Around Baseball 2024

[John_Havok]

It would be the right thing to do? The records would still be separated as Negro, AL, NL. Studies of the performance of Negro League players who joined MLB at the time of integration indicate they were of comparable quality. The historical perception of the Negro League as inferior is probably wrong.

 

The absolute best of the Negro leagues for sure would have been stars in MLB, but to say that the overall skill in the Negro Leagues was on par with MLB is doubtful. More likely the Negro Leagues were a lot like early early MLB where the best guys were so far ahead of the worst players that they stood out way more.

[Jimcanuck]

The absolute best of the Negro leagues for sure would have been stars in MLB, but to say that the overall skill in the Negro Leagues was on par with MLB is doubtful. More likely the Negro Leagues were a lot like early early MLB where the best guys were so far ahead of the worst players that they stood out way more.

 

Yes the talent may have been thin, but that was probably true of all the leagues at the time. A lot of these guys were farmers when not playing ball.

[AMS528]

The absolute best of the Negro leagues for sure would have been stars in MLB, but to say that the overall skill in the Negro Leagues was on par with MLB is doubtful. More likely the Negro Leagues were a lot like early early MLB where the best guys were so far ahead of the worst players that they stood out way more.

 

It's definitely possible there's some truth to that, but the hit rate for guys who played in the Negro Leagues and then came to MLB was amazingly good. Forget the HOFers, cause there were a bunch of those, but the guys who came over in their mid to late 30's like Sam Jethroe, Luke Easter, or Bob Boyd and still put up solid seasons when they were nearing the end of their careers. There were plenty who came over who weren't the absolute best and were making all star games.

[Stangstag]

It would be the right thing to do? The records would still be separated as Negro, AL, NL. Studies of the performance of Negro League players who joined MLB at the time of integration indicate they were of comparable quality. The historical perception of the Negro League as inferior is probably wrong.

 

Its the right thing to do to say Negro league players are the record holders in MLB when they never actually played in the MLB??

 

Interesting.

 

Also from my understanding, this “record-breaking” season that Josh Gibson now holds all the MLB records for was a whole 250 plate appearances. This is a farce.

[BCZ]

Pillar > everyone else

[connorp]

Why tho?

 

Same reason Bauer never steps on an mlb mound again

[Jimcanuck]

Its the right thing to do to say Negro league players are the record holders in MLB when they never actually played in the MLB??

 

Interesting.

 

Also from my understanding, this “record-breaking” season that Josh Gibson now holds all the MLB records for was a whole 250 plate appearances. This is a farce.

 

I don't put much stock in anything Nightengale posts. Doubt that's how it will be framed.

[Stangstag]

I don't put much stock in anything Nightengale posts. Doubt that's how it will be framed.

 

True, he could be wrong

[L54]

 

Enjoy this thread

[Omar]

It's definitely possible there's some truth to that, but the hit rate for guys who played in the Negro Leagues and then came to MLB was amazingly good. Forget the HOFers, cause there were a bunch of those, but the guys who came over in their mid to late 30's like Sam Jethroe, Luke Easter, or Bob Boyd and still put up solid seasons when they were nearing the end of their careers. There were plenty who came over who weren't the absolute best and were making all star games.

 

Just the fact that Satchel Paige could enter the league in his 40's and be competitive is indicative of the reality that the Negro leagues were at a level on par with the majors. Of course organization and training and practice methods were far behind but that was a function of socio economic factors which we need not get into here.

[Brownie19]

What's up with Julio this year? I believe he struggled to start last year too, but his power seems to be gone. Is the league finding holes?

[Carlos Danger]

AP: Reports are coming out that Angel Hernandez's retirement came out from a meeting with top MLB officials. Officials were questioning Hernandez's ability to see and comprehend correctly. Angel got so worked up that he stormed out and slammed the door behind himself. It took Angel 10 minutes to realize he was in the closet...His announcement of retirement came soon after.

[Orgfiller]

What's up with Julio this year? I believe he struggled to start last year too, but his power seems to be gone. Is the league finding holes?

 

Under the hood he's not really significantly different than his other seasons. The hard hit, avg exit velos are all in line with his previous hitting profile and still indicates a dangerous hitter exists in there. The biggest drop offs have been in barrel rate, and more importantly the plate discipline -> K/BB rate. Julio's always been quite the hacker, he's generally been in the 20-30th percentile in chase and whiff rates to go along with K and BB rate, this season it's all the way down to 10-15th percentile. He's swinging at everything and whiffing a bunch, which could be a result of pressing at not seeing the results from hitting the ball hard and getting hits.

 

It's a Bichette profile with a grade or two lower in hit tool and a grade or two above in power. Julio (and Bo similarly) will be fine, but this kind of profile can lead to some pretty bad looking slumps. The luck will even out and the power will carry him to a hot streak to make him look like he made an adjustment when really all he needs is a slight improvement in plate discipline.

[Spanky__99]

AP: Reports are coming out that Angel Hernandez's retirement came out from a meeting with top MLB officials. Officials were questioning Hernandez's ability to see and comprehend correctly. Angel got so worked up that he stormed out and slammed the door behind himself. It took Angel 10 minutes to realize he was in the closet...His announcement of retirement came soon after.

 

lol... well played.

[connorp]

AP: Reports are coming out that Angel Hernandez's retirement came out from a meeting with top MLB officials. Officials were questioning Hernandez's ability to see and comprehend correctly. Angel got so worked up that he stormed out and slammed the door behind himself. It took Angel 10 minutes to realize he was in the closet...His announcement of retirement came soon after.

 

It wouldn’t be unheard of if they offered him an extra incentive for a retirement package. It happens.

[Masterbather]

Its the right thing to do to say Negro league players are the record holders in MLB when they never actually played in the MLB??

