2023 MLB Postseason Thread

[jaysblue]

Longoria is relevant again

 

He's been pretty solid this year when in the lineup. His bat still plays.

[Olerud363]

Same here. I thought with what we gave up, we'd get a guy like Carroll or Cedric Mullins. Giving up an athletic freak instead of a fat f*** was always the bad long term decision.

 

Moreno's injury in 2021 really f***ed the team, missed like 3/4 of the season after starting off hot as hell, .370 .430 .600 or something. He was on pace to be a legit 1 or 2 overall prospect and if he had played a full 2021, and likely the thumb injury throttled his 2022 numbers a bit. Just didn't have that 'top 5' prospect shine, like Carroll and it was too bad, as Moreno for another top 5 prospects might have been on the table if it wasn't for that injury.

 

Cedric Mullins? Maybe there is still a chance for Varsho to have a couple seasons like that. Mullins didn't blossom until 27 or 28.

[hanton]

He's been pretty solid this year when in the lineup. His bat still plays.

 

barely, just had a look at his numbers and he's basically Chapman

[L54]

I see Front Row Amy still exists

[hanton]

This dbacks/brewers series is quite enjoyable ...

[Masterbather]

The Phillies organization, who is ruthlessly mocked here, looking like they’ll have no trouble advancing and possibly making noise in the post season again

People here like to s*** on other teams and other organizations, but for some reason ours is handled with kid gloves.

[Stangstag]

Game started at 2:30PM and it's at the Trop.

 

I went to a game at the Trop vs. the Dodgers on a Saturday at 4PM and the place was packed. I think timing plays a big role, even at a crappy ballpark like the Trop haha

 

That’s because it was 90% Dodgers fans

[Stangstag]

Moreno's injury in 2021 really f***ed the team, missed like 3/4 of the season after starting off hot as hell, .370 .430 .600 or something. He was on pace to be a legit 1 or 2 overall prospect and if he had played a full 2021, and likely the thumb injury throttled his 2022 numbers a bit. Just didn't have that 'top 5' prospect shine, like Carroll and it was too bad, as Moreno for another top 5 prospects might have been on the table if it wasn't for that injury.

 

Cedric Mullins? Maybe there is still a chance for Varsho to have a couple seasons like that. Mullins didn't blossom until 27 or 28.

 

True. Wondering if the same thing happens with Tiedeman this offseason….

 

Gotta think Atkins is going all in. Lots of holes in the lineup to replace. The shine isn’t really there on Ricky T at the moment, but he’s the biggest trade chip we’ve got. Plus Orelvis maybe.

[L54]

True. Wondering if the same thing happens with Tiedeman this offseason….

 

Gotta think Atkins is going all in. Lots of holes in the lineup to replace. The shine isn’t really there on Ricky T at the moment, but he’s the biggest trade chip we’ve got. Plus Orelvis maybe.

 

The shine is definitely still on Tiedemann. He’s one of the three best pitching prospects in the minors

[BigCecil]

People here like to s*** on other teams and other organizations, but for some reason ours is handled with kid gloves.

 

I think this Board is an outlier. This board doesn't reflect other forums really. There is more balance here. Lots of Anti AA we are lucky to have Shatkins one or both commentary.

 

Its much more gentle on the FO overall than you would see on most forums and in PHI, NY or Bos etc. Not a bad thing really. Most of the s*** on X and Reddit etc. is unreadable.

 

If you ever listen to "Blue Jays Talk" after Jays games literally half the callers, who tune into every game, are borderline insane when it comes to ball. And the worst part is they think they know the game as they go down one rabbit hole after another.

[Stangstag]

If the jays are out in the AL, can't pick the twins or astros so unfortunately would have to be rooting for texas/rays as my AL pick, would prefer a NL team to win.

 

Gross. If the Jays lose im rooting for the Twins for the AL. I don’t harbor any resentment against them, they’re a good team and its been a while.

[Delgalladay]

The shine is definitely still on Tiedemann. He’s one of the three best pitching prospects in the minors

 

I imagine there's a Bradly Zimmer type center fielder out there that Atkins will be looking to trade him for after Kiermaier leaves.

