2024 Hall of Fame

[Terminator]

Beltre, Helton and Mauer were elected.

 

[Terminator]

That was Sheffield's last year.

 

I think he should have gotten in. Seems like he's better than Helton and Mauer but he's got some steroid stuff I think and he didn't kiss the writers' asses enough during his career.

[Brownie19]

Man - I'm filled with some emotions as I read the list of players. I watched every single on of these players grind it out and battle during their careers. Most brought such great joy and entertainment to my life. Congrats to Beltre, Mauer and Helton. My boy, Billy Wagner is next and I hope to see Andruw Jones and Beltran follow him. I'm surprised Utley was only at 28.8% and I do hope one day we recognize the PED users and put them in where they belong.

[itaos]

Andruw Jones should have learned to backflip like Ozzie Smith

[Laika]

Didn't expect Helton or Mauer first ballot

[BTS]

Was Sheffield a confirmed PED user? I've lost track of all the reasons why voters are keeping HoF-caliber players out

[thatoneguy]

Was Sheffield a confirmed PED user? I've lost track of all the reasons why voters are keeping HoF-caliber players out

 

He was in the Mitchell Report/BALCO scandal.

[Grant77]

I'm still shocked that Cito Gaston didn't get in, especially with the recent push to honour more African Americans. He gets a bit of the Bonds treatment due to his poor relationship with the media despite an easily HOF calibre career.

[Jays24]

Surprised with Helton/Mauer making it with guys clearly better than them getting skipped over again but congrats to them, they were studs.

[wamco]

Didn't expect Helton or Mauer first ballot

 

Helton retired 11 years ago

[wamco]

He was in the Mitchell Report/BALCO scandal.

 

Admitted to cream or clear. Also threw balls away in MIL in attempt to get traded

[wamco]

Helton and mauer are just misses for me.

Wagner as well. And a jones. Beltre

Career looks PED user to me but never caught. Nor was big papi til

The end

[Jonn]

Mauer first ballot kind of surprised me but Beltre is right although I am surprised he was 95% first ballot. But if you look at his numbers I don’t even think some people understand how good of career he had. I remember when he signed that big deal with Seattle and people were saying its one of the worst contracts ever at the time.

 

Todd Helton is a borderline HOF at best.

[Sorrow]

I'm fine with Mauer getting in catchers are vastly under represented in the hall and Mauer is probably a top 20-25 catcher of all time.

 

It's going to be interesting when McCann and Martin come up for HoF eligibility as they're both as good if not better than Mauer and they're as good as Molina but Molina played in 500-600 more games than both.

 

Molina 55.6 fWAR, 56.4 WARp 2226 games

 

Mauer 53.0 fWAR, 46.4 WARp 1858 games

 

Posey 57.6 fWAR, 57 WARp 1371 games

 

Martin 54.9 fWAR, 55.7 WARp 1693 games

 

McCann 54.5 fWAR, 53.9 WARp 1755 games

[AMS528]

Mauer first ballot kind of surprised me but Beltre is right although I am surprised he was 95% first ballot. But if you look at his numbers I don’t even think some people understand how good of career he had. I remember when he signed that big deal with Seattle and people were saying its one of the worst contracts ever at the time.

 

Todd Helton is a borderline HOF at best.

 

Even in Seattle he was pretty decent. Steady, wracked up some value throughout the contract. That stadium just didn't work for him for whatever reason. He hit hit significantly better away overall during that time. If he had played on another team he might have actually managed to have the most WAR of any 3B in history.

[Spanky99]

That was Sheffield's last year.

 

I think he should have gotten in. Seems like he's better than Helton and Mauer but he's got some steroid stuff I think and he didn't kiss the writers' asses enough during his career.

 

That's disappointing.

[jaysblue]

Mauer first ballot kind of surprised me but Beltre is right although I am surprised he was 95% first ballot. But if you look at his numbers I don’t even think some people understand how good of career he had. I remember when he signed that big deal with Seattle and people were saying its one of the worst contracts ever at the time.

 

Todd Helton is a borderline HOF at best.

