Positivity Thread

[Laika]

He's basically a league average bat off of the bench who produces a win or so in about 300 PA per season. It would be great if he more resembled the player he was when he first came up I can't say I exactly see any minor league players in the system that have been blocked by Biggio's presence on the roster.

 

The hypotheticals would range from guys like Otto Lopez (who is killing it this year and projects well) to just about every viable waiver claim position player or dude traded for cash in the last few years

 

That's the whole point. Opportunity cost. Is Biggio trash? No. But he doesn't move the needle very much at all and he has no upside because he can't hit the baseball very good and he has no tools. Best case Ontario he just walks to first base enough to worth one WAR or whatever.

[wilko]

I wonder how much it would cost to lock Biggio up long term?

[L54]

I wonder how much it would cost to lock Biggio up long term?

 

3/9

[max silver]

The hypotheticals would range from guys like Otto Lopez (who is killing it this year and projects well) to just about every viable waiver claim position player or dude traded for cash in the last few years

 

That's the whole point. Opportunity cost. Is Biggio trash? No. But he doesn't move the needle very much at all and he has no upside because he can't hit the baseball very good and he has no tools. Best case Ontario he just walks to first base enough to worth one WAR or whatever.

 

Don't pretend that you saw Otto Lopez producing anything like he has so far this season. This is a guy who produced a .656 OPS in a hitter friendly AAA league last season so he fully played his way off of the Blue Jays roster. I can only wonder if he made some significant changes under the hood with how hard he's been hitting the ball. If he keeps this kind of production up he'll end up feeling like one who got away but he didn't do anything to earn himself an extended major league opportunity.

 

I just think Biggio guy receives more hate than is remotely necessary. He's far from exciting but he's a solid bench player who doesn't hurt the team and contributes a win per season or so. Who are the cash pickups and waiver claims that the team has picked up in recent seasons that have outproduced Biggio?

[Laika]

Don't pretend that you saw Otto Lopez producing anything like he has so far this season. This is a guy who produced a .656 OPS in a hitter friendly AAA league last season so he fully played his way off of the Blue Jays roster. I can only wonder if he made some significant changes under the hood with how hard he's been hitting the ball. If he keeps this kind of production up he'll end up feeling like one who got away but he didn't do anything to earn himself an extended major league opportunity.

 

I just think Biggio guy receives more hate than is remotely necessary. He's far from exciting but he's a solid bench player who doesn't hurt the team and contributes a win per season or so. Who are the cash pickups and waiver claims that the team has picked up in recent seasons that have outproduced Biggio?

 

Well, that's exactly the point! Biggio being on the roster and given so much rope has prevented the team from doing this.

 

They overvalue his one skill (the ability to not swing, as weird as that sounds) and his handedness.

 

This FO is evidently capable of profiting off of scrap heap players. Ernie Clement was a minor league signing and he's four times the ball player Cavan Biggio is.

Presently they could just be playing Addison Barger over Biggio. More upside because Addison Barger can actually swing a baseball bat.

[max silver]

Well, that's exactly the point! Biggio being on the roster and given so much rope has prevented the team from doing this.

 

They overvalue his one skill (the ability to not swing, as weird as that sounds) and his handedness.

 

This FO is evidently capable of profiting off of scrap heap players. Ernie Clement was a minor league signing and he's four times the ball player Cavan Biggio is.

Presently they could just be playing Addison Barger over Biggio. More upside because Addison Barger can actually swing a baseball bat.

 

Barger largely looked overmatched in his small sample of major league playing time so it's entirely possible he simply isn't ready for the majors yet. I have a hard time envisioning a -76 wRC+/-0.4 FWAR player being some sort of solution to the team's woes at present. Clement has been a pleasant surprise, but his 41 wRC+ against right handed pitching doesn't make a strong argument that he should find his way into the lineup more frequently against same handed pitching. Biggio has produced a 104 wRC+ against right handed pitching so it's possible replacing him with Clement against RHP would actually be counterproductive.

[Krylian]

It's a positive that the Jays are already 25% through this dreadful season.

[Laika]

Barger largely looked overmatched in his small sample of major league playing time so it's entirely possible he simply isn't ready for the majors yet. I have a hard time envisioning a -76 wRC+/-0.4 FWAR player being some sort of solution to the team's woes at present. Clement has been a pleasant surprise, but his 41 wRC+ against right handed pitching doesn't make a strong argument that he should find his way into the lineup more frequently against same handed pitching. Biggio has produced a 104 wRC+ against right handed pitching so it's possible replacing him with Clement against RHP would actually be counterproductive.

