General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2025)

[jaysblue]

Spencer Turnbull would be a nice pickup. Shocked nobody signed him in the offseason for a couple million as a No. 5 starter/swingman. 

Stripling signed a minor league deal with the Royals. Not sure if he opted out or not. 

Rich Hill could be another option but meh. 

Trade market should evolve end of June/beginning of July. 

 

[glory]

[connorp2]

Whatever WAR Gimenez can give you, there’s a guy in the minors that can do the same. He’ll never make the majors though if he projects to hit like Gimenez. Gimenez is negative value. Facts. 

[connorp2]

On a positive note, I like the Turnbull signing. I loved the Hoffman signing (proven by me always seeking him in fantasy prior to FA). I’m still a Vlad guy, Give me Vlad and his floor all day, over more money for Santander, Kirk, and Gimenez. They should’ve fired the GM. Gimenez was completely unnecessary. Varsho was supposed to be a finishing piece. Now they let the guy triple down on his s***** vision that defense wins titles 

[BB17]

6 hours ago, connorp2 said:

On a positive note, I like the Turnbull signing. I loved the Hoffman signing (proven by me always seeking him in fantasy prior to FA). I’m still a Vlad guy, Give me Vlad and his floor all day, over more money for Santander, Kirk, and Gimenez. They should’ve fired the GM. Gimenez was completely unnecessary. Varsho was supposed to be a finishing piece. Now they let the guy triple down on his s***** vision that defense wins titles 

The sunk cost on Vladdy's deal alone could be more than the total of the Giminez, Kirk and Santander contracts combined lol.

His xWOBA is like top 20 and he's getting paid as the 2nd best player in the sport lol.

[Terminator]

I wonder what the plan is for the pitching staff with the Turnbull and Urena signings. Do both need to be added to the 40 man right away?

Urena is ready to go so I would expect him to be available for the Angels game on Tuesday as it's a bullpen game.

Turnbull will need some time in the minors after not having a spring training. My guess is he's not ready until the beginning of June. Does he need to be added to the 40-man right away?

 

 

 

[jaysblue]

52 minutes ago, Terminator said:

I wonder what the plan is for the pitching staff with the Turnbull and Urena signings. Do both need to be added to the 40 man right away?

Urena is ready to go so I would expect him to be available for the Angels game on Tuesday as it's a bullpen game.

Turnbull will need some time in the minors after not having a spring training. My guess is he's not ready until the beginning of June. Does he need to be added to the 40-man right away?

 

 

 

You would hope Turnbull has been working out and throwing on the side (simulated games etc). Hopefully he just needs 2 or 3 starts in the minors. Even if his first or second MLB start he's on some kind of pitch count like 60-70 pitches that's fine. 

[Terminator]

9 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

You would hope Turnbull has been working out and throwing on the side (simulated games etc). Hopefully he just needs 2 or 3 starts in the minors. Even if his first or second MLB start he's on some kind of pitch count like 60-70 pitches that's fine. 

Yeah the sooner the better. Not only do we have an open 5th spot but Francis looks like a gas can.

Turnbull is a pretty fragile guy though. Hopefully he can get up to speed quickly but I wonder if they'll be careful with him.

[mphenhef]

On 5/4/2025 at 8:14 AM, connorp2 said:

Whatever WAR Gimenez can give you, there’s a guy in the minors that can do the same. He’ll never make the majors though if he projects to hit like Gimenez. Gimenez is negative value. Facts. 

You mean the guy who already has 0.6 bWAR (tied with our half a billion dollar man and only behind Heineman and Springer)?

[connorp2]

1 hour ago, mphenhef said:

You mean the guy who already has 0.6 bWAR (tied with our half a billion dollar man and only behind Heineman and Springer)?

As I said, you could find any random minor leaguer, all glove, to probably give you better for league minimum. Gimenez hitting for $20m. Vlad underlying stats all solid. 123 wRC+ on a team starving for hitting. Making $28m 

[Laika]

The reality is that all of the elite defenders who get stuck in the minors would make Andres Gimenez look like Robinson Cano with the stick. Anybody with true gold glove caliber defense and any kind of remotely competitive hitting ability is probably in the major leagues already. 

