General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[BTS]

I'm meeting up with Brownie for beers after Christmas! He's buying!

 

That’s beautiful TBH

[BatFlip]

That’s beautiful TBH

 

It’s a Christmas Miracle!

[Brownie19]

That’s beautiful TBH

 

Yeah that isn't happening.

[L54]

Yeah that isn't happening.

 

That’s unfortunate, this had potential imo

[Brownie19]

That’s unfortunate, this had potential imo

 

I'd rather stab myself in the face with a fork.

[Stangstag]

Yeah that isn't happening.

 

Loll dkm

[Spanky99]

Max argues in good faith and is actually rational & respectful. Have no issue with him.

 

Brownie comes across as an arrogant, disrespectful, and know-it-all. But I've been warming up to him.

 

Would love to see you make a post suggesting to the mods about some other posters on here who pretty much are always in troll territory and throwing insults around frequently. Spanky for one, gets away with a lot. But he's one of your pals who always agrees with you, so you won't bring his name ever up.

 

To suggest I'm a troll on this board is quite low of you. I have posted on this board for many years, since the original BJMB on the Jays site and have been a respectful member and have hardly ever been banned during my years here. Kind of disappointed in you Term for suggesting that.

 

Again, calling out my name... lets play mate.

[jaysblue]

Again, calling out my name... lets play mate.

 

You get away with a lot on this board in comparison to other members is what I was saying. That's the truth.

[jaysblue]

It’s a Christmas Miracle!

 

It would have been a Festivus Miracle!

[Spanky99]

You get away with a lot on this board in comparison to other members is what I was saying. That's the truth.

 

K.....

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

Chat GPT will cheer everyone up!

 

ChatGPT tell me a joke about Ross Atkins, Mark Shapiro and Alex Anthopolous:

 

"Ross Atkins, Mark Shapiro, and Alex Anthopoulos walk into a bar.

 

The bartender asks, "What’ll it be, gentlemen?"

 

Anthopoulos orders a top-shelf whiskey, Shapiro orders a steady, reliable lager, and Atkins spends 20 minutes explaining why they need a collaborative process to decide on a drink.

 

By the time they agree, the bar’s closed."

[jaysblue]

Ross Atkins is the guy who goes to a steakhouse and likely just orders a salad.

 

AA goes big and orders the Porterhouse and Shapiro plays its conservative with a filet mignon.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

Chat GPT:

 

Ross Atkins turning his wife down might go something like this:

 

His wife says, "Hey, can we watch a movie tonight?"

 

Ross, with a thoughtful expression, replies, "I’m going to have to evaluate the long-term value of that offer... Let me circle back with you after I analyze our options."

 

She sighs, "I just asked if you wanted to watch a movie!"

 

Ross responds, "Exactly. It’s all about finding the right fit for the evening."

[Omar]

That’s unfortunate, this had potential imo

 

How I picture Jaysblue and Brownie19 meeting....

 

[L54]

I'd rather stab myself in the face with a fork.

 

Haha well that’s one way to look at it

[BigCecil]

The Jays turned a roster full of promise into......

 

CATHAL KELLY

Published Yesterday

 

If you’re trying to figure out how to wring a few more bucks out of your boss, I have an idea – the Toronto Blue Jays.

Maybe drop by her office before heading out on a Friday afternoon and mention in passing that the Blue Jays are looking for a whatever-it-is-you-do-for-a-living. That is how you become the first associate in the firm’s history to make $35-million a year.

 

Using the Jays as a stalking horse sounds unethical, but it can’t be because everyone in baseball does it. Shohei Ohtani did it last year. Juan Soto did it a couple of weeks ago. Corbin Burnes did it this weekend.

 

For weeks, the baseball rumour mill was filled with stories that Burnes – a 2021 Cy Young winner – was close to choosing Toronto.

Burnes grew up in Bakersfield, Calif., has a house in Scottsdale, Ariz., and was looking to join a contender. I’m sure he was dying to join the last-place Blue Jays, who can’t even sign their current stars, never mind new ones, and are just a hop, a skip and a five-hour flight from home.

Burnes picked Arizona. The Diamondbacks reportedly offered less money (six years, US$210-million), but with Canadian taxes, it ends up being more.

It’s the most Arizona has ever paid anyone. It plays in what’s becoming the toughest division in baseball. This was not a value proposition.

But with the Jays standing on a street corner waving around a novelty cheque, Arizona didn’t have much choice. Whatever percentage Burnes pays his agent, he should cut Jays GM Ross Atkins in for a little taste as well.Burnes was the last difference-making free-agent on the board, and this feels like the end.