 

You don't get it man

 

Personally I would swap him for Barger immediately but that's not even the point

 

The point is just that Cavan Biggio actually can't hit. Like, he has the physical tools of a mother of three, but without the child bearing hips.

 

104 wRC+ vs RHP is terrible by the way, he isn't even excelling at his one job

 

Some of the projection systems already think Barger is a better hitter

 

Certainly Spencer Horwitz is a better hitter. Interestingly Horwitz is getting some reps at 2B and LF recently. I wonder if they want him to supplant Biggio ASAP!

 

I bet the front office is embarrassed about how Biggio looks on this new statcast bat tracking data. It is really embarrassing. It's like a photo leaking of your front office micropenis, basically. Ross is probably flustered.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Yeah it's been enough years of Biggio being an average bench player getting pretty much full playing time.

 

Would way rather give Barger or Horwitz an extended look.

[max silver]

You don't get it man

 

Personally I would swap him for Barger immediately but that's not even the point

 

The point is just that Cavan Biggio actually can't hit. Like, he has the physical tools of a mother of three, but without the child bearing hips.

 

104 wRC+ vs RHP is terrible by the way, he isn't even excelling at his one job

 

Some of the projection systems already think Barger is a better hitter

 

Certainly Spencer Horwitz is a better hitter. Interestingly Horwitz is getting some reps at 2B and LF recently. I wonder if they want him to supplant Biggio ASAP!

 

I bet the front office is embarrassed about how Biggio looks on this new statcast bat tracking data. It is really embarrassing. It's like a photo leaking of your front office micropenis, basically. Ross is probably flustered.

 

So you are clamoring for Clement and his 43 wRC+ against RHP to get more playing time, but then you say that Biggio's 104 wRC+ is terrible. That makes a world of sense.

 

I'll fully agree that Biggio can't hit at present, but at the same time I don't know if it's particularly reasonable to take a sample of at bats where a player is struggling/slumping and then assume he has no chance of reversing his fortunes at some point. Biggio is a slow starter, and in recent seasons has improved a lot at the plate as the calendar nears the end of May. Last season is a prime example of this, as Biggio was a very solid contributor after he leveled out his swing. He posted a .343 xwOBA/124 wRC+ over the last 4 months of the season. That is the upside he offers when he's locked in at the plate.

 

Biggio's lack of swing speed is semi alarming, but as this is only 5-6 weeks of data without having any kind of way to know his previous baseline it's sort of impossible to know whether this is a sudden decline or indicative of the type of swing speeds he's typically been "blessed" with.

[Laika]

So you are clamoring for Clement and his 43 wRC+ against RHP to get more playing time, but then you say that Biggio's 104 wRC+ is terrible. That makes a world of sense.

 

I'll fully agree that Biggio can't hit at present, but at the same time I don't know if it's particularly reasonable to take a sample of at bats where a player is struggling/slumping and then assume he has no chance of reversing his fortunes at some point. Biggio is a slow starter, and in recent seasons has improved a lot at the plate as the calendar nears the end of May. Last season is a prime example of this, as Biggio was a very solid contributor after he leveled out his swing. He posted a .343 xwOBA/124 wRC+ over the last 4 months of the season. That is the upside he offers when he's locked in at the plate.

 

Biggio's lack of swing speed is semi alarming, but as this is only 5-6 weeks of data without having any kind of way to know his previous baseline it's sort of impossible to know whether this is a sudden decline or indicative of the type of swing speeds he's typically been "blessed" with.

 

Are you being obtuse on purpose or does your brain just have slow think speed? None of the platoon splits so far this year are particularly relevant to the discussion, they are all also close to meaningless in the present sample sizes.

 

Cavan Biggio has been struggling his whole life and he is almost a 30 year old man now.

 

It is time for him to hang them up and let someone who can bench one plate swing the bat.

 

Outside of baseball he could still be characterized as a young man. And he has the muscle mass of a tweenager. So I am sure with his family name and pointy face, he could make a good insurance salesman or something.

[L54]

Max what part of this is hard to follow?

