2024 Trade Deadline

[Omar]

If the Jays are relying on another season of bounce back from anyone other than Bichette then we've officially entered delusionville. 2024 was supposed to be the bounce back season. There has to be a paradigm shift now going forward. I assume that with a change in the GM that will take place; maybe it has already unofficially.

 

The litmus test will be this year's trade deadline. If they move anyone other than players with expiring contracts then it signals that they might go full rebuild. Otherwise it will be retool city not full rebuild as Jolting Joe suggested. I doubt this team ever goes "full rebuild". It's not part of the corporate plan.

[Brownie19]

If the Jays are relying on another season of bounce back from anyone other than Bichette then we've officially entered delusionville. 2024 was supposed to be the bounce back season. There has to be a paradigm shift now going forward. I assume that with a change in the GM that will take place; maybe it has already unofficially.

 

The litmus test will be this year's trade deadline. If they move anyone other than players with expiring contracts then it signals that they might go full rebuild. Otherwise it will be retool city not full rebuild as Jolting Joe suggested. I doubt this team ever goes "full rebuild". It's not part of the corporate plan.

 

I know what you're saying, but I don't think it's overly unrealistic to see a bounce back season from Gausman and/or Berrios. You can't just exclude that as a realistic probability simply because we didn't get bounce back years from Springer, Kirk (or Varsho?) this year. I also think that people's version of a "full rebuild" may be different. I don't think selling off expiring contracts (or guys with only 1 1/2 years remaining) like Vlad, Bo, Gausman, Bassitt, Varsho, Green, Springer, etc. is unrealistic or a sign of a "total rebuild" - it's just a necessary move to retool/restock if the team isn't contending at the deadline in 2025. You can't afford to let those guys walk for nothing. Whether it's a "full rebuild" or not may depend on what the return for those player is. Are we getting AAA/ML ready players, or are we getting guys in the low minors who are more risk/reward moves?

[Joltin Joe]

I actually think there's a decent probability that things play out the way Joltin Joe has suggested. They trade all the rentals at this deadline because they do want to contend next year. As my good friend jaysblue suggested, if you squint really hard, you could see the Jays add offense (corner OFer, DH, maybe 3rd base), another SPer and some bullpen help via free agency. That coupled with bounce back years from Bo, Gausman, Berrios and hopefully some breakout years from the youngsters and there's a real possibility we can make the playoffs next year.

 

But - there's also a real possibility that it blows up in their face again and they are big time sellers before the next deadline. Vlad, Bo, Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, Springer, Varsho, Green, etc. could all be moved (yes, it's unlikely they would ALL go, but they'd all be potentially on the table).

 

That cookie of potentially contending next year, combined with ownership pressure to keep the dome full to pay for the reno's may ultimately extend our rebuild time as player value will decrease as they inch closer to free agency. That said, in some cases (like Bo and Gausman), their values may not decrease as much if they can rebound next year (v. their current value). If they do pull it together and make the playoffs again in 2025 - perhaps it's all worth it.

 

Of course it will. This team has a lot of holes to fill in off season. Jays need 3b, DH, LF, a starting pitcher, redo the bull pen. Bo to bounce back. There is nothing in the farm system. Jays have to go free agency. It's too much. They not going to contend in '25.

 

The only key player they may retain long term, next 5 years plus, is Vlad. I see 50-50 chance on him. Bo I can't see being here past next July. Also Bassitt and Gausman I see gone by then. Berrios it is possible he does stay though. That makes two pieces. But still, not enough to stop some type of rebuild. If Jays going to be bad next 3 years. Better off they real bad.

[Carlos Danger]

When a player (Bo), tells his buddies he would prefer to be traded, you need to make it happen. If not, you are just spinning your wheels with the player and you have the potential for club house issues.

[Rusty_Savage]

When a player (Bo) tells his buddies he would prefer to be traded, you need to make it happen. If not, you are just spinning your wheels with the player and you have the potential for club house issues.

Trading him right now would be dumb. He's had a terrible season and he's hurt. They wouldn't get close to fair market value for him.

 

An off season trade seems far fetched now, too.

 

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[Carlos Danger]

Trading him right now would be dumb. He's had a terrible season and he's hurt. They wouldn't get close to fair market value for him.

