General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[max silver]

No, he was saying that defense is overrated and to stack the lineup with Nick Castellanos/Lourdes Gurriel types.

 

Because he plays too much fantasy baseball and thinks that fantasy = life so defense doesn’t matter.

 

Oddly enough Gurriel ended up developing into a solid defender in left field. It's too bad for him that at the same time his bat was downgraded to just a shade above league average as well.

[Spanky99]

Rosie DiManno. She's the female version of Steve Simmonds.

 

From the Star right?

[Key22]

Shapiro said “If I felt there was a better alternative to run our baseball operations, I’d make that change.” (regarding Atkins)

 

People seem to like Kim Ng - although perhaps she would be better served replacing Atkins and Shapiro.

 

The righties would go nuts if they hired a woman or an Asian (so both in one would make them have an anaphylactic shock).

 

Anyway, she probably wouldn't make it any worse and being an Asian woman - she'll work twice as hard for half the pay. More money to sign Soto.

[Spanky99]

Shapiro said “If I felt there was a better alternative to run our baseball operations, I’d make that change.” (regarding Atkins)

 

People seem to like Kim Ng - although perhaps she would be better served replacing Atkins and Shapiro.

 

The righties would go nuts if they hired a woman or an Asian (so both in one would make them have an anaphylactic shock).

 

K....

[connorp]

No, he was saying that defense is overrated and to stack the lineup with Nick Castellanos/Lourdes Gurriel types.

 

Because he plays too much fantasy baseball and thinks that fantasy = life so defense doesn’t matter.

 

Yep. Two game changers there. Those are guys you’ll sign and your odds on the roulette wheel go up big.

[hanton]

Atkins speaking spanish. wtf that came out of no where

[Key22]

Shapiro noted injuries as being part of the reason they lost this year and I see people noting

 

"The Toronto Blue Jays ranked 24th in baseball in injuries with only $19 million cash total per days missed lol."

 

I get that but doesn't this depend a lot on WHO is injured - I mean to be fair the Jays lost their starting shortstop and 2nd best hitter for half the season and their closer for th whole season.

 

That's different from team X which loses 4 players for a whole year who are not impact players.

 

I think there needs to be a calculation based on something else like "expected WAR lost due to injuries" Losing one 6 WAR player for a season has more impact than a team that loses three 1 war players and five 0 war players. Oh wow, they lost 8 guys and the Jays only lost one but all 8 players actually have less impact on the team than the one Jay.

 

I mean if the Yankees suffered only 2 injuries like Judge and Soto out for the year and no other injuries would they have won the division? I think I get what Shapiro meant. Key injuries.

 

I know fans harp on not winning a playoff game but even that is a bit tough when we're talking best of three - the juggernaut that was Baltimore scored 1 run in two games against KC - Houston got swept by Detroit. Two teams that look to be vastly better than we are both got their ass handed to them.

 

I think the team really has to figure out if they are going to sign Vlad to that 10 year $350m contract. When Blair and Barker interviewed former GM Jeff Samson - he was dead against paying him even 7/$210m. I wonder why - Shapiro was luke warm calling him a generational talent - what are we maybe missing here?

[Spanky99]

Atkins speaking spanish. wtf that came out of no where

 

He speaks french too.

[Omar]

Soto might be 4 times what Springer got in total value. It's a different stratosphere, one that doesn't involve significant revenue potential like Ohtani would have brought in (which was likely a major factor in Rogers wanting to do it). No one is denying that Rogers spends on players, but we are talking about the biggest contract in MLB history (once you factor Ohtani's deferrals), and competing directly with the Yankees and Mets. There is a reason the 4th CBT tier is unofficially called the Steve Cohen Tax. Outbidding Cohen for Springer who was in his 30's when signed vs a future HOF at age 25 is night and day.

 

Regardless, signing Bregman is likely not going to be cheap either. If Rogers greenlights signing him, then that would be a significant expenditure as well (one that I don't necessarily want, but could see happening).

 

This helps my arguement, not yours.

[Spanky99]

Shapiro noted injuries as being part of the reason they lost this year and I see people noting

 

"The Toronto Blue Jays ranked 24th in baseball in injuries with only $19 million cash total per days missed lol."

 

I get that but doesn't this depend a lot on WHO is injured - I mean to be fair the Jays lost their starting shortstop and 2nd best hitter for half the season and their closer for th whole season.

 

That's different from team X which loses 4 players for a whole year who are not impact players.

 

I think there needs to be a calculation based on something else like "expected WAR lost due to injuries" Losing one 6 WAR player for a season has more impact than a team that loses three 1 war players and five 0 war players. Oh wow, they lost 8 guys and the Jays only lost one but all 8 players actually have less impact on the team than the one Jay.

 

I mean if the Yankees suffered only 2 injuries like Judge and Soto out for the year and no other injuries would they have won the division? I think I get what Shapiro meant. Key injuries.