 

Biggio is essentially a zero. He has almost zero upside. He doesn’t hit for power, he doesn’t make a ton of contact, he plays two positions that the Jays really don’t need him at and he’s not a defensive messiah by any stretch

 

The opportunity cost is players that have been let loose because of his firm grip on the 25th man spot, or those who have not been promoted because of it OR those who have rode pine so he can start

 

2B Depth Chart

 

Schneider

IKF

Ernie

Biggio

 

Corner outfield depth chart

 

Springer

Varsho

Schneider

Biggio

 

He could be the starting second baseman for the White Sox. That’s his true talent level at this point

[Laika]

Max what part of this is hard to follow?

 

Biggio is essentially a zero. He has almost zero upside. He doesn’t hit for power, he doesn’t make a ton of contact, he plays two positions that the Jays really don’t need him at and he’s not a defensive messiah by any stretch

 

The opportunity cost is players that have been let loose because of his firm grip on the 25th man spot, or those who have not been promoted because of it OR those who have rode pine so he can start

2B Depth Chart

 

Schneider

IKF

Ernie

Biggio

 

Corner outfield depth chart

 

Springer

Varsho

Schneider

Biggio

 

He could be the starting second baseman for the White Sox. That’s his true talent level at this point

 

OR even - waiver claims or cash trades they could have trialed instead of him. Could have churned through like 5 guys over the last two years in search of a real player. Or signed a free agent who can do five pushups.

[L54]

OR even - waiver claims or cash trades they could have trialed instead of him. Could have churned through like 5 guys over the last two years in search of a real player.

 

True that sort of transaction too

[jaysblue]

Davis Schneider looks exactly like Spencer Strider.

[HomeRunHomer]

I think Davis looks more like Mr. Raditch.

[hanton]

Davis Schneider looks exactly like Spencer Strider.

 

just less athletic

[philly30]

I always expect a win when Berrios pitches

[max silver]

Max what part of this is hard to follow?

 

Biggio is essentially a zero. He has almost zero upside. He doesn’t hit for power, he doesn’t make a ton of contact, he plays two positions that the Jays really don’t need him at and he’s not a defensive messiah by any stretch

 

The opportunity cost is players that have been let loose because of his firm grip on the 25th man spot, or those who have not been promoted because of it OR those who have rode pine so he can start

 

2B Depth Chart

 

Schneider

IKF

Ernie

Biggio

 

Corner outfield depth chart

 

Springer

Varsho

Schneider

Biggio

 

He could be the starting second baseman for the White Sox. That’s his true talent level at this point

 

This is just more overreacting to a slump. This happens every time the guy struggles at the start of the season, and the various detractors are always quick to make immediate declarations that the slumping version of this player represents his offensive upside. Conversely when he goes on an extended run of offensive success it's completely crickets time from the haters with nary a peep to be made about the success. Biggio is struggling at the plate, that's impossible to deny, but at the same time if he turns things around he has potential to once again be a very solid contributor. After his swing change last season he was the team's 4th most productive offensive contributor among regular players for 2/3 of the regular season, outproducing the likes of Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Springer, Merrifield, Chapman and Espinal. He was far from the reason the team struggled offensively as he produced much better quality of contact metrics and actually earned his offensive numbers and playing time by effectively swinging the bat. He produced a 124 wRC+ and 1.4 FWAR in 272 PA. That is a quality major league player as he produced value akin to a 3 win player if averaged out to a full season of plate appearances. He earned himself another look this season through good play.

 

If he doesn't turn things around it's not like it's hard to simply allot more playing time to someone else, and if someone else eventually takes his place so be it. It's entirely possible someone like Barger eventually kicks the door in and takes the corner outfield spot, and the likes of Clement or IKF eventually render him as completely expendable, but that hasn't actually happened yet as it's up in the air what kind of offensive contributor Clement eventually settles in as over time, and IKF doesn't exactly have a track record of exemplary offensive production that makes him a shoe in to continue producing the way he has up until this point.

[connorp]

Spanky hasn’t wet the bed in at least 3 weeks.