The end of the off-season, certainly.

 

Having spent so much time begging Soto, and then begging Burnes, the Jays leadership can now start begging Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. Once that blows up on them, they can shuffle over on their knees to Bo Bichette. Eventually, they’ll be begging Edward Rogers.

 

As currently constituted, the Jays have zero chance in the American League East. New York stayed about the same, Boston got a lot better, the Orioles are desperate and Tampa is seldom bad two years in a row. If it were possible for Toronto to finish sixth, that’s where I’d put my money.

 

If it’s the end of a competitive moment, it’s also the end of an era. That era was one in which the Blue Jays convinced themselves they really mattered by saying it out loud over and over again.

 

The foundation was there, but the Jays never managed to get it set. Good teams sign their young stars before they have convinced themselves they’re worth more than whatever you’re offering. It’s called player development. The Jays never shut up about how great theirs is. But their two biggest names have already rendered their verdict on the club – they would rather leave. Throw the mismanagement of starter Alek Manoah onto this pile.

 

 

Having not spent money underpinning their structure, the Jays also neglected to hire the right contractors to finish the rest of the house. How many of the free agents signed in recent years have turned out? Hyun-Jin Ryu – bust. George Springer – bust. Justin Turner – bust. Marcus Semien – bust (because they got him and then let him go).

The only big free-agent signing that’s an overall win is Kevin Gausman. Every year that guy looks a little closer to popping his lid whenever he talks about the state of the organization. Gausman knows he got sold a bridge to nowhere.

 

The Jays would like people to believe this is about money and taxes. That they’re not to blame and subsidized health care is.

It isn’t and they are. You can win in a backwater. Tampa does it. Arlington does it. Cleveland does it. Milwaukee has been doing it for a few years.

You think any pro athlete grows up dreaming about living in Milwaukee? Do you think the Brewers have ever swaggered into a pitch meeting, ever?

Milwaukee can’t be big, so it has to be smart.

Toronto failed at being big, and it wasn’t smart to begin with. It should have been obvious how this would end.

 

The Jays inherited a roster full of promise at a time when any team with two pitchers and a DH can make the post-season. They turned that into no playoff victories. But, hey, the seats right behind home plate are a couple of inches wider now. I guess that’s a win.

The best thing about everything being in a state of imminent collapse is that there’s no rush to start rebuilding. It’s going to take the rest of the year at least to clear off the debris.

 

Whoever is tasked with cleaning up, the first thing they will need to do is resist the urge to bang on about “a team for a whole country.” It makes about as much sense as the Atlanta Braves crowing about being “a team for a whole state.”

 

If you squint, it’s possible to convince yourself that Toronto is a big deal in global terms. It is not a big deal in baseball terms. Several prominent baseball players just told us that.

In 10 years, that’s the greatest service that Atkins and team president Mark Shapiro have done for their temporary home. When they arrived, we were beginning to think that we were a hot number. That everybody wanted in on this.

 

As they prepare to leave, Toronto is reminded of its place. This city is best suited to the role of scrappy up-and-comer. It’s taken the professional failure of a couple of not-so-smooth operators from abroad to remind us of that.

[leaffie]

Most critical thing I have ever seen written about the Jays, and exactly right on every point.

[BTS]

The Jays turned a roster full of promise into......

 

CATHAL KELLY

Published Yesterday

 

If you’re trying to figure out how to wring a few more bucks out of your boss, I have an idea – the Toronto Blue Jays.

Maybe drop by her office before heading out on a Friday afternoon and mention in passing that the Blue Jays are looking for a whatever-it-is-you-do-for-a-living. That is how you become the first associate in the firm’s history to make $35-million a year.

 

Using the Jays as a stalking horse sounds unethical, but it can’t be because everyone in baseball does it. Shohei Ohtani did it last year. Juan Soto did it a couple of weeks ago. Corbin Burnes did it this weekend.

 

For weeks, the baseball rumour mill was filled with stories that Burnes – a 2021 Cy Young winner – was close to choosing Toronto.

Burnes grew up in Bakersfield, Calif., has a house in Scottsdale, Ariz., and was looking to join a contender. I’m sure he was dying to join the last-place Blue Jays, who can’t even sign their current stars, never mind new ones, and are just a hop, a skip and a five-hour flight from home.

Burnes picked Arizona. The Diamondbacks reportedly offered less money (six years, US$210-million), but with Canadian taxes, it ends up being more.

It’s the most Arizona has ever paid anyone. It plays in what’s becoming the toughest division in baseball. This was not a value proposition.

