Around Baseball 2024

[Laika]

Also, people ALWAYS get spooked by the rush of pitcher injuries in March and April and then it smooths out.

 

Most of these guys going down have been hurt since last year and it either finally snapped when they ramped back up or the pain they have sort of been dealing with since the end of 2023 has just failed to go away.

[Laika]

Probably will jinx it now but...I wonder if the Jays have found the secret sauce in terms of pitcher health? Other than Manoah and a couple of fringy pitchers like Merryweather and Pearson, this team keeps their pitchers pretty healthy. And it's been a trend going back a good ten years. How many times have we seen someone say "well you can't expect such good luck with pitcher health again" on this board?

 

As for what we've seen happening with the injuries. Been saying this for years. Tampa Bay's front office has been a scourge for baseball. League basically has to try to undo all this ******** this franchise has created going back to 2009 with their "smart" way of playing the game. And all the dipshits who have been sucking up to this "great" front office need to be thrown into the sun with them. Short term thinking is such a perfect way to categorize it. But, you know, anyone who spoke up against these trends were just old dinosaurs who didn't know how to use a computer.

 

I don't really think it's secret sauce as much as just having a preference for or targeting guys who don't rely on extreme stuff or max velocity and then executing that preference successfully.

 

Many of their free agent signings or trade acquisitions fit this description. Bassitt is a junker, Berrios is smooth and doesn't overthrow. Kikuchi and Gausman have more extreme stuff but I don't think they are like max effort guys or anything.

 

Stripling, even Ryu who did get hurt.

 

Robbie Ray is one exception and they decided not to lock into him long term and look what happened.

 

The player they kind of let Marcus Stroman become is a more injury-free pitch to contact guy and not the strikeout artist he COULD have been.

 

 

It's interesting because it is a strength at the MLB level over time. Your pitchers stay healthy and you have an edge on a certain kind of pitching. But on the development side, it could explain why Toronto has not been as good at developing pitchers; the kinds of SP they like at the MLB level are not exactly congruent with what modern baseball science chases in pitching prospects! They are good at recognizing the long-term value of Jose Berrios but it's much harder to make your own Jose Berrios because you are kind of swimming against the currents of modern baseball science. Most teams are trying to give pitchers nasty stuff, a guy like Berrios is more of a total package product with average stuff across the board.

 

So you get these big stuff guys like Aaron Sanchez, Nate Pearson, maybe even Ricky Tiedemann (gulp) and they are an awkward fit for the organization on the developmental side of things? Possibly? I dunno, just some stray thinking.

[Eat My Shatkins]

This is actually a really good point. I think the only major league pitchers to break for Toronto in the last 10 years or so are Ken Giles and Ryu?

 

Mayza also broke when he was just breaking in with the Jays a few years ago

[BTS]

I don't really think it's secret sauce as much as just having a preference for or targeting guys who don't rely on extreme stuff or max velocity and then executing that preference successfully.

 

Many of their free agent signings or trade acquisitions fit this description. Bassitt is a junker, Berrios is smooth and doesn't overthrow. Kikuchi and Gausman have more extreme stuff but I don't think they are like max effort guys or anything.

 

Stripling, even Ryu who did get hurt.

 

Robbie Ray is one exception and they decided not to lock into him long term and look what happened.

 

The player they kind of let Marcus Stroman become is a more injury-free pitch to contact guy and not the strikeout artist he COULD have been.

 

 

It's interesting because it is a strength at the MLB level over time. Your pitchers stay healthy and you have an edge on a certain kind of pitching. But on the development side, it could explain why Toronto has not been as good at developing pitchers; the kinds of SP they like at the MLB level are not exactly congruent with what modern baseball science chases in pitching prospects! They are good at recognizing the long-term value of Jose Berrios but it's much harder to make your own Jose Berrios because you are kind of swimming against the currents of modern baseball science. Most teams are trying to give pitchers nasty stuff, a guy like Berrios is more of a total package product with average stuff across the board.

 

So you get these big stuff guys like Aaron Sanchez, Nate Pearson, maybe even Ricky Tiedemann (gulp) and they are an awkward fit for the organization on the developmental side of things? Possibly? I dunno, just some stray thinking.

 

It's interesting, because in some ways Toronto is almost doing what people are suggesting MLB should incentivize teams to do: valuing guys who don't have the loudest stuff but might be more likely to stay on the field. To the extent that that they seem to have pushed Stroman in that direction. And it seems to be working pretty well.

