General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[jaysblue]

It's a scary thought how bad the Blue Jays catching situation would be if Kirk were to suffer an injury and miss significant time.

 

Yeah exactly. I don't think it would be a bad idea to bring in a solid vet for $4 to $5 million if available. Doesn't hurt.

 

A couple of guys likely could be had on cheap one-year deals such as Travis d'Arnaud, Max Stassi, Yasmani Grandal, Austin Barnes, or Austin Hedges.

[jaysblue]

What would you have done differently? Extend Jansen? Trade Jansen for MUCH less and have no current CFer?

 

We've had good catching depth for the past 10 years (since signing Martin). Depth at different positions is going to go in cycles and we do have Kirk for another couple of years.

 

The leader of the Defend Atkins at All Costs Club just entered the chat!

[Brownie19]

The leader of the Defend Atkins at All Costs Club just entered the chat!

 

f*** off ****.

[jaysblue]

Is Yasmani Grandal going to fix that problem?

 

Grandal is coming off a 2 WAR season in just 72 games and 243 plate appearances, so yes he would.

 

He has experience handling a veteran pitching staff during his days with the Dodgers & Brewers and is also a switch hitter. Sign him to start 40% of the games behind the plate, which helps keep Kirk fresh and in a worst case scenario if Kirk gets injured, at least Grandal can handle an everyday role for an extended period if need be. Signing Grandal to $4 or $5 million would actually be great value and a cheap way at adding extra WAR.

[jaysblue]

f*** off ****.

 

Mods.

[max silver]

Yeah exactly. I don't think it would be a bad idea to bring in a solid vet for $4 to $5 million if available. Doesn't hurt.

 

A couple of guys likely could be had on cheap one-year deals such as Travis d'Arnaud, Max Stassi, Yasmani Grandal, Austin Barnes, or Austin Hedges.

 

Given the lousy year Jansen produced offensively and behind the plate I think you could add his name to the list as well.

[jaysblue]

Given the lousy year Jansen produced offensively and behind the plate I think you could add his name to the list as well.

 

Sure I would bring Jansen back as well if he came back on a cheap one-year deal. Mentioned his name a while ago as well, but questions on if the Jays had enough money seemed to be an issue in the discussion.

[Orgfiller]

It's a scary thought how bad the Blue Jays catching situation would be if Kirk were to suffer an injury and miss significant time.

 

This is pretty much true for most teams in the league that aren’t the Braves and the Kirk-Jansen era Blue Jays. And even in that era the question was usually “what if Kirk also got injured” since Jansen was a lock to miss half the season or more every year.

[Terminator]

Yeah exactly. I don't think it would be a bad idea to bring in a solid vet for $4 to $5 million if available. Doesn't hurt.

 

A couple of guys likely could be had on cheap one-year deals such as Travis d'Arnaud, Max Stassi, Yasmani Grandal, Austin Barnes, or Austin Hedges.

 

I would be down for something like that. Would depend on what our bullpen is looking like. If Zach Pop is penciled into the 7th inning role then I say spend the money on the pen. If we are feeling good about the pen then we could bring in a decent vet.

 

I think the pen is probably going to be looking a little rough though with so many holes to fill. I agree the catching depth needs addressed so I wouldn't mind dumpster diving even lower than the guys you suggest. Could serial masturbator Reese McGuire be had for a million bucks? Then Hineyman becomes the third C in Buffalo? Something like that might be a good way to split the difference.

[Terminator]

This is pretty much true for most teams in the league that aren’t the Braves and the Kirk-Jansen era Blue Jays. And even in that era the question was usually “what if Kirk also got injured” since Jansen was a lock to miss half the season or more every year.

 

The entire season hinges on that meatball staying healthy

[jaysblue]

I would be down for something like that. Would depend on what our bullpen is looking like. If Zach Pop is penciled into the 7th inning role then I say spend the money on the pen. If we are feeling good about the pen then we could bring in a decent vet.

 

I think the pen is probably going to be looking a little rough though with so many holes to fill. I agree the catching depth needs addressed so I wouldn't mind dumpster diving even lower than the guys you suggest. Could serial masturbator Reese McGuire be had for a million bucks? Then Hineyman becomes the third C in Buffalo? Something like that might be a good way to split the difference.