 

Gross. If the Jays lose im rooting for the Twins for the AL. I don’t harbor any resentment against them, they’re a good team and its been a while.

 

Is it blasphemy to say I'll be rooting for the Orioles? They haven't done anything in ages and they're my brother's favorite team.

[max silver]

Moreno's injury in 2021 really f***ed the team, missed like 3/4 of the season after starting off hot as hell, .370 .430 .600 or something. He was on pace to be a legit 1 or 2 overall prospect and if he had played a full 2021, and likely the thumb injury throttled his 2022 numbers a bit. Just didn't have that 'top 5' prospect shine, like Carroll and it was too bad, as Moreno for another top 5 prospects might have been on the table if it wasn't for that injury.

 

Cedric Mullins? Maybe there is still a chance for Varsho to have a couple seasons like that. Mullins didn't blossom until 27 or 28.

 

If Moreno hadn't suffered that hand injury and lost his power for several seasons after I don't think he would have been traded in the first place.

[connorp]

I imagine there's a Bradly Zimmer type center fielder out there that Atkins will be looking to trade him for after Kiermaier leaves.

 

 

 

Is it blasphemy to say I'll be rooting for the Orioles? They haven't done anything in ages and they're my brother's favorite team.

 

RedSox/Yankees is blasphemy. Others have long stroked TB’s yang here. Nothing wrong with applauding the O’s rise. Competition is good. Brings out the best effort in everyone.

[BatFlip]

I think this Board is an outlier. This board doesn't reflect other forums really. There is more balance here. Lots of Anti AA we are lucky to have Shatkins one or both commentary.

 

Its much more gentle on the FO overall than you would see on most forums and in PHI, NY or Bos etc. Not a bad thing really. Most of the s*** on X and Reddit etc. is unreadable.

 

If you ever listen to "Blue Jays Talk" after Jays games literally half the callers, who tune into every game, are borderline insane when it comes to ball. And the worst part is they think they know the game as they go down one rabbit hole after another.

 

 

Fans, in general, are always in a rush to couch criticize all the 'morons' running their teams when things don't break right. One of the reasons I enjoy this board is that there are a number of intelligent posters here who have a more nuanced view of the front office's moves. I don't think anyone at the beginning of the year thought we'd see Springer, Vladdy, Kirk, and Chapman all have some real subpar hitting seasons.

 

Atkins has had his highlights and lowlights like almost every other GM. We've been in the playoffs three of the last four years. I think you give him another year to see if he can get us over the hump. If you're going to make a change, I really think you have to bring in a more seasoned manager and rethink the hitting coaching because something is simply not clicking for half the starting roster.

[Stangstag]

I imagine there's a Bradly Zimmer type center fielder out there that Atkins will be looking to trade him for after Kiermaier leaves.

 

 

 

Is it blasphemy to say I'll be rooting for the Orioles? They haven't done anything in ages and they're my brother's favorite team.

 

That is blasphemous, yes

[Stangstag]

If Moreno hadn't suffered that hand injury and lost his power for several seasons after I don't think he would have been traded in the first place.

 

Who knows. People seem to forget Kirk also looked like a stud before this season began. Wonder what Kirk could’ve fetched. We’ll never know.

 

It will be interesting to see who has the better bat going forward, Kirk or Moreno

[Stangstag]

Fans, in general, are always in a rush to couch criticize all the 'morons' running their teams when things don't break right. One of the reasons I enjoy this board is that there are a number of intelligent posters here who have a more nuanced view of the front office's moves. I don't think anyone at the beginning of the year thought we'd see Springer, Vladdy, Kirk, and Chapman all have some real subpar hitting seasons.

 

Atkins has had his highlights and lowlights like almost every other GM. We've been in the playoffs three of the last four years. I think you give him another year to see if he can get us over the hump. If you're going to make a change, I really think you have to bring in a more seasoned manager and rethink the hitting coaching because something is simply not clicking for half the starting roster.

 

Well said. The front office definitely deserves criticism, but simply put this lineup should be hitting far better than they are.

