General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Masterbather]

The fish helped us secure the fifth best odds to win the lottery. Mission accomplished. Let's go ahead and try to win tomorrow for the fans.

[max silver]

Keep telling yourself that

 

Keep telling myself what? That placing an excessive amount of emphasis on the quality of the coaching staff based on a 2 game sample is low key kind of pointless? In the first game Berrios had a rough start and the cavalcade of dumpster diving acquisition relievers were bombed. So that means the coaching staff is s*** for some reason, that checks out for sure. In the second game the largely rookie laden lineup couldn't get any offense going and the dumpster diving relief core was battered again. So of course that means the coaching staff is terrible again.

[BigCecil]

I think we all knew the last couple of years of this contract would suck. But, I honestly think his okay arm and offense will still be a good fit in LF. I think he has a good year. Not to mention the "veteran presence" that so many discount. Honestly, if we rebuild the bullpen, extend Vladdy and sign Bregman, we have a fighting chance. How many wins gets a WC spot, 85? I have no idea what happens to Bo.

 

Fair enough. I agree that with the 3rd Wildcard lots of teams have a fighting chance to make a Wildcard series. 85 ish should do it ya.

 

I think at this point its a pretty safe bet to say 4 of 6 years of Springer's deal could suck. Not just the last couple.

 

FA median cost/WAR last off season was $4.4M. 3 WAR for $50M in 23 & 24 is not Rendonian, but its just not a good investment.

 

There is a glimmer of hope in his xwOBA, and if he stays healthy maybe there is a resurrection year. But I don't think it would be wise for the FO to bet on it.

[Ryu In My House]

Fair enough. I agree that with the 3rd Wildcard lots of teams have a fighting chance to make a Wildcard series. 85 ish should do it ya.

 

I think at this point its a pretty safe bet to say 4 of 6 years of Springer's deal could suck. Not just the last couple.

 

FA median cost/WAR last off season was $4.4M. 3 WAR for $50M in 23 & 24 is not Rendonian, but its just not a good investment.

 

There is a glimmer of hope in his xwOBA, and if he stays healthy maybe there is a resurrection year. But I don't think it would be wise for the FO to bet on it.

 

That Rendon deal is so shockingly bad. I think about it often.

 

I don't think the front office is betting on much out of Springer to be honest.

 

What do you think happens with Bo? I honestly have no idea what to expect or think. At the chagrin of many, I try to extend him. I extend both Vladdy and Bo, and sign a Bregman. Then I hope that a lot of the other mix-and-match players can provide ~ 2 fWAR to plug in all the other gaps. I consider re-signing Jansen and Kikuchi, too. I think that salary could still work, but it's a lot.

[jaysblue]

Springer being healthy, which is unusual, put up 3 WAR for $50M over the last 2 seasons. A 2.5 WAR season would be a godsend, but I’d take the under.

 

George Springer from July 1st to July 31st started to turn his season around and hit .274/.343/.505 with 5 HR's and a 141wRC+. Those are encouraging numbers. Yes he did get off to a slow start, but cast those numbers aside because from July 1st to July 31st, we saw what the old Springer could give us! Yes his bat did slow down in August and September but he still hit 5 HR's in August and his slow down is likely due to some randomness and bad luck along with age. If Springer could have three months of July in 2025, Jays will be fine and I think there is still a lot left in the tank! For $25M AAV, Springer hasn't been that terrible and every big FA signing turns out bad regardless in the latter years.

 

Jays likely will have around $50-60M in payroll space, so hopefully they could add two big bats, a third baseman, a #2 starter and some bullpen pieces. It's going to be tight to fit all of that in with only $50-60M of spending money, and it's too bad they don't have any more cap space available, but they need to find a way. Springer is making $25M, Bassitt $21M, Berrios $18.7M, and Green $10.5M, but it's alright!

[Spanky99]

George Springer from July 1st to July 31st started to turn his season around and hit .274/.343/.505 with 5 HR's and a 141wRC+. Those are encouraging numbers. Yes he did get off to a slow start, but cast those numbers aside because from July 1st to July 31st, we saw what the old Springer could give us! Yes his bat did slow down in August and September but he still hit 5 HR's in August and his slow down is likely due to some randomness and bad luck along with age. If Springer could have three months of July in 2025, Jays will be fine and I think there is still a lot left in the tank! For $25M AAV, Springer hasn't been that terrible and every big FA signing turns out bad regardless in the latter years.

 

Jays likely will have around $50-60M in payroll space, so hopefully they could add two big bats, a third baseman, a #2 starter and some bullpen pieces. It's going to be tight to fit all of that in with only $50-60M of spending money, and it's too bad they don't have any more cap space available, but they need to find a way. Springer is making $25M, Bassitt $21M, Berrios $18.7M, and Green $10.5M, but it's alright!