[BB17]

1 hour ago, connorp2 said:

As I said, you could find any random minor leaguer, all glove, to probably give you better for league minimum. Gimenez hitting for $20m. Vlad underlying stats all solid. 123 wRC+ on a team starving for hitting. Making $28m 

You cite Vladdys underlying stats but negate Giminez .320 xwOBA which would be the 2nd best of his career. If he has that over the course of the season he’s a 3.5-4 win player which is actually good value for 20M.

Giminez is fine hitting at the bottom of the lineup. The issue is more having the Straws and Rodens being crap.

[glory]

Gimenez is a good player who is grossly overpaid. If he was the same player except a SS, then I think it would be more palatable, so hopefully that's the plan next season (until our savior Nimmala is ready, at least). I was intrigued by the Gleyber Torres pillow contract rumor in the off season. Wish the Jays would have pulled the trigger on that instead. I don't think anyone is touching the Gimenez contract as it gets into the $20M AAV range, even if he ends up being closer to a league average bat. With that said, other than Arjun, the Jays literally have no one that looks like a potentially good big league starter at 2B/SS any time soon, so Gimenez will have value to the team in that regard. 

[BB17]

15 minutes ago, glory said:

Gimenez is a good player who is grossly overpaid. If he was the same player except a SS, then I think it would be more palatable, so hopefully that's the plan next season (until our savior Nimmala is ready, at least). I was intrigued by the Gleyber Torres pillow contract rumor in the off season. Wish the Jays would have pulled the trigger on that instead. I don't think anyone is touching the Gimenez contract as it gets into the $20M AAV range, even if he ends up being closer to a league average bat. With that said, other than Arjun, the Jays literally have no one that looks like a potentially good big league starter at 2B/SS any time soon, so Gimenez will have value to the team in that regard. 

Dansby Swanson got 7/177 for being a league average bat/elite defender. Now granted he plays SS and I'd take him over Giminez contract aside but they are closer than you think. Giminez at 4/86 or 5/97 if you include this year while being 26 is pretty reasonable.

People were freaking out thinking Giminez was a superstar after the first week because of 3 HR, well he isn't that but he's also not nearly as bad as his numbers have been the last month. His average exit velo is highest it's been in his career and he's had a ridiculously unsustainable BABIP of .215 (while not having one infield fly ball). There's a pretty good chance his WAR is higher than Bichette's is at the end of the year quite honestly.

There's tons of reasons to complain about this Blue Jays roster but having Giminez and Kirk aren't the problem a lot of people are making it out to be. 

[Brownie19]

4 hours ago, Laika said:

The reality is that all of the elite defenders who get stuck in the minors would make Andres Gimenez look like Robinson Cano with the stick. Anybody with true gold glove caliber defense and any kind of remotely competitive hitting ability is probably in the major leagues already. 

It feels like you shouldn't have to explain this...

[connorp2]

6 hours ago, Laika said:

The reality is that all of the elite defenders who get stuck in the minors would make Andres Gimenez look like Robinson Cano with the stick. Anybody with true gold glove caliber defense and any kind of remotely competitive hitting ability is probably in the major leagues already. 

Let me move the goalposts to the fact that no other team goes near that contract with a 10 foot pole. 

[glory]

2 hours ago, BB17 said:

Dansby Swanson got 7/177 for being a league average bat/elite defender. Now granted he plays SS and I'd take him over Giminez contract aside but they are closer than you think. Giminez at 4/86 or 5/97 if you include this year while being 26 is pretty reasonable.

People were freaking out thinking Giminez was a superstar after the first week because of 3 HR, well he isn't that but he's also not nearly as bad as his numbers have been the last month. His average exit velo is highest it's been in his career and he's had a ridiculously unsustainable BABIP of .215 (while not having one infield fly ball). There's a pretty good chance his WAR is higher than Bichette's is at the end of the year quite honestly.

There's tons of reasons to complain about this Blue Jays roster but having Giminez and Kirk aren't the problem a lot of people are making it out to be. 

Gimenez is a 2B though (for now), and since 2023 has a 83 wRC+ in his last 1385 PA. Nearly $100M for a glove first 2B is not a good investment. If he is a league average-ish hitter and a great defensive SS, then that would make the contract more appealing, so let's hope that's the plan next season and hopefully he can still handle SS defensively. Obviously the bat being around 90-100 wRC+ would help as well.