 

Back when he signed that Mariners deal, were they using WAR? He also came off like a 48 HR season with the Dodgers, so yeah never came even close to those numbers with the Mariners. Those were probably the expectations of fans and the sports media. A lot of emphasis was still placed on traditional offensive statistics like BA, HR and RBI totals across baseball amongst writers and in the sports media. As well, don't think much emphasis was placed on defensive abilities as it is today when it comes to contracts and determining how really valuable a player is.

[jaysblue]

Man - I'm filled with some emotions as I read the list of players. I watched every single on of these players grind it out and battle during their careers. Most brought such great joy and entertainment to my life. Congrats to Beltre, Mauer and Helton. My boy, Billy Wagner is next and I hope to see Andruw Jones and Beltran follow him. I'm surprised Utley was only at 28.8% and I do hope one day we recognize the PED users and put them in where they belong.

 

Wagner, Jone and Beltran should definitely get in next season.

[jaysblue]

That was Sheffield's last year.

 

I think he should have gotten in. Seems like he's better than Helton and Mauer but he's got some steroid stuff I think and he didn't kiss the writers' asses enough during his career.

 

It's all politics when it comes to certain players. No doubt Sheff should have been in.

 

Shocked to see Mauer get in on the first ballot. He put up some really fantastic seasons with Minnesota but he also didn't have the longevity as some other players, which would be mine concern. Deserves to be in Cooperstown, but not on the first ballot IMO. Hope Russell Martin could get in, but I'm sure he'll have to wait a decade.

 

Beltre should have been 100% voted in. One of the best overall third basemen we have seen in the game overall.

[John_Havok]

It's all politics when it comes to certain players. No doubt Sheff should have been in.

 

Shocked to see Mauer get in on the first ballot. He put up some really fantastic seasons with Minnesota but he also didn't have the longevity as some other players, which would be mine concern. Deserves to be in Cooperstown, but not on the first ballot IMO. Hope Russell Martin could get in, but I'm sure he'll have to wait a decade.

 

Beltre should have been 100% voted in. One of the best overall third basemen we have seen in the game overall.

 

I’ll never understand the supposed logic of “Deserves to be in Cooperstown, but not on the first ballot IMO”

 

Unless you’re just trying to predict how other people will vote with the idiotic 10 player limits

[Olerud363]

Beltre, Helton and Mauer were elected.

 

John Olerud has more fWAR then either Helton or Mauer, and his wRC+ is almost as good as Helton's (130 vs 132).

 

John Olerud playing 155 games a year and not platooned. He missed an average of 200 PAs in 90, 91, 92, 94, 95 and 96. Mostly because of Cito, a little because of a strike.

 

a) His extra at bats would be against lefties, so not quite as much power but conservative estimate is he get's 5 more fWAR and a bunch of his '15 hr 60 rbi' seasons become more like 20 hr 80 rbi seasons. So he is a 60 fWAR guy, and his baseball card looks 'more complete.

 

If you assume that being platooned had some non-linear effects a) not being exposed to lefties early in career, so did not learn to hit them, and psychological effects, then who knows what we lost. He repeated 93 in 98. There is massive evidence that his ceiling was one of the great pure hitters of all time. He only hit the ceiling twice, but brought up in a more supportive environment?

 

What if John Olerud and Helton switched parks and managers?

 

Olerud and Mauer pretty similar as hitters. Another interesting question what if Mauer played 155 games a year as a 1b men right from age 21? Probably lasts longer and hits better into his 30s. So probably a hall-of-famer still and maybe one guy that would have been more valuable as a 1b (his catcher d-numbers aren't mind blowing or anything).

[Brownie19]

This a must watch.

 

 

Narrated by long time teammate, Justin Morneau. How can you not be romantic about baseball. You can show all the WAR stats you want, but there's little doubt in my mind that Mauer had a HOF career. His longevity was cut short due to the concussions unfortunately, but it's hard to argue against the greatness of this player during his peak.

[AMS528]

So it's still a somewhat crowded ballot, but at least with Mauer and Beltre getting in as first year candidates it doesn't create additional backlog. And Helton got in clearing another spot.

 

Next year is two more definitely HOF players in Ichiro and CC. Ichiro is a mortal lock, could come close to getting every single vote and really should get every vote.

 

CC didn't have the peak of most HOF pitchers, but the standards have changed for pitchers. He'll get in but maybe not next year.