 

Hopefully the Jays promotional team doesn't do a Reese McGuire bobblehead giveaway haha.

 

Yeah understandable. If there is $4 to $5M to play with, Grandal would be a nice get especially if he can put up 2 WAR again.

 

Guys like McGuire or even Stassi or Hedge likely could be had for around a million bucks.

[Brownie19]

Mods.

 

Man - go f*** yourself. I asked legitimate questions and made a valid point to someone who just throws out mindless opinions like "brutal asset management". If you can attack me for that, then be prepared to take it back.

[BatFlip]

I would be down for something like that. Would depend on what our bullpen is looking like. If Zach Pop is penciled into the 7th inning role then I say spend the money on the pen. If we are feeling good about the pen then we could bring in a decent vet.

 

I think the pen is probably going to be looking a little rough though with so many holes to fill. I agree the catching depth needs addressed so I wouldn't mind dumpster diving even lower than the guys you suggest. Could serial masturbator Reese McGuire be had for a million bucks? Then Hineyman becomes the third C in Buffalo? Something like that might be a good way to split the difference.

 

don't call it a cumback

[BatFlip]

Mods.

 

In some cultures that's actually a term of endearment

[L54]

Grandal is coming off a 2 WAR season in just 72 games and 243 plate appearances, so yes he would.

 

He has experience handling a veteran pitching staff during his days with the Dodgers & Brewers and is also a switch hitter. Sign him to start 40% of the games behind the plate, which helps keep Kirk fresh and in a worst case scenario if Kirk gets injured, at least Grandal can handle an everyday role for an extended period if need be. Signing Grandal to $4 or $5 million would actually be great value and a cheap way at adding extra WAR.

 

And he was worth -0.5 WAR over the last 700 AB’s prior to 2024

 

So no it’s not a guarantee he will be a cheap way at adding extra WAR at all

[Brownie19]

And he was worth -0.5 WAR over the last 700 AB’s prior to 2024

 

So no it’s not a guarantee he will be a cheap way at adding extra WAR at all

 

100% Unless you can get him back on that beautiful juice again! There is absolutely no guarantee with any of these old catchers. I don't have an issue with throwing $1M - $2M at one and hoping for the best.

[BigCecil]

Been enjoying watching the playoffs and thinking a lot about our Jays for 25 and beyond.

 

In ’23 there was a lot of push OTB to extend Bo and visceral anger towards Vlad. “Blame the players for underperforming – not the FO” theme etc Vlad took the brunt of it in a 1.3 WAR season.

 

In ’24 the CW has shifted to a heightened sense we need to “build around” an extended Vlad at almost any cost. His 2 elite seasons have been pitched the norm, and the future, by his Agent and others.

 

One could argue if you were going to extend either or both of them, Vlad should have been locked up in ’23 and Bo now – if the ownership truly always believed in their value long term.

 

I realize in the 3rd WC era the playoffs are easier to make and it opens the door for Cinderella teams like DET or ARI to have a banger year and make playoff waves. Its tantalizing.

 

Our inability to draft and develop well the last decade has forced us Jays fans into a lot of crazy talk. For me, with the current state of the team and the farm I’m not seduced by a wildcard in ’25. Its fools gold. I see the arguments OTB we are much better than the '24 record and players will bounce back or be as good or better - and we will check book baseball our way into plugging many holes. I can squint hard and see that take with the 3rd WC. Rogers/FO are leaning into it one more time. I just don't see it.

 

As one fan, I would have rather we dealt Vlad at the 24 deadline for max value than overpay to keep him now and said so then. I’ve got some insight on the extensive asks. There is no hometown J-Ram ish deal discount on the table at this point. He is relatively young but the cost for him with his body type, position, seasonal inconsistency IMO opinion aren’t worth what he now wants.