But with the Jays standing on a street corner waving around a novelty cheque, Arizona didn’t have much choice. Whatever percentage Burnes pays his agent, he should cut Jays GM Ross Atkins in for a little taste as well.Burnes was the last difference-making free-agent on the board, and this feels like the end.

The end of the off-season, certainly.

 

Having spent so much time begging Soto, and then begging Burnes, the Jays leadership can now start begging Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. Once that blows up on them, they can shuffle over on their knees to Bo Bichette. Eventually, they’ll be begging Edward Rogers.

 

As currently constituted, the Jays have zero chance in the American League East. New York stayed about the same, Boston got a lot better, the Orioles are desperate and Tampa is seldom bad two years in a row. If it were possible for Toronto to finish sixth, that’s where I’d put my money.

 

If it’s the end of a competitive moment, it’s also the end of an era. That era was one in which the Blue Jays convinced themselves they really mattered by saying it out loud over and over again.

 

The foundation was there, but the Jays never managed to get it set. Good teams sign their young stars before they have convinced themselves they’re worth more than whatever you’re offering. It’s called player development. The Jays never shut up about how great theirs is. But their two biggest names have already rendered their verdict on the club – they would rather leave. Throw the mismanagement of starter Alek Manoah onto this pile.

 

 

Having not spent money underpinning their structure, the Jays also neglected to hire the right contractors to finish the rest of the house. How many of the free agents signed in recent years have turned out? Hyun-Jin Ryu – bust. George Springer – bust. Justin Turner – bust. Marcus Semien – bust (because they got him and then let him go).

The only big free-agent signing that’s an overall win is Kevin Gausman. Every year that guy looks a little closer to popping his lid whenever he talks about the state of the organization. Gausman knows he got sold a bridge to nowhere.

 

The Jays would like people to believe this is about money and taxes. That they’re not to blame and subsidized health care is.

It isn’t and they are. You can win in a backwater. Tampa does it. Arlington does it. Cleveland does it. Milwaukee has been doing it for a few years.

You think any pro athlete grows up dreaming about living in Milwaukee? Do you think the Brewers have ever swaggered into a pitch meeting, ever?

Milwaukee can’t be big, so it has to be smart.

Toronto failed at being big, and it wasn’t smart to begin with. It should have been obvious how this would end.

 

The Jays inherited a roster full of promise at a time when any team with two pitchers and a DH can make the post-season. They turned that into no playoff victories. But, hey, the seats right behind home plate are a couple of inches wider now. I guess that’s a win.

The best thing about everything being in a state of imminent collapse is that there’s no rush to start rebuilding. It’s going to take the rest of the year at least to clear off the debris.

 

Whoever is tasked with cleaning up, the first thing they will need to do is resist the urge to bang on about “a team for a whole country.” It makes about as much sense as the Atlanta Braves crowing about being “a team for a whole state.”

 

If you squint, it’s possible to convince yourself that Toronto is a big deal in global terms. It is not a big deal in baseball terms. Several prominent baseball players just told us that.

In 10 years, that’s the greatest service that Atkins and team president Mark Shapiro have done for their temporary home. When they arrived, we were beginning to think that we were a hot number. That everybody wanted in on this.

 

As they prepare to leave, Toronto is reminded of its place. This city is best suited to the role of scrappy up-and-comer. It’s taken the professional failure of a couple of not-so-smooth operators from abroad to remind us of that.

 

I take issue with a lot of what's written here.

- Complaining about an inability to lock up young stars when two of the 3 names mentioned are Bichette and Monoah. Sure, having Vlad at 300M would be nice, but we'd probably also be looking at a 300M boat anchor for Bo and 100+ for Manoah.

- Calling the Semien FA signing a bust is completely ridiculous.

- If Justin Turner is considered a bust big FA signing, why is Chris Bassitt not considered a win? Or Brandon Belt? Or Isaiah-Kiner Falefa? Yusei Kikuchi?

- Current management didn't inherit a "roster full of promise". They inherited an old team with a closed contention window and Vlad.

- The last three paragraphs are kind of just nonsense.

 

I feel like a lot of the Toronto media know that things haven't worked out here over the last couple of years, but don't know enough about baseball to actually understand the reasons why.

 

The biggest issue isn't that they "tried and failed to be big" (whatever that means). It's that they completely failed at development. Like, worst in class level ineptitude at producing young MLB players.

[leaffie]

. It's that they completely failed at development. Like, worst in class level ineptitude at producing young MLB players.

 

And everyone on this board said the same thing. Why is it the two supposed geniuses from Cleveland didnt know it, and Rogers allowed it to continue for so long.