 

Dafuq. lol

[Ryu In My House]

I actually think the FO will splurge this off-season. Flex its financial might. It wants bums in the seats to to capitalize on all the renovations, and what could be the last year for Vladdy and Bichette.

[jaysblue]

I actually think the FO will splurge this off-season. Flex its financial might. It wants bums in the seats to to capitalize on all the renovations, and what could be the last year for Vladdy and Bichette.

 

The only option they really have is to splurge. To make upgrades and to cover up all the holes on their 26-man roster is likely going to cost more than $50-60M.

 

On the shopping list:

 

- two power bats (corner OF and DH)

- third baseman

- #2 starting pitcher

- two high leverage bullpen arms

 

They might be able to get away with Clement/Barger at 3B or having Vladdy playing 80 or so games at 3B.

[Jimcanuck]

Let's not forget Orelvis. He could fill one of the vacancies. Start him in AAA, and if he dominates, bring him up. If he struggles, still time before the deadline to make a deal.

 

Jays don't have much choice but to rely on some of the youth.

[Ryu In My House]

Let's not forget Orelvis. He could fill one of the vacancies. Start him in AAA, and if he dominates, bring him up. If he struggles, still time before the deadline to make a deal.

 

Jays don't have much choice but to rely on some of the youth.

 

PED suspensions are never awesome, but his was so ill timed. We could all have such a better idea who this guy is at this point. I actually have to remind myself to think of Orelvis.

[Spanky99]

The only option they really have is to splurge. To make upgrades and to cover up all the holes on their 26-man roster is likely going to cost more than $50-60M.

 

On the shopping list:

 

- two power bats (corner OF and DH)

- third baseman

- #2 starting pitcher

- two high leverage bullpen arms

 

They might be able to get away with Clement/Barger at 3B or having Vladdy playing 80 or so games at 3B.

 

You can't possibly think all that gets attained this winter for 50/60M?

 

It might if they go well over the CBT since it's been reset, I'm hoping that's the case or it's going to be a grind again next season. You aren't getting 2 power bats a 3rd baseman a #2 type SP and leverage relievers for 50M. lol... not a chance.

[BigCecil]

I actually think the FO will splurge this off-season. Flex its financial might. It wants bums in the seats to to capitalize on all the renovations, and what could be the last year for Vladdy and Bichette.

 

This ownership has no choice with the money invested to date in the team payroll, development facilities and renos. They gonna spend.

 

The "core" be burnin' years too. Down to 1.

[jaysblue]

You can't possibly think all that gets attained this winter for 50/60M?

 

It might if they go well over the CBT since it's been reset, I'm hoping that's the case or it's going to be a grind again next season. You aren't getting 2 power bats a 3rd baseman a #2 type SP and leverage relievers for 50M. lol... not a chance.

 

Yeah you never read my post lol.

 

I said given all the holes they need to fill on the active roster, they likely have to spend more than $50-60M that they have available to address those areas. Also, I said they could roll with Clement/Barger at 3B in order to save some money.

 

As well I might add, it doesn't help that players like Springer (25M), or arms like Green (10.5M), Bassitt(21M) and Berrios (18.7M) are tying up a lot of money on the payroll. Not the most effective use of finances. That's $75M tied up to just those 4 guys.

[Spanky99]

Yeah you never read my post lol.

 

I said given all the holes they need to fill on the active roster, they likely have to spend more than $50-60M that they have available to address those areas. Also, I said they could roll with Clement/Barger at 3B in order to save some money.

 

As well I might add, it doesn't help that players like Springer (25M), or arms like Green (10.5M), Bassitt(21M) and Berrios (18.7M) are tying up a lot of money on the payroll. Not the most effective use of finances. That's $75M tied up to just those 4 guys.

 

K.....

[BigCecil]

Gausman spits truth:

 

"I'm sick of all the 'talent' talk," Gausman told the Toronto Sun's Rob Longley this weekend.

 

"We're so talented, this and that. We've got to start winning games. We've got to figure it out. We've got to do it quickly. I'm only getting older. (Fellow starter Chris) Bassitt is only getting older. If we want it to happen with this group, it has to happen soon. So what are we going to do?"

[max silver]

Fair enough. I agree that with the 3rd Wildcard lots of teams have a fighting chance to make a Wildcard series. 85 ish should do it ya.

 

I think at this point its a pretty safe bet to say 4 of 6 years of Springer's deal could suck. Not just the last couple.

 

FA median cost/WAR last off season was $4.4M. 3 WAR for $50M in 23 & 24 is not Rendonian, but its just not a good investment.

 

There is a glimmer of hope in his xwOBA, and if he stays healthy maybe there is a resurrection year. But I don't think it would be wise for the FO to bet on it.

 

Free agent costs from last offseason aren't particularly relevant to the year that Springer was signed.

[max silver]

This ownership has no choice with the money invested to date in the team payroll, development facilities and renos. They gonna spend.