[BB17]

1 hour ago, glory said:

Gimenez is a 2B though (for now), and since 2023 has a 83 wRC+ in his last 1385 PA. Nearly $100M for a glove first 2B is not a good investment. If he is a league average-ish hitter and a great defensive SS, then that would make the contract more appealing, so let's hope that's the plan next season and hopefully he can still handle SS defensively. Obviously the bat being around 90-100 wRC+ would help as well.

I mean I'm sure he would be a pretty good SS, he came up as a SS and has unbelievable range. If he saves 20 runs defensively at 2nd or at SS does it really matter much? A run saved is a run saved.

His xwOBA is .320 right now and it was .326 in 2022 in his All star year. He overperformed his talent in 2022 but this is hardly the anchor contract you are making it out to be. 

If you want to complain about a glove first noodle bat then direct it to Ernie Clement. He's been unbelievable defensively and is still barely been worth anything because the bat is horrible. Guys like him, Roden, Straw are why the Jays are struggling to score runs. (And the top of the order not hitting)

[G-Snarls]

Not sure if posted anywhere else 

The Royals hit 7 home runs yesterday, passing the Blue Jays who are now dead last in the majors in home runs 

[connorp2]

4 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

It feels like you shouldn't have to explain this...

You’re still lapping up the Upper Classman milk, I see. For years, great defending 2b like Schoop and Wong could “scooped” up on cheap short term contracts. It’s terrible asset management, You don’t pay premiums for those guys. 

[Laika]

Gimenez 14.8 WAR in 602 games 

Schoop 17.4 WAR in 1188 games 

Wong 17.5 WAR in 1189 games 

New board is just too smart to fall for this false equivalency bullcrap anymore. Gimenez almost twice the talent. 

Yes, if you want inferior players you can spend less money.

[glory]

2 hours ago, BB17 said:

I mean I'm sure he would be a pretty good SS, he came up as a SS and has unbelievable range. If he saves 20 runs defensively at 2nd or at SS does it really matter much? A run saved is a run saved.

His xwOBA is .320 right now and it was .326 in 2022 in his All star year. He overperformed his talent in 2022 but this is hardly the anchor contract you are making it out to be. 

If you want to complain about a glove first noodle bat then direct it to Ernie Clement. He's been unbelievable defensively and is still barely been worth anything because the bat is horrible. Guys like him, Roden, Straw are why the Jays are struggling to score runs. (And the top of the order not hitting)

If you think Gimenez is an asset at 4/86.5 (after this season) then we can agree to disagree. I don’t think you’d be able to give that contract away. The only team that would pay big money for defense alone is the one Gimenez is currently on. Again, he’s not a bad player, but ~$20M AAV for a player like him is not a good use of resources, especially for a team in the Jays situation.

[BB17]

14 hours ago, glory said:

If you think Gimenez is an asset at 4/86.5 (after this season) then we can agree to disagree. I don’t think you’d be able to give that contract away. The only team that would pay big money for defense alone is the one Gimenez is currently on. Again, he’s not a bad player, but ~$20M AAV for a player like him is not a good use of resources, especially for a team in the Jays situation.

The team needs above average talent and if you give Giminez away where exactly are you getting talent from? Bad farm system and FA don't want to come here. So for 20M on a short term deal for a player in his prime is a pretty good gamble for a team in Jays situation quite honestly. The Jays have too many holes on roster as is, and you want to give away a player? 

Giminez is a league averageish bat with elite defense and also can steal 30-40 bases which people I think are forgetting. If he performs close to his underlying stats for rest of season he's a 3-4 win player.

[Brownie19]

8 minutes ago, BB17 said:

The team needs above average talent and if you give Giminez away where exactly are you getting talent from? Bad farm system and FA don't want to come here. So for 20M on a short term deal for a player in his prime is a pretty good gamble for a team in Jays situation quite honestly. The Jays have too many holes on roster as is, and you want to give away a player? 

Giminez is a league averageish bat with elite defense and also can steal 30-40 bases which people I think are forgetting. If he performs close to his underlying stats for rest of season he's a 3-4 win player.