 

So probably Ichiro, Wagner, maybe CC and maybe Andruw Jones. Beltran might need another year.

 

It might be 2026 when we see a real clearout of the close candidates. Guys like Beltran, A-Rod, Utley and Sabathia (if he doesn't make it in 2025) are going to see bigger boosts cause the closest candidate to making it in is going to be like Cole Hamels and Edwin and they're absolutely not making it. 2027 is light as well with just Buster Posey. If CC makes it in 2025, then you've got a real clearout potentially happening in the backlog for two years running.

 

There could also be an unexpected candidate or two (Abreu or Petitte probably) get a bigger jump because of that.

Edited January 24, 2024 by AMS528

[John_Havok]

So it's still a somewhat crowded ballot, but at least with Mauer and Beltre getting in as first year candidates it doesn't create additional backlog. And Helton got in clearing another spot.

 

Next year is two more definitely HOF players in Ichiro and CC. Ichiro is a mortal lock, could come close to getting every single vote and really should get every vote.

 

CC didn't have the peak of most HOF pitchers, but the standards have changed for pitchers. He'll get in but maybe not next year.

 

So probably Ichiro, Wagner, maybe CC and maybe Andruw Jones. Beltran might need another year.

 

It might be 2026 when we see a real clearout of the close candidates. Guys like Beltran, A-Rod, Utley and Sabathia (if he doesn't make it in 2025) are going to see bigger boosts cause the closest candidate to making it in is going to be like Cole Hamels and Edwin and they're absolutely not making it. 2027 is light as well with just Buster Posey. If CC makes it in 2025, then you've got a real clearout potentially happening in the backlog for two years running.

 

There could also be an unexpected candidate or two (Abreu or Petitte probably) get a bigger jump because of that.

 

If Pettitte gets in while keeping other guys steroid guys out, they should just stop the voting altogether and disband the Hall as it would be rendered completely meaningless. as it stands now it's on the brink of irrelevance.

[wamco]

The museum makes close to 1.2m a month, I think it is doing ok.

[Brownie19]

I love Cooperstown and the Baseball HOF. I agree there have been some questionable voting and additions to the hall, but as a baseball fan - I want to support the HOF and maintain it's image as a mythical place - home to the greats of the game. A tribute to baseball. IMO, baseball does it 1000x better than any other sport. The Doubleday field and the surrounding diamonds, with all the baseball tournaments they hold annually. IMO, it's a beautiful tribute to this amazing game. Looks past some of the scars it has and enjoy it.

[mphenhef]

Mauer first ballot kind of surprised me but Beltre is right although I am surprised he was 95% first ballot. But if you look at his numbers I don’t even think some people understand how good of career he had. I remember when he signed that big deal with Seattle and people were saying its one of the worst contracts ever at the time.

 

Todd Helton is a borderline HOF at best.

 

I'd argue 95% was too low and 4.9% of voters don't have a clue.

[Brownie19]

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2828858/the-hall-of-fame-remains-too-exclusive-but-that-might-be-changing

 

Interesting article - that suggests MORE modern day players should be getting into the hall. I have to think those numbers rise up if they let the PED users in.

[Spanky99]

I'd argue 95% was too low and 4.9% of voters don't have a clue.

 

Yeah, dude was sublime to watch play this game.

[Terminator]

I'm fine with Mauer getting in catchers are vastly under represented in the hall and Mauer is probably a top 20-25 catcher of all time.

 

It's going to be interesting when McCann and Martin come up for HoF eligibility as they're both as good if not better than Mauer and they're as good as Molina but Molina played in 500-600 more games than both.

 

Molina 55.6 fWAR, 56.4 WARp 2226 games

 

Mauer 53.0 fWAR, 46.4 WARp 1858 games

 

Posey 57.6 fWAR, 57 WARp 1371 games

 

Martin 54.9 fWAR, 55.7 WARp 1693 games

 

McCann 54.5 fWAR, 53.9 WARp 1755 games

 

Molina is definitely getting in. In the past 20+ years, the writers have had a bigger hard on for him outside of any player not named Ortiz or Jeter. Posey will also get in. I don't think Martin or McCann will get even close.