 

Why? Even though we are a luxury tax payroll big market team, this decision will impact future payroll roster construction decisions dramatically for a decade or more. Its not an infinite well of money. Big dead AAV money like Springer’s deal matters especially if you don't draft and develop well. I don’t care for the Statkins FO, but I agree with Mark’s reluctance to call Vlad a generational talent yet. He might become one - his EVs and xwOBAs have always been elite, but I don’t want Rogers to make an investment he won't overperform.

 

Our biggest issue is the “waves” Shapiro promised in 2017 didn’t come. And they won’t for the foreseeable future unless we get inordinately lucky. Its reduced our options and boxed us into these “Vlad or bust” kind of pyrrhic arguments.

[Masterbather]

Been enjoying watching the playoffs and thinking a lot about our Jays for 25 and beyond.

 

In ’23 there was a lot of push OTB to extend Bo and visceral anger towards Vlad. “Blame the players for underperforming – not the FO” theme etc Vlad took the brunt of it in a 1.3 WAR season.

 

In ’24 the CW has shifted to a heightened sense we need to “build around” an extended Vlad at almost any cost. His 2 elite seasons have been pitched the norm, and the future, by his Agent and others.

 

One could argue if you were going to extend either or both of them, Vlad should have been locked up in ’23 and Bo now – if the ownership truly always believed in their value long term.

 

I realize in the 3rd WC era the playoffs are easier to make and it opens the door for Cinderella teams like DET or ARI to have a banger year and make playoff waves. Its tantalizing.

 

Our inability to draft and develop well the last decade has forced us Jays fans into a lot of crazy talk. For me, with the current state of the team and the farm I’m not seduced by a wildcard in ’25. Its fools gold. I see the arguments OTB we are much better than the '24 record and players will bounce back or be as good or better - and we will check book baseball our way into plugging many holes. I can squint hard and see that take with the 3rd WC. Rogers/FO are leaning into it one more time. I just don't see it.

 

As one fan, I would have rather we dealt Vlad at the 24 deadline for max value than overpay to keep him now and said so then. I’ve got some insight on the extensive asks. There is no hometown J-Ram ish deal discount on the table at this point. He is relatively young but the cost for him with his body type, position, seasonal inconsistency IMO opinion aren’t worth what he now wants.

 

Why? Even though we are a luxury tax payroll big market team, this decision will impact future payroll roster construction decisions dramatically for a decade or more. Its not an infinite well of money. Big dead AAV money like Springer’s deal matters especially if you don't draft and develop well. I don’t care for the Statkins FO, but I agree with Mark’s reluctance to call Vlad a generational talent yet. He might become one - his EVs and xwOBAs have always been elite, but I don’t want Rogers to make an investment he won't overperform.

 

Our biggest issue is the “waves” Shapiro promised in 2017 didn’t come. And they won’t for the foreseeable future unless we get inordinately lucky. Its reduced our options and boxed us into these “Vlad or bust” kind of pyrrhic arguments.

I've always favoured trading Vlad and still do. I think they need a rebuild. But they won't. They're trying to save their jobs.

[Jimcanuck]

Jays should trade for Bo Naylor, extend him, then use that to get Josh here as a free agent after 2025

 

Build around a couple of good ol' Canadian boys!

[jaysblue]

Jays should trade for Bo Naylor, extend him, then use that to get Josh here as a free agent after 2025

 

Build around a couple of good ol' Canadian boys!

 

Sign Tyler O'Neill as well, Nick Pivetta and bring Jason Bay & Erik Bedard out of retirement!

[max silver]

Been enjoying watching the playoffs and thinking a lot about our Jays for 25 and beyond.

 

In ’23 there was a lot of push OTB to extend Bo and visceral anger towards Vlad. “Blame the players for underperforming – not the FO” theme etc Vlad took the brunt of it in a 1.3 WAR season.

 

In ’24 the CW has shifted to a heightened sense we need to “build around” an extended Vlad at almost any cost. His 2 elite seasons have been pitched the norm, and the future, by his Agent and others.

 

One could argue if you were going to extend either or both of them, Vlad should have been locked up in ’23 and Bo now – if the ownership truly always believed in their value long term.

 

I realize in the 3rd WC era the playoffs are easier to make and it opens the door for Cinderella teams like DET or ARI to have a banger year and make playoff waves. Its tantalizing.

