Does anyone actually trust Ross Atkins and Shapiro to be at the helm for a rebuild?

[5ToolPhenom]

With the trade deadline looming, I don't want these guys anywhere near another rebuild.

 

With their massive payroll and the emptying of the farm system, they put together 2 wild-card teams that got swept each time in the playoffs. I'm sorry but that doesn't cut it.

 

By the looks of it, these guys are going to be at the helm for a major sell-off before the trade deadline and to me that's unacceptable. It boggles my mind that the team didn't have a replacement ready to come in and start anew.

[Jonn]

Atkins no? Shapiro yes? He's the president of the team. His role is much more than the on field product. He deserves another GM or 2.

[5ToolPhenom]

I've heard from many credible sources that Atkins is basically an assistant GM and that it's still Shapiro behind player acquisition.

[Jays24]

It's ridiculous to believe that Shapiro doesn't have a major say on all big player moves and how the team structure is from top to bottom. He wasn't hired for his construction expertise.

 

The on field product is by far his most important job regardless if he has Atkins underneath him or not. This structure is the same for practically every organization. I doubt people really think that Shanahan, Masai and so forth don't control majority of the moves made by the organization.

[Masterbather]

Girl-bye!

[BaseballIsLife]

Hard not to feel a little duped by this regime. Thought we were getting player development experts but that’s far from the case. Toronto is so far behind their competitors with respect to finding and developing cheap talent. Time to move on. I haven’t paid for tickets since roughly 2009 and don’t plan on it anytime soon. You wouldn’t eat at a restaurant that made lousy food would you. Lots of pain awaits.

[mikepelfrey]

Larry Dolan was desperate to get rid of Shapiro. He suckered Bluejay ownership into taking him and he brought in his right hand man Atkins.. Atkins really isn’t the problem. The problem is Shapiro who knows nothing about talent acquisitions. He is the reason that Anthopoulos left.

 

I know this for a fact, Cleveland fans were telling me this before Shapiro left. They did not want to lose Chris Antonetti, but he was leaving if Shapiro stayed so Larry Dolan talked to the Blue Jays and convinced them to take Shapiro so the problem is not Atkins the problem is Shapiro And he ain’t going anywhere because he’s got the Blue Jays ownership kissing his ass. The Blue Jays won’t get any better till they get rid of Shapiro. He’s the problem it’s known he wants to be the next commissioner but I can’t see major-league baseball being that stupid.

 

Do some research on the Indians. This is all common knowledge to their fan base. Shapiro had nothing to do with building the late 80’s and early 90’s Indians they were built by John Hart. Indians fans wanted Shapiro run out on a rail. They absolutely hated him for the same reasons that the Blue Jays fans are learning now he does nothing to really build the team and the Blue Jays will never get better as long as Shapiro is in charge. That’s just the facts.

 

Talk to Indians fans. Get the scoop from them once you talk to long-term Indians fans you’ll see who the real problem is Larry Dolan suckered Blue Jays ownership. He talked them into taking his problem, Gillick realized this and so did Anthopoulos So Gillick retired, and Alex left as soon as he could.

 

I get it some of you don’t want to believe this. But Indians fans had no reason to lie. They were just happy to be rid of Shapiro

Edited July 14, 2024 by mikepelfrey

[jaysblue]

What do posters think about the CC Sabathia trade in 2008? Shapiro was running things in Cleveland and orchestrated the deal. Only Michael Brantley amounted to anything and he was the last piece in the deal (PTBNL I believe).

 

The Cliff Lee deal in 2009 as well. Carlos Carrasco turned out some real good seasons with them. The rest in that package were garbage.

[Laika]

What do posters think about the CC Sabathia trade in 2008? Shapiro was running things in Cleveland and orchestrated the deal. Only Michael Brantley amounted to anything and he was the last piece in the deal (PTBNL I believe).

 

The Cliff Lee deal in 2009 as well. Carlos Carrasco turned out some real good seasons with them. The rest in that package were garbage.

 

Seems good

 

Brantley for like 12 starts from Sabathia is fantastic

Carrasco for Lee was good

 

Mission accomplished

[Pendleton]

There are specific instances that would make this less than a universal truth, but generally speaking I don't think anyone in sports should be around to fire their underling twice and bring in a third. You get one mulligan to scapegoat someone you hired and then it has to fall on you.

 

The team needs yet another change in the manager position and it just doesn't seem right to let Atkins make his third such move. He needs to go as well. Shapiro needs to find a quality GM, let them make their quality manager hire, and they need to get this thing retooled and on track rather quickly before Shapiro's seat becomes burning hot as well

[G-Snarls]

I've heard from many credible sources that Atkins is basically an assistant GM and that it's still Shapiro behind player acquisition.

 

Is that's true they're really in trouble

[gruber92]

Shapiro's desire has always been in roster construction. He wants to play GM but would rather get paid as a president.

[mikepelfrey]

What do posters think about the CC Sabathia trade in 2008? Shapiro was running things in Cleveland and orchestrated the deal. Only Michael Brantley amounted to anything and he was the last piece in the deal (PTBNL I believe).

 

The Cliff Lee deal in 2009 as well. Carlos Carrasco turned out some real good seasons with them. The rest in that package were garbage.

absolutely, both Lee and Sabathia we certified Aces, top of the rotation horses. Brantley and Carrasco were fine major leaguers but nothing to write home about. Compare that to what the Jays received for Roy Halladay.