 

An off season trade seems far fetched now, too.

 

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The value comes from control. Two playoff runs vs 3 months.

 

The team trading for him would take a look at medicals and obviously have faith he will rebound.

 

Even with better performance next year, the value is mitigated by term of control. Also, what if he does suck next year, then you will get nada.

[Brownie19]

The value comes from control. Two playoff runs vs 3 months.

 

The team trading for him would take a look at medicals and obviously have faith he will rebound.

 

Even with better performance next year, the value is mitigated by term of control. Also, what if he does suck next year, then you will get nada.

 

I fully expect the FO is weighing all those factors internally. Don't read into the s*** they tell the media. You also mis-quoted what Bo said.

[Carlos Danger]

I fully expect the FO is weighing all those factors internally. Don't read into the s*** they tell the media. You also mis-quoted what Bo said.

 

Ok, Bo told his friends he would welcome a trade. I, and I think most would interpret that as preffering a trade.

[Jays24]

Trading him right now would be dumb. He's had a terrible season and he's hurt. They wouldn't get close to fair market value for him.

 

An off season trade seems far fetched now, too.

 

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Seems like he will go the way Josh Donaldson did. Super high value to almost nothing because you couldn't make up your damn mind whether you can keep him or not.

 

By now, they should all have a great idea of what Bo wanted and what they wanted to pay. The gap has seemed too big the entire time and we will probably lose him for cents on the dollar.

[Terminator]

You can't really blame the team for this Bo situation. At least they didn't extend him.

 

Yeah, they should have traded him prior to this season but (1) the team looked to be competitive so not sure why you would trade your 4 WAR SS and (2) had no reason to believe he'd tank like this.

[Laika]

Trading him right now would be dumb. He's had a terrible season and he's hurt. They wouldn't get close to fair market value for him.

 

An off season trade seems far fetched now, too.

 

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I don't think an offseason trade is that weird.

It's a soft tissue injury so teams won't care that much about it in 2025.

 

Some teams will still like him as a player since he will project well enough.

 

Toronto, even if trying to compete in 2025, will have a handful of holes to fill. They may be able to piece together SS between Jimenez, IKF, and Clement.

 

Bo is becoming a negative clubhouse presence. Sort of abandoning the team at the bottom, in various ways (performance, health, attitude).

[Brownie19]

Ok, Bo told his friends he would welcome a trade. I, and I think most would interpret that as preffering a trade.

 

You can choose to interpret whatever you want. But don't assume you're right about it. He very well could just have the view point that baseball is a business and trades are part of the sport. If he were traded, he'd accept and welcome that with a good attitude. That certainly sounds like something a professional like Bo would say. For you to interpret something - and then draw a conclusion that he needs to be traded now as it could lead to clubhouse issues is just really odd. Next, you'll probably blame the FO if they don't trade Bo before the deadline. All that will snowball out of your decision to interpret a quote.

 

Of course there's a potential your interpretation is correct or that at some point, Bo will become unhappy in Toronto and/or become an issue in the clubhouse. If that happens, I'm sure you'll toot your own horn about how smart you are - even if these course of events could be completely unrelated.

[L54]

You can choose to interpret whatever you want. But don't assume you're right about it. He very well could just have the view point that baseball is a business and trades are part of the sport. If he were traded, he'd accept and welcome that with a good attitude. That certainly sounds like something a professional like Bo would say. For you to interpret something - and then draw a conclusion that he needs to be traded now as it could lead to clubhouse issues is just really odd. Next, you'll probably blame the FO if they don't trade Bo before the deadline. All that will snowball out of your decision to interpret a quote.

 

Of course there's a potential your interpretation is correct or that at some point, Bo will become unhappy in Toronto and/or become an issue in the clubhouse. If that happens, I'm sure you'll toot your own horn about how smart you are - even if these course of events could be completely unrelated.

 

You don’t think Bo is unhappy in Toronto already?

[Jimcanuck]

Bo never wanted to be in Toronto to begin with. The closer he gets to FA, the more apparent this becomes.

[L54]

Bo has been checked out for months already. He can’t wait to leave Toronto

[Brownie19]

You don’t think Bo is unhappy in Toronto already?