 

I know fans harp on not winning a playoff game but even that is a bit tough when we're talking best of three - the juggernaut that was Baltimore scored 1 run in two games against KC - Houston got swept by Detroit. Two teams that look to be vastly better than we are both got their ass handed to them.

 

I think the team really has to figure out if they are going to sign Vlad to that 10 year $350m contract. When Blair and Barker interviewed former GM Jeff Samson - he was dead against paying him even 7/$210m. I wonder why - Shapiro was luke warm calling him a generational talent - what are we maybe missing here?

 

Hallucinogens most likely. Shapiro was right in not calling him a generational talent. Nothing is missing.

[Omar]

Hallucinogens most likely. Shapiro was right in not calling him a generational talent. Nothing is missing.

 

Also why call him a generational talent before going into negotiations with him. After you pay him a boatload of money, then you can call him a generational talent. Skeletor ain't dumb.

[max silver]

Hallucinogens most likely. Shapiro was right in not calling him a generational talent. Nothing is missing.

 

I think Vlad has generational levels of talent, but it hasn't shown up in the results every season up to this point.

[Spanky99]

I think Vlad has generational levels of talent, but it hasn't shown up in the results every season up to this point.

 

I understand, but you don't heed that assumption, right?

[Spanky99]

Also why call him a generational talent before going into negotiations with him. After you pay him a boatload of money, then you can call him a generational talent. Skeletor ain't dumb.

 

Exactly.

[hanton]

He speaks french too.

 

not he just needs to speak baseball

[Spanky99]

not he just needs to speak baseball

 

True dat.

[glory]

This helps my arguement, not yours.

 

The Jays gave 6 years to a 31 year old FA when no other team in the league (including Cohen) was willing to do it. Soto is one of the best players in the game at age 25/26. Cohen is not going to stop at 6 years, or 12 years, or whatever it takes to get him. That's my point. To outbid someone who isn't afraid to destroy market norms is going to be very difficult. The Jays signing Bregman to a 7 year deal when no other team is willing to go above 5 or 6 seems like a more likely outcome. I hope I'm wrong on Soto and he ends up a Jay, but outbidding the Yankees and Mets (and probably Dodgers, knowing them) seems like a very unlikely situation.

[Spanky99]

The Jays gave 6 years to a 31 year old FA when no other team in the league (including Cohen) was willing to do it. Soto is one of the best players in the game at age 25/26. Cohen is not going to stop at 6 years, or 12 years, or whatever it takes to get him. That's my point. To outbid someone who isn't afraid to destroy market norms is going to be very difficult. The Jays signing Bregman to a 7 year deal when no other team is willing to go above 5 or 6 seems like a more likely outcome. I hope I'm wrong on Soto and he ends up a Jay, but outbidding the Yankees and Mets (and probably Dodgers, knowing them) seems like a very unlikely situation.

 

The truth is no-one knows. /T

[John_Havok]

He speaks french too.

 

I wonder why this surprises people...in his line of work being fluent in multiple languages is practically a necessity

[max silver]

The Jays gave 6 years to a 31 year old FA when no other team in the league (including Cohen) was willing to do it. Soto is one of the best players in the game at age 25/26. Cohen is not going to stop at 6 years, or 12 years, or whatever it takes to get him. That's my point. To outbid someone who isn't afraid to destroy market norms is going to be very difficult. The Jays signing Bregman to a 7 year deal when no other team is willing to go above 5 or 6 seems like a more likely outcome. I hope I'm wrong on Soto and he ends up a Jay, but outbidding the Yankees and Mets (and probably Dodgers, knowing them) seems like a very unlikely situation.

 

I think the offers for Soto are largely going to fall into the same general range as was the case with Ohtani. I fully expect that something other than money alone will end up being the key determining factor. The Jays don't exactly have a competitive situation to use as a selling point and I expect that would be a primary factor that may leave them having a hard time attracting quality free agents this offseason.

[Masterbather]

Shapiro does something I can respect. No need to kiss Vladdy's ass. I was shocked he had the balls to not cave to that.

 

Vlad's agent can pump his tires for him.

[Brownie19]

The Jays gave 6 years to a 31 year old FA when no other team in the league (including Cohen) was willing to do it. Soto is one of the best players in the game at age 25/26. Cohen is not going to stop at 6 years, or 12 years, or whatever it takes to get him. That's my point. To outbid someone who isn't afraid to destroy market norms is going to be very difficult. The Jays signing Bregman to a 7 year deal when no other team is willing to go above 5 or 6 seems like a more likely outcome. I hope I'm wrong on Soto and he ends up a Jay, but outbidding the Yankees and Mets (and probably Dodgers, knowing them) seems like a very unlikely situation.

 

I'll take "I'm talking out my ass" for $500 Alex.