 

Our inability to draft and develop well the last decade has forced us Jays fans into a lot of crazy talk. For me, with the current state of the team and the farm I’m not seduced by a wildcard in ’25. Its fools gold. I see the arguments OTB we are much better than the '24 record and players will bounce back or be as good or better - and we will check book baseball our way into plugging many holes. I can squint hard and see that take with the 3rd WC. Rogers/FO are leaning into it one more time. I just don't see it.

 

As one fan, I would have rather we dealt Vlad at the 24 deadline for max value than overpay to keep him now and said so then. I’ve got some insight on the extensive asks. There is no hometown J-Ram ish deal discount on the table at this point. He is relatively young but the cost for him with his body type, position, seasonal inconsistency IMO opinion aren’t worth what he now wants.

 

Why? Even though we are a luxury tax payroll big market team, this decision will impact future payroll roster construction decisions dramatically for a decade or more. Its not an infinite well of money. Big dead AAV money like Springer’s deal matters especially if you don't draft and develop well. I don’t care for the Statkins FO, but I agree with Mark’s reluctance to call Vlad a generational talent yet. He might become one - his EVs and xwOBAs have always been elite, but I don’t want Rogers to make an investment he won't overperform.

 

Our biggest issue is the “waves” Shapiro promised in 2017 didn’t come. And they won’t for the foreseeable future unless we get inordinately lucky. Its reduced our options and boxed us into these “Vlad or bust” kind of pyrrhic arguments.

 

I think it's time to get Vlad signed long term. I believe he finally proved he deserves this type of deal. I fully believe the best is yet to come for Vlad offensively. He just ripped of a 5 month stretch where he was the second best qualified hitter in the sport ahead of guys like Soto and Ohtani. He had a two month stretch where he even produced a higher overall wRC+ than Judge and reached offensive heights he didn't see even in 2021.

 

I don't think Vlad was ever going to sign a team friendly deal in the first place or it would have happened by now. We have literally no idea whatsoever what kind of deal Vlad has even been looking for to start with. This entire window was basically predicated on Vlad producing elite offensive seasons, and now that it appears as though he may be fixed/hitting his stride there is still time to build around the guy. Springer only has two more years remaining on his deal, so by the team a potential Vlad extension kicks in he will only be around for a single season at that point.

[Omar]

Been enjoying watching the playoffs and thinking a lot about our Jays for 25 and beyond.

 

In ’23 there was a lot of push OTB to extend Bo and visceral anger towards Vlad. “Blame the players for underperforming – not the FO” theme etc Vlad took the brunt of it in a 1.3 WAR season.

 

In ’24 the CW has shifted to a heightened sense we need to “build around” an extended Vlad at almost any cost. His 2 elite seasons have been pitched the norm, and the future, by his Agent and others.

 

One could argue if you were going to extend either or both of them, Vlad should have been locked up in ’23 and Bo now – if the ownership truly always believed in their value long term.

 

I realize in the 3rd WC era the playoffs are easier to make and it opens the door for Cinderella teams like DET or ARI to have a banger year and make playoff waves. Its tantalizing.

 

Our inability to draft and develop well the last decade has forced us Jays fans into a lot of crazy talk. For me, with the current state of the team and the farm I’m not seduced by a wildcard in ’25. Its fools gold. I see the arguments OTB we are much better than the '24 record and players will bounce back or be as good or better - and we will check book baseball our way into plugging many holes. I can squint hard and see that take with the 3rd WC. Rogers/FO are leaning into it one more time. I just don't see it.

 

As one fan, I would have rather we dealt Vlad at the 24 deadline for max value than overpay to keep him now and said so then. I’ve got some insight on the extensive asks. There is no hometown J-Ram ish deal discount on the table at this point. He is relatively young but the cost for him with his body type, position, seasonal inconsistency IMO opinion aren’t worth what he now wants.