I think this is it.  He's a 26 year old player with a high floor and the Jays get him for what should be all of his prime seasons.

The team needed to add talent and players aren't lining up to play here.  It's a calculated risk that you get the best years from Gimenez.  It is an expensive risk - there's no doubt and it's easy to say it's wasted money that ought to have been spent elsewhere - but who else wants our money?  Not many 26 year old players entering their prime - that's for sure.  We could have given money to some aging vets, but we know they can fall off a cliff at any point.

I have no idea if Gimenez will work out for the Jays.  If he's a 100 wRC+ hitter who plays GG defense and brings some MUCH needed speed to the lineup - then I think it's a great move.  If he's a 90 wRC+ hitter, than this probably isn't as rosey.  Regardless, I understand and support the gamble.

[glory]

2 hours ago, BB17 said:

The team needs above average talent and if you give Giminez away where exactly are you getting talent from? Bad farm system and FA don't want to come here. So for 20M on a short term deal for a player in his prime is a pretty good gamble for a team in Jays situation quite honestly. The Jays have too many holes on roster as is, and you want to give away a player? 

Giminez is a league averageish bat with elite defense and also can steal 30-40 bases which people I think are forgetting. If he performs close to his underlying stats for rest of season he's a 3-4 win player.

I'm not saying they should give him away, I'm saying they likely wouldn't get a team to take his contract even if they were giving him away. If he was a ~100 wRC+ SS with great defense, then maybe, or if he reverted back to something close to his 2022 mode then sure, but not now. No team values 2B defense that much (except Shatkins) even if it did come with close to league average offense. I don't even disagree that I think Gimenez might be a league average bat, he's been very unlucky so far. That doesn't mean he's someone whose contract the Jays should have absorbed at nearly $100M, especially since he's had two consecutive seasons with sub 100 wRC+'s. This is a contract you absorb if you think it's buying low on someone who's closer to 2022 form than 2023 (we'll ignore 2024). If he suddenly becomes an above average bat, then obviously the contract looks way better. 

Like I said, the Jays have zero prospects I'd trust to be good MLB'ers at 2B/SS other than Nimmala who is 19 in A+, so ultimately it's likely not that big of a deal. Just play him at SS until Nimmala is ready, slide him back to 2B after that, and hope the defense/base running holds up for 4 more years. But I think many people had to wipe vomit from their mouths when the trade was first announced, and there was a reason for that. It is what it is. 

[Laika]

Gimenez needs to heat up because Spooner Horwitz is debuting any day for Pitt. 

[Spanky99]

46 minutes ago, Laika said:

Gimenez needs to heat up because Spooner Horwitz is debuting any day for Pitt. 

He's on a bit of a heater starting here in May.

[connorp2]

On 5/6/2025 at 12:41 AM, Laika said:

Gimenez 14.8 WAR in 602 games 

Schoop 17.4 WAR in 1188 games 

Wong 17.5 WAR in 1189 games 

New board is just too smart to fall for this false equivalency bullcrap anymore. Gimenez almost twice the talent. 

Yes, if you want inferior players you can spend less money.

Have you enjoyed not having anyone your own size around when you wanted to pick on people? Schoop was still one of the best 2nd gloves in 2019 before hitting FA, he just missed some games. 13 WAR in 780 games. He went into FA as a league average bat in his last year (the more valuable piece in FA), unlike Gimenez’ current downward trajectory,  He got 1/6 bro. 5 years ago. Gimenez by The Bat, which we’ve agreed in the past tends to be he most accurate, has him projected at roughly 17 WAR over 700 games, Mind you, all of the projections have him being better than a league average bat this year, which is questionable, to say the least. Can you say that Player B is on a different level than Player A? It’s certainly a stretch, There’s no market for those guys. Only the Bluejays. Tampa picks them up for a million and Toronto pays them $20m

[mphenhef]

On 4/17/2025 at 10:06 AM, mphenhef said:

Last year especially it felt like all the high leverage games early in the season really taxed the arms and they paid for it later in the season.

It’s happened again.  When 90% of your innings are high leverage bad things happen to your pitching staff.

[Spanky99]

There must be something wrong with Robertson, injury, too much money, etc... cause I know the Jays and many other teams alike could use him.