 

Interesting.

 

Also from my understanding, this “record-breaking” season that Josh Gibson now holds all the MLB records for was a whole 250 plate appearances. This is a farce.

 

They need to stop trying to fix things that are not fixable. The past happened, it is what it is. Nobody was looking down on the Negro League, everybody understood what was happening. But you can't just wholesale apply the numbers of one league to a completely different one. It's farcical. It cheapens both leagues to me.

[Terminator]

Its the right thing to do to say Negro league players are the record holders in MLB when they never actually played in the MLB??

 

Interesting.

 

Also from my understanding, this “record-breaking” season that Josh Gibson now holds all the MLB records for was a whole 250 plate appearances. This is a farce.

 

What sabremetrician has the balls to publish an article where he assigns MLB equivalencies to Negro League players' career stats by adjusting their numbers down? lol

 

"While Gibson slashed .374/.458/.720 in his career, his MLB equivalencies suggest that he was a true talent .249/.345/.468 hitter. Certainly above average, but not nearly as good as his reputation would suggest."

[Laika]

Josh Gibson career

 

.374/.458/.720/1.178

 

Josh Gibson MLE

 

.324/.398/.595/.994

 

 

If you extrapolate the playing time for MLB season length and use that OPS, he'd be like Stan Musial, Jimmie Foxx, or Mickey Mantle. So still a 100 WAR career and a fantastic, all-time player but *this poster was arrested for being racist*

[Laika]

What sabremetrician has the balls to publish an article where he assigns MLB equivalencies to Negro League players' career stats by adjusting their numbers down? lol

 

"While Gibson slashed .374/.458/.720 in his career, his MLB equivalencies suggest that he was a true talent .249/.345/.468 hitter. Certainly above average, but not nearly as good as his reputation would suggest."

 

https://horsehidedragnet.wordpress.com/negro-leagues/

 

scroll to bottom click download

[Spanky__99]

Josh Gibson career

 

.374/.458/.720/1.178

 

Josh Gibson MLE

 

.324/.398/.595/.994

 

 

If you extrapolate the playing time for MLB season length and use that OPS, he'd be like Stan Musial, Jimmie Foxx, or Mickey Mantle. So still a 100 WAR career and a fantastic, all-time player but *this poster was arrested for being racist*

 

Nice company.

[Terminator]

Josh Gibson career

 

.374/.458/.720/1.178

 

Josh Gibson MLE

 

.324/.398/.595/.994

 

 

If you extrapolate the playing time for MLB season length and use that OPS, he'd be like Stan Musial, Jimmie Foxx, or Mickey Mantle. So still a 100 WAR career and a fantastic, all-time player but *this poster was arrested for being racist*

 

I always knew that Gibson guy was a great player. Just wasn't sure how good. But obviously one of the all time greats. Would have smashed MLB pitching. Too bad he never got the chance. Great player. I love Josh Gibson and all Negro League players.

 

Have you ever seen Ken Burns' Baseball? Great documentary and it gives a lot of deserved attention to the Negro League players. Great players and even better people. Nothing but respect for them. Josh Gibson.

[Laika]

my third best friend is black

 

i think

[Stangstag]

From https://www.mlb.com/news/faq-negro-leagues-stats-major-league-record

 

As for career leaderboards, the current standard for career MLB leaders is 5,000 at-bats and 2,000 innings pitched, which roughly equates to 10 full qualifying seasons (5,020 at-bats and 1,620 innings). Therefore, for Negro Leagues players, this standard has been set at 1,800 at-bats and 600 innings -- roughly the equivalent of 10 seasons’ worth of 60-game seasons.

 

This is f***ing dumb overall, but MLB has plenty of issues like Bonds, Arod and others not being in the HoF. So this is par for the course.

[Stangstag]

Half the top record-holders for hitting stats all-time are now Negro League players that NEVER PLAYED IN THE MLB

[mphenhef]

Is it really an issue that Hugh Duffy, who played in a league pre-integration that had a collective batting average of .309 and an ERA of 5.33 is no longer the single season batting average leader? To me, it's not.

[Brownie19]

Half the top record-holders for hitting stats all-time are now Negro League players that NEVER PLAYED IN THE MLB

 

Because they weren't allowed to, solely due to the colour of their skin. You're going to need to get over this. People will learn the stats from those players/records are unique, but it will create good conversation on the atrocities of our past.

[Masterbather]

So do MLB records also apply to the Negro League?

 

By definition they must. It has to go both ways to make logical sense.

 

This whole thing is so comically jumbled. Anyhow, baseball is the game of asterisks anyhow. Might as well as some more.

[Carlos Danger]

https://babylonbee.com/news/retired-angel-hernandez-gets-new-job-running-quality-control-for-boeing?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3wTgO--zknfNTTtSsV0PM4yGlWutg8WdLlSnzkcbDXMELiobuC30XXqug_aem_AcjMFxJe2Y_hOspClIbbdUz22BYHGrQgtZxlSyH4UkpympYWuhOX4b-7-YFyLcoQs2ZGu4HbnILt7BOknMgdZREn

 

More Angel Hernandez news.

[wilko]

 

What's next? Adding retired players beer league stats?

[L54]

So do MLB records also apply to the Negro League?

 

By definition they must. It has to go both ways to make logical sense.

 

This whole thing is so comically jumbled. Anyhow, baseball is the game of asterisks anyhow. Might as well as some more.

 

No because whites can’t have records in the Negro League. They were extremely privileged farmers who don’t deserve additional recognition

 

Josh Gibson is the greatest baseball player to ever live. Retire his number

 

Jackie Robinson. Wayne Gretzky. Michael Jordan. Josh Gibson