[BTS]

[Laika]

White Sox are such a dumpster fire. They suck and are wasting playing time on:

 

Robbie Grossman, Kevin Pillar, Martin Maldonado, Paul DeJong, Tim Hill, Dominic Leone, Bryan Shaw.

 

These guys suck and are all 30+. Some of them are 36+. What is the point of rostering them? You might win one more game and be 70-92 rather than 69-93?

They could have replaced all of them with younger waiver claim players and it would make more sense for their organization.

Could have made max # of Rule5 selections and any Rule5 player would make more sense then Kevin Pillar lmao.

 

They should have traded Robert this offseason. It's a clear rebuild and he was a star with huge value and an injury history. Dumb hold.

[BTS]

Nick Pivetta to the IL with flexor strain in his elbow. The bloodbath continues.

[Brownie19]

Probably will jinx it now but...I wonder if the Jays have found the secret sauce in terms of pitcher health? Other than Manoah and a couple of fringy pitchers like Merryweather and Pearson, this team keeps their pitchers pretty healthy. And it's been a trend going back a good ten years. How many times have we seen someone say "well you can't expect such good luck with pitcher health again" on this board?

 

As for what we've seen happening with the injuries. Been saying this for years. Tampa Bay's front office has been a scourge for baseball. League basically has to try to undo all this ******** this franchise has created going back to 2009 with their "smart" way of playing the game. And all the dipshits who have been sucking up to this "great" front office need to be thrown into the sun with them. Short term thinking is such a perfect way to categorize it. But, you know, anyone who spoke up against these trends were just old dinosaurs who didn't know how to use a computer.

 

I don't know how you call everything that TB is doing "********". Would you rather they just take the traditional approach and simply be a broken, bottom feeding franchise?

 

Does TB value pitchers and make efforts to protect them and lock them up long term? No they don't, but they also aren't exactly a team that only values velocity. In the past, they've built pitching staffs with all different types of pitchers. Guys who throw from different angles, different speeds, different pitches. Guys like Ryan Yarbough and Ryan Thompson. They take chances on pitchers who've been hurt before - but that's because they can get them cheaper than established guys.

 

I'm never going to hate on a team that's innovative and thinking outside the box to compete. MLB doesn't need more teams like the Colorado Rockies FFS. We don't need the 1970's White Sox where the Owner focused on promotions to draw in fans because they were broke and the team was so s***** (watch The Saint of Second Chances!!!!). Baseball will adjust, it always does.

 

And it's certainly not a new strategy to avoid building your team around young pitching. We've all see teams who've tried this and had it blow up in their faces (Mets). We watched the Cubs prioritize drafting position players and buying/trading for veteran pitchers.

 

The velo training is also 2 fold. There are TONS of pitchers who would have never reached the majors if they kept trying to paint the corners with their 4 pitch mix, while throwing 91. They would have road the buses forever. There are so many pitchers who re-invented themselves and are now either in the majors, or at least got a legit shot in the majors because they got in the lab and trained to throw 97 with a slider. If you go ask those guys if the risk of blowing out your elbow is worth it - I bet almost all of them will say it is to pitch in the majors. Most of the pitchers who speak out about this are old, great (or previously great) guys making millions of dollars who never had to face the decision to either give up on baseball, ride the buses for another few years or reinvent themselves.

[Spanky__99]

Bosox Nick Pivetta to the IL with a flexor strain, Trevor Story out for season with a glenoid fracture, subluxation and surgery.

 

Oof...

[Laika]

Bosox Nick Pivetta to the IL with a flexor strain, Trevor Story out for season with a glenoid fracture, subluxation and surgery.

 

Oof...

 

Bro the Red Sox have lost Pivetta, Giolito, and Story for the full year.

 

And they are throwing $50M+ extensions at Bello and Raffaela???

 

Bad times in Boston. Stinky summer.

 

Also, the return for Sale isn't even playing yet.

[G-Snarls]

Bro the Red Sox have lost Pivetta, Giolito, and Story for the full year.

 

And they are throwing $50M+ extensions at Bello and Raffaela???

 

Bad times in Boston. Stinky summer.

 

Also, the return for Sale isn't even playing yet.

 

"When you make these big, BIG bets"...

 

- Chaim Bloom

Edited April 9, 2024 by G-Snarls

[G-Snarls]

Mookie Betts has probably out-WAR'd the total of all the players they've signed since

[Spanky__99]

This Bosox opener with the 20th Anniversary and tribute to the Wakefield's was great.