 

I have no idea. I suspect he's very unhappy with his performance this year and with the teams performance overall. Does he look unhappy in the dugout this year? Yes, I think he does, but it's logical to suggest he may just be extreme frustration with his own play. He may be feeling like he's let his team down bigtime (which he has).

 

Do I think he's given up and is just mailing it in, trying to force a trade out of Toronto (Vince Carter style)? I'm not sure I've seen any evidence of that. That's not really something you see in baseball very often. I haven't heard any reports that Bo isn't putting in all the hard work he typically does, or that he's out partying on the Town every night because he doesn't give a f***.

 

Could he be frustrated with the direction of the team, which has seemingly let a good opportunity slip away (90 win team for 3-4 years)? That seems reasonable to me. But wouldn't half the team feel that way? You think Vlad, Springer, Gausman, Jansen, Berrios, etc. are super happy with the current direction of the team? Doubtful. Maybe some players hide it or suppress those feelings better. If that were the reasoning for wanting "out" then I think there would be several players who were unhappy and want out. And keep in mind that by principle, I don't put a lot of weight into what players say to the media.

[max silver]

Bo never wanted to be in Toronto to begin with. The closer he gets to FA, the more apparent this becomes.

 

There are reports floating around the internet that Bo actually preferred to be drafted by the Blue Jays and told other teams he wouldn't sign with them. This seems to indicate he was perfectly happy to be a Toronto Blue Jay. This doesn't discount the possibility that he would prefer to be moved at this juncture for sure but it's a giant stretch to suggest he never wanted to be in Toronto.

[Brownie19]

Bo never wanted to be in Toronto to begin with. The closer he gets to FA, the more apparent this becomes.

 

Jim - you must be getting oldtimers because this is 100% false. Bo specifically said he wanted to be drafted by the Jays because of their openness to let him continue with his unique swing. "The Toronto Blue Jays selected Bichette in the second round, with the 66th overall selection, of the 2016 Major League Baseball draft.[4] He said afterward that he turned down "about four offers" during the draft in order to go to Toronto."

[max silver]

I actually think there's a decent probability that things play out the way Joltin Joe has suggested. They trade all the rentals at this deadline because they do want to contend next year. As my good friend jaysblue suggested, if you squint really hard, you could see the Jays add offense (corner OFer, DH, maybe 3rd base), another SPer and some bullpen help via free agency. That coupled with bounce back years from Bo, Gausman, Berrios and hopefully some breakout years from the youngsters and there's a real possibility we can make the playoffs next year.

 

But - there's also a real possibility that it blows up in their face again and they are big time sellers before the next deadline. Vlad, Bo, Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, Springer, Varsho, Green, etc. could all be moved (yes, it's unlikely they would ALL go, but they'd all be potentially on the table).

 

That cookie of potentially contending next year, combined with ownership pressure to keep the dome full to pay for the reno's may ultimately extend our rebuild time as player value will decrease as they inch closer to free agency. That said, in some cases (like Bo and Gausman), their values may not decrease as much if they can rebound next year (v. their current value). If they do pull it together and make the playoffs again in 2025 - perhaps it's all worth it.

 

Springer very well may in the midst of an offensive breakout, it just took several months into the season for it to start.

[Jimcanuck]

Jim - you must be getting oldtimers because this is 100% false. Bo specifically said he wanted to be drafted by the Jays because of their openness to let him continue with his unique swing. "The Toronto Blue Jays selected Bichette in the second round, with the 66th overall selection, of the 2016 Major League Baseball draft.[4] He said afterward that he turned down "about four offers" during the draft in order to go to Toronto."

 

ok, my bad. what is "oldtimers"

[John_Havok]

Bo never wanted to be in Toronto to begin with. The closer he gets to FA, the more apparent this becomes.

 

not really true since he turned down 4 other teams who wanted to draft him before the Jays took him. Those are his own words. Seems like he wanted to be in Toronto... at least in the start.

[Carlos Danger]

You can choose to interpret whatever you want. But don't assume you're right about it. He very well could just have the view point that baseball is a business and trades are part of the sport. If he were traded, he'd accept and welcome that with a good attitude. That certainly sounds like something a professional like Bo would say. For you to interpret something - and then draw a conclusion that he needs to be traded now as it could lead to clubhouse issues is just really odd. Next, you'll probably blame the FO if they don't trade Bo before the deadline. All that will snowball out of your decision to interpret a quote.