[L54]

This is just more overreacting to a slump. This happens every time the guy struggles at the start of the season, and the various detractors are always quick to make immediate declarations that the slumping version of this player represents his offensive upside. Conversely when he goes on an extended run of offensive success it's completely crickets time from the haters with nary a peep to be made about the success. Biggio is struggling at the plate, that's impossible to deny, but at the same time if he turns things around he has potential to once again be a very solid contributor. After his swing change last season he was the team's 4th most productive offensive contributor among regular players for 2/3 of the regular season, outproducing the likes of Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Springer, Merrifield, Chapman and Espinal. He was far from the reason the team struggled offensively as he produced much better quality of contact metrics and actually earned his offensive numbers and playing time by effectively swinging the bat. He produced a 124 wRC+ and 1.4 FWAR in 272 PA. That is a quality major league player as he produced value akin to a 3 win player if averaged out to a full season of plate appearances. He earned himself another look this season through good play.

 

If he doesn't turn things around it's not like it's hard to simply allot more playing time to someone else, and if someone else eventually takes his place so be it. It's entirely possible someone like Barger eventually kicks the door in and takes the corner outfield spot, and the likes of Clement or IKF eventually render him as completely expendable, but that hasn't actually happened yet as it's up in the air what kind of offensive contributor Clement eventually settles in as over time, and IKF doesn't exactly have a track record of exemplary offensive production that makes him a shoe in to continue producing the way he has up until this point.

 

This is the positivity thread after all so kudos to you

[Spanky99]

You don't get it man

 

Personally I would swap him for Barger immediately but that's not even the point

 

The point is just that Cavan Biggio actually can't hit. Like, he has the physical tools of a mother of three, but without the child bearing hips.

 

104 wRC+ vs RHP is terrible by the way, he isn't even excelling at his one job

 

Some of the projection systems already think Barger is a better hitter

 

Certainly Spencer Horwitz is a better hitter. Interestingly Horwitz is getting some reps at 2B and LF recently. I wonder if they want him to supplant Biggio ASAP!

 

I bet the front office is embarrassed about how Biggio looks on this new statcast bat tracking data. It is really embarrassing. It's like a photo leaking of your front office micropenis, basically. Ross is probably flustered.

 

lmao

[BigCecil]

Varsho has 150 PAs. His chase and BB rates percentiles way better than '23. Sitting on a 113 wRC+ and on pace for 28 HRs.

 

27% better than last yr. Big time valuable player if he can maintain the approach and outcomes.

[Olerud363]

Varsho has 150 PAs. His chase and BB rates percentiles way better than '23. Sitting on a 113 wRC+ and on pace for 28 HRs.

 

27% better than last yr. Big time valuable player if he can maintain the approach and outcomes.

 

What is the all time record for WAR hitting under .200? Varsho I imagine hitting .208 and on pace for 5WAR could challenge that if he slips to .198

[BigCecil]

What is the all time record for WAR hitting under .200? Varsho I imagine hitting .208 and on pace for 5WAR could challenge that if he slips to .198

 

Schwarber hit .197 with 47 HRs and a .333 OBP. His D was so bad his WAR was 0.9 in 2023. He is the Silverbach who actually hits home runs.

[L54]

Tonight’s game is on Apple TV

[wilko]

Tonight’s game is on Apple TV

 

This is the positivity thread! Get that s*** outta here!

[Olerud363]

Schwarber hit .197 with 47 HRs and a .333 OBP. His D was so bad his WAR was 0.9 in 2023. He is the Silverbach who actually hits home runs.

 

Joey Gallo 2021 hit .199 with 4.3 fWAR based on defense, walks and homeruns. That's the highest fWAR with batting average below .200 since 1975 as far as I can see. I did not go back farther than that.

 

Varsho has a chance to break that record but needs to keep his current walk rate and power going. His walks and power aren't at Gallo level, but with his better defense he could do this.

 

It would be an hilarious record and somewhat appropriate.

[Olerud363]

Another positive and kind of hilarious thing that is happening to the 2024 Blue Jays is that Vlad is challenging for second place in Blue Jays WAR with a unique season.

 

He is now on track for 3 WAR hitting .270 .370 .370 with 14 homers.

 

I hope he heats up average wise, his defense rocks, he walks alot and his power continues to be absence and he ends up something like .295 .390 .380, with true gold glove deserving 1st base defense, 9 homeruns, and 4.5 WAR.

 

What the hell do they do with him then? Nobody will know what to do. His agent won't know what to do. The Jays won't know what to do. The arbitrator won't know what to do. The stupid gold glove voters won't know what to do (probably give the gold glove to some ******* with worse defense but more homers).

[L54]

This is the positivity thread! Get that s*** outta here!

 

Felt like the most appropriate spot to remind people