 

For some reason the Jays always seem to win the “on paper” discussion. The roster looks great on paper but they never meet expectations.

 

Maybe that’s a failure on Atkins part for allowing a dogshit coach in staff to run the team.

[Olerud363]

The shine is definitely still on Tiedemann. HeÂ’s one of the three best pitching prospects in the minors

 

But do front offices really see it that way just because the prospect rankings do? Moreno was the 1st overall on lists before he graduated because of days on roster, however Jays return was nothing you would expect from a 1st overall prospect.

 

And I say that as someone who actually liked the trade. I did not expect to get elite value for a guy who missed significant time and had significant power loss because of a thumb injury.

 

Same with Tiedermann. I can't see front offices offering a massive return for a guy with his injury history.

[max silver]

Who knows. People seem to forget Kirk also looked like a stud before this season began. Wonder what Kirk could’ve fetched. We’ll never know.

 

It will be interesting to see who has the better bat going forward, Kirk or Moreno

 

Kirk looked a lot better in the second half thankfully. I just hope that he can shrink the belly down a fair bit in the offseason as it actually might get in the way of his swing.

[Olerud363]

RedSox/Yankees is blasphemy. Others have long stroked TBÂ’s yang here. Nothing wrong with applauding the OÂ’s rise. Competition is good. Brings out the best effort in everyone.

 

I actually hate the Os with a passion. People think I like the Os because of my posts. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I just like what they are doing, I think they have the smartest FO in baseball.

[Olerud363]

Who knows. People seem to forget Kirk also looked like a stud before this season began. Wonder what Kirk couldÂ’ve fetched. WeÂ’ll never know.

 

It will be interesting to see who has the better bat going forward, Kirk or Moreno

 

Kirk's homerun rate, like everyone else's on the team has collapsed since 2021. 8 in 165 at bats in 2021, 8 in 373 in 2023.

[BatFlip]

But do front offices really see it that way just because the prospect rankings do? Moreno was the 1st overall on lists before he graduated because of days on roster, however Jays return was nothing you would expect from a 1st overall prospect.

 

And I say that as someone who actually liked the trade. I did not expect to get elite value for a guy who missed significant time and had significant power loss because of a thumb injury.

 

Same with Tiedermann. I can't see front offices offering a massive return for a guy with his injury history.

 

 

I didn't like the Jays Moreno trade at the time, as I felt they didn't quite get fair value for such a highly rated prospect.

 

I think it came down to three things. First, lack of dance partners - the market for a young catcher wasn't as robust as in past years, which left the Jays with only a few places that made sense for Moreno. Two, projections of Varsho were fairly bullish (Zips, Steamer had him at 3 - 3.5 WAR) which compared to Moreno had a higher certainty (i.e. you'll take a lower ceiling for higher floor). Three, the trade was somewhat rushed as the Jays couldn't break camp with Jansen/Kirk/Moreno and they needed to plug a hole in the outfield to fit their budget.

 

I don't think the trade was egregious, but I agree that they would have got way more value if they were dealing a 1st overall prospect that was say a pitcher or a shortstop, and if they had the luxury of patience where the market would come to them.

[max silver]

Kirk's homerun rate, like everyone else's on the team has collapsed since 2021. 8 in 165 at bats in 2021, 8 in 373 in 2023.

 

First half of 2022 Kirk hit 11 home runs in 267 AB, so his power outage started second half of last season.

[max silver]

I didn't like the Jays Moreno trade at the time, as I felt they didn't quite get fair value for such a highly rated prospect.

 

I think it came down to three things. First, lack of dance partners - the market for a young catcher wasn't as robust as in past years, which left the Jays with only a few places that made sense for Moreno. Two, projections of Varsho were fairly bullish (Zips, Steamer had him at 3 - 3.5 WAR) which compared to Moreno had a higher certainty (i.e. you'll take a lower ceiling for higher floor). Three, the trade was somewhat rushed as the Jays couldn't break camp with Jansen/Kirk/Moreno and they needed to plug a hole in the outfield to fit their budget.

