spanky__99 said:

 

Do the Jays move Barger to the OF to accommodate both Clement and Gimenez in the lineup?  Would suck to mess with Barger since he is looking VERY comfortable at 3B and with the bat.  

[Laika]

Addison Barger is the Franchise now 

He is actually going to save the organization 

[Terminator]

All hail Addison Barger, the king of the Buffalo Boys

[Terminator]

4 hours ago, Jays24 said:

Do the Jays move Barger to the OF to accommodate both Clement and Gimenez in the lineup?  Would suck to mess with Barger since he is looking VERY comfortable at 3B and with the bat.  

It will be interesting to see what they do.

Since Barger can play either OF or 3B, you can leave him in the lineup at one of the two spots.

And then it kind of comes down to some sort of Roden/Clase platoon in LF vs. Clement being in at 3B.

Right now it's tough to take that platoon over Clement.