 

Of course there's a potential your interpretation is correct or that at some point, Bo will become unhappy in Toronto and/or become an issue in the clubhouse. If that happens, I'm sure you'll toot your own horn about how smart you are - even if these course of events could be completely unrelated.

 

Bo is a smart and media savvy individual. He grew up with a dad in MLB. You are naive to think Bo said something like that off the cuff.

 

Someone who wants to be traded who is not and still remains on a team is problematic.

 

If you are with company A and you make it publicly known you would welcome a job or interview with company B, what do you think that implies about company A?

 

Start seeing the forest through the trees Dude!

[glory]

I know what you're saying, but I don't think it's overly unrealistic to see a bounce back season from Gausman and/or Berrios. You can't just exclude that as a realistic probability simply because we didn't get bounce back years from Springer, Kirk (or Varsho?) this year. I also think that people's version of a "full rebuild" may be different. I don't think selling off expiring contracts (or guys with only 1 1/2 years remaining) like Vlad, Bo, Gausman, Bassitt, Varsho, Green, Springer, etc. is unrealistic or a sign of a "total rebuild" - it's just a necessary move to retool/restock if the team isn't contending at the deadline in 2025. You can't afford to let those guys walk for nothing. Whether it's a "full rebuild" or not may depend on what the return for those player is. Are we getting AAA/ML ready players, or are we getting guys in the low minors who are more risk/reward moves?

 

I would be surprised if the 2024 trade deadline wasn't a full on attempt to fill as many 2025 holes as possible, even at the expense of upside. If they traded Kikuchi for 2 guys in A ball with high ceilings/low floors, then I'd be legit shocked (though pleased since the Jays badly need some upside in the system). The 2025 trade deadline if they are out of it is a different story, as I can't imagine anyone in the org would be delusional enough to think the 2026 team would be any good if the 2025 team stunk too.

[glory]

not really true since he turned down 4 other teams who wanted to draft him before the Jays took him. Those are his own words. Seems like he wanted to be in Toronto... at least in the start.

 

Yeah seems like he wanted to be drafted by the Jays and thought highly of their player development at the time (which seems laughable in hindsight given what we've seen the last few years). He seems to have lost his admiration for the org since then, though who knows when that started. I think he definitely has one foot out the door right now, but he has every incentive in the world to have a big 2025 to 1) hit free agency at a high, and 2) get the hell out of TO in a trade if they are out of it next July.

[Stangstag]

I would be surprised if the 2024 trade deadline wasn't a full on attempt to fill as many 2025 holes as possible, even at the expense of upside. If they traded Kikuchi for 2 guys in A ball with high ceilings/low floors, then I'd be legit shocked (though pleased since the Jays badly need some upside in the system). The 2025 trade deadline if they are out of it is a different story, as I can't imagine anyone in the org would be delusional enough to think the 2026 team would be any good if the 2025 team stunk too.

 

Right. I would expect our trades to look something more along the lines of Kikuchi for Anthony Kay.

[John_Havok]

Right. I would expect our trades to look something more along the lines of Kikuchi for Anthony Kay.

 

Hard to say, even the Flaherty trade last season only returned two guys that were 15 and 19 in the receiving teams rankings. I don't really see much impact talent coming back from any of the obvious trade candidates tbh.

[glory]

Right. I would expect our trades to look something more along the lines of Kikuchi for Anthony Kay.

 

Or a player with 1-3 years of service time that another team is not valuing or is giving up on (ex. Drury).

[Stangstag]

Hard to say, even the Flaherty trade last season only returned two guys that were 15 and 19 in the receiving teams rankings. I don't really see much impact talent coming back from any of the obvious trade candidates tbh.

 

Flaherty was dogwater last year though, and for a season or two prior.

 

Kikuchi is better than Flaherty when he was traded.

 

Remains to be seen how teams will value a guy like Kikuchi as a lefty with great K numbers that could also be pushed to the bullpen if needed.

[Stangstag]

Or a player with 1-3 years of service time that another team is not valuing or is giving up on (ex. Drury).

 

Kikuchi + RP for Gavin Lux

[The Cats Ass]

How about Lux + James Outman