 

And if you're going to suggest nobody was willing to add the 6th year - well duh - having to add that extra year is often how teams put themselves over the top to land the FA.

[Brownie19]

I think Vlad has generational levels of talent, but it hasn't shown up in the results every season up to this point.

 

I think he has generational hitting talent. But he's entirely one dimensional. He's David Ortiz, or Manny Ramirez.

[glory]

I'll take "I'm talking out my ass" for $500 Alex.

 

And if you're going to suggest nobody was willing to add the 6th year - well duh - having to add that extra year is often how teams put themselves over the top to land the FA.

 

It was implied that Rogers outbidding the Mets for Springer somehow helped the argument that they could do that with Soto as well. I’m saying it’s an apples to oranges comparison because the level of player is totally different. Like, night and day different. Age, projections, talent, injury risk, you name it. Cohen not wanting to go 6 years for a 31 year old OF doesn’t mean he’ll have the same level of restraint for a 25 year old generational talent on a HOF track.

 

If your argument is “we don’t know what will happen”, well no s***. Maybe the Jays offer something that no one else will touch and get him. Maybe Soto chooses the last place team with a poor farm system and only 1 more year of control on Vlad, and says no to the Yankees, Mets, Phillies, and Dodgers (all playoff teams). Like I said I hope I’m wrong but me getting pushback for saying this has a very small chance of happening is crazy. I guess we can dream until about December or so.

[L54]

It was implied that Rogers outbidding the Mets for Springer somehow helped the argument that they could do that with Soto as well. I’m saying it’s an apples to oranges comparison because the level of player is totally different. Like, night and day different. Age, projections, talent, injury risk, you name it. Cohen not wanting to go 6 years for a 31 year old OF doesn’t mean he’ll have the same level of restraint for a 25 year old generational talent on a HOF track.

 

If your argument is “we don’t know what will happen”, well no s***. Maybe the Jays offer something that no one else will touch and get him. Maybe Soto chooses the last place team with a poor farm system and only 1 more year of control on Vlad, and says no to the Yankees, Mets, Phillies, and Dodgers (all playoff teams). Like I said I hope I’m wrong but me getting pushback for saying this has a very small chance of happening is crazy. I guess we can dream until about December or so.

 

Can’t argue with homers

[Omar]

Won't everyone have a different "level of restraint" for a 25 year old tracking for a hof career? Everyone interested will shift what they are willing to spend not just Cohen. That's the point.

[Brownie19]

Can’t argue with homers

 

Sorry - I misread what he was trying to say. It is valid, although I don't think you can completely dismiss the fact the Jays outbid everyone in the league for one of, if not the top FA in baseball (Springer). They've done it before, but yes, Springer is a different animal than Soto.

[Jimcanuck]

Rogers will certainly see the potential investment return to its business from signing Soto, similar to what they saw with Ohtani. As a media company, the Rogers calculus will be quite different from other MLB owners. ROI may not be Cohen's primary consideration but there is a limit to how much cash he is willing to burn. Rather than having a player like Ohtani with a strong desire for a particular team, will this time we see the opposite dynamic - a team owner with a strong desire for Soto, to the point any offer from any other team will be exceeded?

[glory]

Won't everyone have a different "level of restraint" for a 25 year old tracking for a hof career? Everyone interested will shift what they are willing to spend not just Cohen. That's the point.

 

Sure, but then you have to factor which owners/front offices have a history of risk vs risk aversion (i.e. who is more likely to spend beyond a comfortable level), as well as team situation, and so on. The largest FA deal the Jays have ever given was 6/150. Soto is going to get at least double the term and maybe 3-4 times the total value. Whereas we have seen the Phillies sign players to decade long deals (Harper, Turner). We have seen Cohen shatter market norms on AAV (Verlander, Scherzer) as well as another decade+ deal (Lindor). The Yankees are far more conservative with their spending with Hal than George but they are still the Yankees. The Dodgers will spend (and defer) anything.

 

I'm not denying Rogers would make a big offer, but all those things into consideration, for a player of this magnitude (plus his age), it doesn't strike me as a very realistic scenario. I think Vlad and what happens with him will be a big test. He'll require one of those "uncomfortable" decade+ long deals in order to stay. I think Ohtani was a special case. He's the only global superstar in MLB, so I'm sure Rogers saw a lot more revenue potential in that signing than just signing a great baseball player, but who knows. Vlad will be a test on what their level of risk really is.

[L54]

Sorry - I misread what he was trying to say. It is valid, although I don't think you can completely dismiss the fact the Jays outbid everyone in the league for one of, if not the top FA in baseball (Springer). They've done it before, but yes, Springer is a different animal than Soto.

 

Nobody is dismissing the fact George Springer signed with the Blue Jays. We just watched him stay healthy and put up 1 WAR in 2024