 

Who cut the onions, man. His daughter threw out the first pitch to Varitek and embraced halfway(he raises them I believe) she carried off the WS Trophy with the '04 team, so bittersweet.

 

RIP to the Wakefield's, those poor kids losing their dad and mom in 5 months, so tragic.

[Laika]

This Bosox opener with the 20th Anniversary and tribute to the Wakefield's was great.

 

Who cut the onions, man. His daughter threw out the first pitch to Varitek and carried off the WS Trophy with the '04 team, so bittersweet.

 

RIP to the Wakefield's, those poor kids losing their dad and mom in 5 months, so tragic.

 

Damn those kids are still pretty young. 20 and 19.

 

At least they are millionaires.

[Spanky__99]

Bednar ain't right. Wow, and the game is now blown, B2B for him with terrible command.

 

f*** they would've went to 10-2...

Edited April 9, 2024 by Spanky99

[Spanky__99]

O'Neill with his 6th bomb, giver man. <-- LOD owned.

[Spanky__99]

Tejay Antone to the IL... elbow surgery, lol. Deez Nutz

[Spanky__99]

Damn those kids are still pretty young. 20 and 19.

 

At least they are millionaires.

 

Apparently Timmins had the whole team get up and he told them we are all your family, your uncles, etc... great to have that support and money, but that has to be so f***ing hard at that age, they should be passing on when their grandkids are at least that age, really sad... f*** CANCER!!!

[hanton]

Moncada down hard on a ground out - looks like he pulled his hamstring

[hanton]

Eloy is due back soon though lol

[Abomination]

Also, people ALWAYS get spooked by the rush of pitcher injuries in March and April and then it smooths out.

 

Most of these guys going down have been hurt since last year and it either finally snapped when they ramped back up or the pain they have sort of been dealing with since the end of 2023 has just failed to go away.

 

I wonder how the injuries correlate to off-season throwing? It seems like some of these guys take a few weeks off then start throwing again right away and do so all offseason. Maybe they're just not giving their arms enough time to rest and heal. David Wells used to just show up to ST and was like well, maybe I'd better actually pick up a baseball again.

[Brownie19]

O's are calling up Jackson Holliday...

[jaysblue]

Bednar ain't right. Wow, and the game is now blown, B2B for him with terrible command.

 

f*** they would've went to 10-2...

 

I remember when I traded Bednar for Kelenic in the LOD this offseason, some managers thought I was crazy.

 

Kelenic off to a great start in Atlanta. Sucks for Bednar and hope he gets back to 100%. Relievers in baseball can implode anytime, so you can't hold them long term in fantasy baseball. There aren't many Mariano Rivera's, Trevor Hoffman's or Billy Wagner's around.

[Brownie19]

This Bosox opener with the 20th Anniversary and tribute to the Wakefield's was great.

 

Who cut the onions, man. His daughter threw out the first pitch to Varitek and embraced halfway(he raises them I believe) she carried off the WS Trophy with the '04 team, so bittersweet.

 

RIP to the Wakefield's, those poor kids losing their dad and mom in 5 months, so tragic.

 

Man - what an emotional moment. I must admit I was rooting for the Red Sox back in 2004 (I was still more a White Sox fan than a Jays fan at that time - which paid off nicely in 2005). So many great players on that team - finally breaking the curse.

[BaseballIsLife]

Damn those kids are still pretty young. 20 and 19.

 

At least they are millionaires.

 

Sad. I lost a parent at right after turning 21 and it was awful. To lose two at that age back to back is crushing. RIP.

[BCZ]

Trout not happy unless he's the best hitter in baseball

[Stangstag]

Man - what an emotional moment. I must admit I was rooting for the Red Sox back in 2004 (I was still more a White Sox fan than a Jays fan at that time - which paid off nicely in 2005). So many great players on that team - finally breaking the curse.

 

Gross

[Brownie19]

Glasnow struck out 14 batters tonight over 7 scoreless innings on only 88 pitches. Unreal

[Orgfiller]

O's are calling up Jackson Holliday...

 

Complete fumbling of the bag by them to not have him on the Opening Day roster. Could easily lose a draft pick as a result, all for him to play 9 games in AAA after dominating in Spring Training.

[John_Havok]

Complete fumbling of the bag by them to not have him on the Opening Day roster. Could easily lose a draft pick as a result, all for him to play 9 games in AAA after dominating in Spring Training.

 

and he could still win ROY or place high enough to get his full season of service time anyways, so ... the manipulation aspect of it makes no sense either