 

I don't think the trade was egregious, but I agree that they would have got way more value if they were dealing a 1st overall prospect that was say a pitcher or a shortstop, and if they had the luxury of patience where the market would come to them.

 

Varsho already has a 5 win season under his belt by BWAR (just under by FWAR), do you really think Moreno has a higher ceiling than this? That seems like a more optimistic view of Moreno's realistic ceiling in my view, and that's contingent upon his recent power surge being something that he can repeat.

[Laika]

Varsho already has a 5 win season under his belt by BWAR (just under by FWAR), do you really think Moreno has a higher ceiling than this? That seems like a more optimistic view of Moreno's realistic ceiling in my view, and that's contingent upon his recent power surge being something that he can repeat.

 

I could see Moreno topping that in his peak years

 

he needs to learn how to run the bases. and it would take some random variation in terms of defense metrics

[Olerud363]

Isn't this exactly how probabilities work? They know there's a chance Castillo is s*** on Saturday night, they know there's a chance Romano performed well against the Yankees, etc. When you added all those up - the Jays had a great chance of securing a playoff spot, and that's exactly what happened.

 

Jays had a great chance of securing a playoff spot (like almost 99%) and it meant everything almost literally had to go wrong for them not to make it. The expected outcome would have been they clinched without pressure Thursday or Friday.

 

I believe there were 19 Toronto/Houston/Seattle/Texas games left as of last Monday and I think 16 of them went the wrong way for Toronto. That was still really improbable. It would have taken 1 more to get Toronto out of the playoffs. They missed by 1 game. Another loss for Toronto, another win for Seattle and they don't make it.

 

It get's complicated by everything really had to go wrong. Houston had to win 2/3 against Mariners (because Toronto had the tie breaker over Houston), Texas had to win 2/3 over Anaheim, but not 3/3 (because one of the scenarios where Toronto didn't make it involved a Houston/Texas/Toronto tie)

 

I know there were some harsh words exchanged but things were actually going bizarrely wrong and Toronto ended up a few hours from being eliminated but were saved by the bad Castillo start. lol. All that and now potentially 6 and a half hours from being eliminated anyway. Survived 72 extra hours.

[BatFlip]

Varsho already has a 5 win season under his belt by BWAR (just under by FWAR), do you really think Moreno has a higher ceiling than this? That seems like a more optimistic view of Moreno's realistic ceiling in my view, and that's contingent upon his recent power surge being something that he can repeat.

 

It's a fair point. I think as a first overall prospect, Moreno's ceiling at the time (and now) is a consistent multi-year all-star catcher.

 

It's still very possible that Varsho could have a .750 ops in center next year and put up 5 WAR again, so point taken.

[max silver]

It's a fair point. I think as a first overall prospect, Moreno's ceiling at the time (and now) is a consistent multi-year all-star catcher.

 

It's still very possible that Varsho could have a .750 ops in center next year and put up 5 WAR again, so point taken.

 

Moreno was a fine prospect, but I feel that people get a little hung up on the number 1 prospect rating. He just wasn't in the same class as other recent top prospects, as he's a step below the truly elite prospects the likes of Corbin Carroll, Adley Rutschman etc.

 

I hope Varsho can end up being a little more consistent at the plate. He endured a really bad slump this season in July, but towards the end of the month/early August re-employed a toe tap at the plate and his results took off after that.

[Tim Cooke]

But do front offices really see it that way just because the prospect rankings do? Moreno was the 1st overall on lists before he graduated because of days on roster, however Jays return was nothing you would expect from a 1st overall prospect.

 

And I say that as someone who actually liked the trade. I did not expect to get elite value for a guy who missed significant time and had significant power loss because of a thumb injury.

 

Same with Tiedermann. I can't see front offices offering a massive return for a guy with his injury history.

 

This would never happen for a number of reasons but how would this look as a theoretical trade?

 

- Orioles get Tiedermann

 

- Blue Jays get Connor Norby (MLB ready 2B with pop) and Anthony Santander (final year of Arb - free agent after 2024)

 

Offense is helped a lot with the void at 2B being filled in. Santander brings pop that is sorely needed. Orioles get valuable lefty starter who benefits from the wall.