 

Why? Even though we are a luxury tax payroll big market team, this decision will impact future payroll roster construction decisions dramatically for a decade or more. Its not an infinite well of money. Big dead AAV money like Springer’s deal matters especially if you don't draft and develop well. I don’t care for the Statkins FO, but I agree with Mark’s reluctance to call Vlad a generational talent yet. He might become one - his EVs and xwOBAs have always been elite, but I don’t want Rogers to make an investment he won't overperform.

 

Our biggest issue is the “waves” Shapiro promised in 2017 didn’t come. And they won’t for the foreseeable future unless we get inordinately lucky. Its reduced our options and boxed us into these “Vlad or bust” kind of pyrrhic arguments.

 

I sort of agree with your sentiment but we are literally in"Vlad or bust" territory. The carpet baggers from Cleveland have demonstrated that they can't draft/develop their way to "waves of talent" on a yearly basis. Sign Vladdy (yes it will be an overpay) and keep signing cheques for other players to play here. That's what this current Blue Jays regime has become.

[The Cats Ass]

Hopefully the Jays promotional team doesn't do a Reese McGuire bobblehead giveaway haha.

 

Yeah understandable. If there is $4 to $5M to play with, Grandal would be a nice get especially if he can put up 2 WAR again.

 

Guys like McGuire or even Stassi or Hedge likely could be had for around a million bucks.

 

What about a McGuire bobblehand giveaway?

[glory]

I sort of agree with your sentiment but we are literally in"Vlad or bust" territory. The carpet baggers from Cleveland have demonstrated that they can't draft/develop their way to "waves of talent" on a yearly basis. Sign Vladdy (yes it will be an overpay) and keep signing cheques for other players to play here. That's what this current Blue Jays regime has become.

 

Yeah I think the Jays have trapped themselves here. Losing Vlad for nothing (or for 50 cents on the dollar at the deadline) for a Hail Mary attempt for 2025 is completely illogical, and the farm system isn’t producing another star any time soon. At least when Shatkins fumbled 2017-18, there was a light at the end of the tunnel (Vlad/Bo). That light doesn’t exist today. They really can’t afford to lose Vlad at this point unless they want to have a boring rebuilding team that can’t get a top 10 pick again while trying to fill premium seats at a renovated stadium. I mean maybe Shatkins is looking forward to the next chapter where they can have a lineup of Horwitz, Roden, Kasevich, Wagner, Shreck, and whoever else they can find that will hit 10-12 home runs with a sub 20 K%, but that’s neither marketable to casuals or a recipe for an actual winning team.

 

Give Vlad $350m or whatever it is, and then try to buy your way to more impact talent. At least they have a surplus of what looks like potential average big league talent making the minimum that they could use to fill other holes. It would have been nice if the Jays were the type of org that could lose Vlad and Bo to free agency and not skip a beat, but they aren’t even close to that level of an organization.

[Spanky99]

Geez... I don't feel this team is that dire at the moment, lol... some of you guys need to get off the ledge.

[Laika]

Geez... I don't feel this team is that dire at the moment, lol... some of you guys need to get off the ledge.

 

Spanky

 

They have no good prospects

 

Barely any good young MLB players who will be around for a long time

 

They just won like 65 games

 

It's grim

[Spanky99]

Spanky

 

They have no good prospects

 

Barely any good young MLB players who will be around for a long time

 

They just won like 65 games

 

It's grim

 

K.....

[glory]

Spanky

 

They have no good prospects

 

Barely any good young MLB players who will be around for a long time

 

They just won like 65 games

 

It's grim

 

Even the big leaguers who might be high impact performers are not locked up beyond 2026. So even if 2025 ends up being successful and even if they extend Vlad, there’s still a question of how sustainable any sort of contention really is. It’s pretty bleak but a great off season might change our perspective (hopefully).

[L54]

Geez... I don't feel this team is that dire at the moment, lol... some of you guys need to get off the ledge.

 

Spanky this team sucks ass what are you talking about

[L54]

Yankees will re sign Soto

 

Orioles are a 90 win team for the next 5 years

 

Red Sox have like 5 top 100 prospects who are all likely to debut next year

 

Rays lost their franchise player, added the best prospect in baseball and have Mclanahan, Springs and Rasmussen to start the season

 

Blue Jays have Alan Roden