 

If you look at Shapiro and his entire body of work it’s like a string of Daulton Varsho like returns

[max silver]

absolutely, both Lee and Sabathia we certified Aces, top of the rotation horses. Brantley and Carrasco were fine major leaguers but nothing to write home about. Compare that to what the Jays received for Roy Halladay.

 

If you look at Shapiro and his entire body of work it’s like a string of Daulton Varsho like returns

 

I recall the Halladay trade returned the Blue Jays a giant pile of s***.

[metafour]

absolutely, both Lee and Sabathia we certified Aces, top of the rotation horses. Brantley and Carrasco were fine major leaguers but nothing to write home about. Compare that to what the Jays received for Roy Halladay.

 

If you look at Shapiro and his entire body of work it’s like a string of Daulton Varsho like returns

 

This post is approaching single digit IQ.

 

I'm pretty sure that Carrasco had something like three 5 fWAR seasons with Cleveland. Brantley had a 6+ fWAR season.

 

Nothing to write home about indeed lol.

[metafour]

Just checked LMAO: from 2014 to 2018 Carlos Carrasco had the 7th highest fWAR among starting pitchers in the entire league @ 21.0 fWAR. 1.4 fWAR below Verlander and 0.4 fWAR better than than David Price.

[max silver]

Just checked LMAO: from 2014 to 2018 Carlos Carrasco had the 7th highest fWAR among starting pitchers in the entire league @ 21.0 fWAR. 1.4 fWAR below Verlander and 0.4 fWAR better than than David Price.

 

But the Blue Jays Halladay return of Michael Taylor, Travis D'Arnaud and Kyle Drabek was obviously way better, get with the program man.

[Rimar]

Both and Schneider need to be fired. Jays need to rebuild from scratch and they should inspire themselves from what Rays and Orioles do.

[glory]

Shapiro’s run as GM of the Indians was ass. Drafting wasn’t good. They made the playoffs once in 9 years. Average attendance dropped nearly 2 million from the time he started as GM (3.2m) until his final season in that role (1.4m). He got bumped to team president after that, and the team didn’t really take off until after he left the org entirely. Looking back, Jays fans (myself included) were a little too optimistic about this guy based on his track record. He has done some good things here but almost all of the good has been unrelated to baseball decisions.

 

I think Shapiro is the guy to get rid of here. Rogers could definitely hire someone worse, so there’s risk there, but I don’t think things will truly change until he’s gone.

[Brownie19]

Hard not to feel a little duped by this regime. Thought we were getting player development experts but that’s far from the case. Toronto is so far behind their competitors with respect to finding and developing cheap talent. Time to move on. I haven’t paid for tickets since roughly 2009 and don’t plan on it anytime soon. You wouldn’t eat at a restaurant that made lousy food would you. Lots of pain awaits.

 

If you didn't buy tickets in 2015 or 2016, you probably never will. You sound miserable.

[Brownie19]

Is that's true they're really in trouble

 

I'm pretty sure it's not, so you can breath easy.

[Brownie19]

Seems good

 

Brantley for like 12 starts from Sabathia is fantastic

Carrasco for Lee was good

 

Mission accomplished

 

I'm not sure how anyone could see this any differently.

[max silver]

I'm pretty sure it's not, so you can breath easy.

 

Yeah that really doesn't make any sense. I don't know how there could possibly be enough hours in the day for Shapiro to spearhead all of the player acquisition efforts on top of President and CEO duties.

[MikeM3]

Shapiro’s run as GM of the Indians was ass. Drafting wasn’t good. They made the playoffs once in 9 years. Average attendance dropped nearly 2 million from the time he started as GM (3.2m) until his final season in that role (1.4m). He got bumped to team president after that, and the team didn’t really take off until after he left the org entirely. Looking back, Jays fans (myself included) were a little too optimistic about this guy based on his track record. He has done some good things here but almost all of the good has been unrelated to baseball decisions.

 

I think Shapiro is the guy to get rid of here. Rogers could definitely hire someone worse, so there’s risk there, but I don’t think things will truly change until he’s gone.

 

I think people were ecstatic to get him because ownership was trying to get the literal worst executives in the game just prior.

[L54]

I think people were ecstatic to get him because ownership was trying to get the literal worst executives in the game just prior.

 

Kenny Williams was almost a Blue Jay

[Krylian]

If Rogers thinks this management group is the answer going forward.....boy....I don't know what to say. i honestly can't see how Atkins and Schneider survive this season. I can rationalize Shapiro being allowed to continue, but even that's a bit of a stretch. He let AA go, brought in Atkins...Atkins has had 8 seasons with 0 post season wins. There's been some regular season success...although one could argue they never quite reached the heights they were destined to. After 8 seasons, what is the excuse for this team having the payroll it does, with this roster performance, and a minor league system in complete shambles.

[Krylian]

Kenny Williams was almost a Blue Jay

 

Kenny Williams was a Blue Jay...in '90 & '91.

[John Balkabella]

No. Shapiro has made a career of bullshitting.

 

Smiling faces.

 

Fire the lot, and start again.

 

Total rebuild.

 

Ed Rogers doesn’t have the guts, though.

 

I hate corporate ownership.

[BaseballIsLife]

If you didn't buy tickets in 2015 or 2016, you probably never will. You sound miserable.

 

Okay

[L54]

Kenny Williams was a Blue Jay...in '90 & '91.

 

Before my fandom so I had no idea

 

He is a terrible executive though