[burlingtonbandit]

That writer just loves to stir the pot and has always been super negative about everything, he’s an idiot or he is just creating a character.

 

Lots of nonsense but I did find the part about the new FO claiming “this is an entire country” crap funny. Everyone knows Toronto is the only team in Canada so we can drop the annoying BS about playing for the country and blah blah.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Mismanagement of Alec Manoah?

 

Lol

[BTS]

. It's that they completely failed at development. Like, worst in class level ineptitude at producing young MLB players.

 

"And everyone on this board said the same thing. Why is it the two supposed geniuses from Cleveland didnt know it, and Rogers allowed it to continue for so long."

 

Well, when did it become clear that it was a problem? At the end of 2022:

 

- Kirk 4.3 fWAR age-23 season

- Jansen 2.7 fWAR age-27 season

- Espinal plucked from the trash heap and turned into a 2.4 fWAR player at 27

- Moreno knocking on the majors at 2022 and looking like a future star

- Manoah one of the best pitchers in baseball at 24

 

Cracks didn't really show until 2023, and then things fell apart in 2024.

 

I'm sure Shapiro and Atkins see the problem (though they won't admit) it, but don't know what to do about it. Which is why Atkins should have been fired already and Shapiro should now be fired for continuing to stand by him. But Rogers is really only like 3 months late in acting here.

[Eat My Shatkins]

There is plenty of things wrong with the ajays front office, and they've made many mistakes, but not signing this "core" to massive extensions isn't one of them.

 

The biggest whiff so far is failing to draft and develop enough talent.

[L54]

The largest problem when it came to extending Bo and Vlad was that they didn’t need the security

[max silver]

The largest problem when it came to extending Bo and Vlad was that they didn’t need the security

 

Yeah that's a key point here. Each of them could afford to demand a franchise level player extension or simply wait until free agency. Neither of them were likely to sign any kind of team friendly extension

[Carlos Danger]

Mismanagement of Alec Manoah?

 

Lol

 

They rushed him back too soon when he wasn’t showing results in the minors and he got hammered in MLB. The FO had no other viable options.

 

Then or before the debacle about conditioning, and a big internal blow up about him not reporting to Buffalo etc.

 

Not all managements fault, but a **** show regardless.

[max silver]

I take issue with a lot of what's written here.

- Complaining about an inability to lock up young stars when two of the 3 names mentioned are Bichette and Monoah. Sure, having Vlad at 300M would be nice, but we'd probably also be looking at a 300M boat anchor for Bo and 100+ for Manoah.

- Calling the Semien FA signing a bust is completely ridiculous.

- If Justin Turner is considered a bust big FA signing, why is Chris Bassitt not considered a win? Or Brandon Belt? Or Isaiah-Kiner Falefa? Yusei Kikuchi?

- Current management didn't inherit a "roster full of promise". They inherited an old team with a closed contention window and Vlad.

- The last three paragraphs are kind of just nonsense.

 

I feel like a lot of the Toronto media know that things haven't worked out here over the last couple of years, but don't know enough about baseball to actually understand the reasons why.

 

The biggest issue isn't that they "tried and failed to be big" (whatever that means). It's that they completely failed at development. Like, worst in class level ineptitude at producing young MLB players.

 

That's my biggest issue with articles like this in that they tend to be long on emotion and short on actual facts. This author is nothing more than a rage peddler and has been holding a grudge against the current front office from day 1 so it's no surprise that he would attempt to twist the facts into a bunch of fan fiction level narratives instead of objectively utilizing the truth to create a balanced article.

[max silver]

They rushed him back too soon when he wasn’t showing results in the minors and he got hammered in MLB. The FO had no other viable options.

 

Then or before the debacle about conditioning, and a big internal blow up about him not reporting to Buffalo etc.

 

Not all managements fault, but a **** show regardless.

 

The alternative was running a bunch of bullpen games or plucking a pitcher off of the scrap heap so it was a pick your poison type of scenario.

[Carlos Danger]

Yeah that's a key point here. Each of them could afford to demand a franchise level player extension or simply wait until free agency. Neither of them were likely to sign any kind of team friendly extension

 

I have literally been shouting that from the rooftops on this board for years! Bo, Vlad, Biggio, all rich kids. None of them were going to sign for security of generational wealth like Acuna a poor kid from the island.

 

We will have the same issue with Will Wagner if he gets really good.

[Carlos Danger]

The alternative was running a bunch of bullpen games or plucking a pitcher off of the scrap heap so it was a pick your poison type of scenario.

 

Correct, due to lack of organizational pitching depth, which Carlos was on his soap box about every spring training