 

The "core" be burnin' years too. Down to 1.

 

This might be a good offseason to load up on free agents and start working towards replacing some of the soon to depart players and attempting to acquire some new core players. Bassitt is gone after next season, Gausman and Springer only have two remaining seasons each, Romano, Bo and Vlad each have only one season left under contract etc. I have doubts Rogers would open up the purse strings further for a season or two if the opportunity arises to add impact talent and run a higher than expected payroll for a season or two but it would make a big difference for the front office to have a bit more available payroll space.

[L54]

Goodbye 2024

[Olerud363]

Goodbye 2024

 

Disaster of a season in almost all respects.

 

Cavan Biggio - released (happy moment for some)

Orelvis Martinez - suspended for using women's fertility treatment

Ricky T. - Tommy John

Bo Bichette - .220 with 4 homers misses 80 games

Varsho - .220 again! (but good defense)

Kirk - takes noodle bat to next noodle level (but good defense)

Springer - takes aging to next level

Manoah - Tommy John

Romano - Lost season but no surgeries (or did he get some minor surgery?)

Loperfido/Barger/Schnedier - .190 hitters on pace for 250 ks if they played full time

 

What is the answer ? Only players who played good were Guerrero (80 hit tool legend looking for 40 million in Arb, 700 14 years for long term), Spencer, Clemente, Wagner/Lukes (low sample size).

[Olerud363]

Starting Rotation on the surface did OK. But mainly league average at run prevention. Like 3.80 ERA is average of Rotation. Healthy mostly and non-disastrous with Francis appearing to be (for 2 months) the next Greg Maddux... maybe he will watch the Greg Maddux documentary over the winter, and say 'yeah, yeah, OK. I was Greg Maddux for 2 months, now I'll do it for 10 years so I get documentary.

[The_DH]

Offseason step 1: get rid of the hitting coaches. Their impact seemed really bad and too many called third strikes with the bat on their shoulders.

[Laika]

Disaster of a season in almost all respects.

 

Cavan Biggio - released (happy moment for some)

Orelvis Martinez - suspended for using women's fertility treatment

Ricky T. - Tommy John

Bo Bichette - .220 with 4 homers misses 80 games

Varsho - .220 again! (but good defense)

Kirk - takes noodle bat to next noodle level (but good defense)

Springer - takes aging to next level

Manoah - Tommy John

Romano - Lost season but no surgeries (or did he get some minor surgery?)

Loperfido/Barger/Schnedier - .190 hitters on pace for 250 ks if they played full time

 

What is the answer ? Only players who played good were Guerrero (80 hit tool legend looking for 40 million in Arb, 700 14 years for long term), Spencer, Clemente, Wagner/Lukes (low sample size).

 

Romano did have some kind of minor elbow surgery. To move a nerve or fix an impingement or something.

[The_DH]

Good starting analysis of the 40 man roster for the offseason.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/mlb/which-members-of-the-blue-jays-40-man-roster-will-be-back-in-2025/ar-AA1rtgPu?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=a2dcb7972ab34823925fa1803da5d34c&ei=24

[hanton]

"..mess"

 

Jamie Campbell on the 2024 season, strong language

 

(I think I heard that correctly)

[Barrelsandbombs]

Shapiro and Atkins meeting with the media together on Wednesday.

 

[Stangstag]

Shapiro and Atkins meeting with the media together on Wednesday.

 

 

I can’t wait for 2025 and the possibility of maybe scraping by and sneaking into the playoffs just to get bounced round 1 after some extremely questionable in-game moves by Schneider.

[Brownie19]

I can’t wait for 2025 and the possibility of maybe scraping by and sneaking into the playoffs just to get bounced round 1 after some extremely questionable in-game moves by Schneider.

 

I mean - that's not how the playoffs really work, but I get it. Would you rather we didn't make the playoffs? You want to see them rebuild now instead? I do think a rebuild now is the best path to future success, but I've come to accept it's complicated given the reno's and the status of Shatkins and I suspect we're going to spend and try to compete in 2025. I also wonder - if we throw in the towel now and start rebuilding, what does that do to our chances of signing Vlad (and/or Bo?) to extensions. If rebuilding now means you have to trade Vlad and Bo - do you still think that's the right direction? It's an interesting debate.

[BigCecil]

The coalition still believing in this FO is down to AA haters, Statkins cult fart sniffers, Hopium smokers and a few apologists.

 

If they make it through the off season, its show me time. Talk is cheap. Its only about results now - seats sold, eye balls watching and on the field performance convergence. They have been given a 3rd wildcard reprieve.

 

The Jays lost the fewest games to injury in MLB in 2024 and won 74 games with a luxury tax payroll. The next fewest games lost to injury in MLB were the Tigers with 54 more. There really aren't any good excuses left. Every team deals with IL losses, under performers and over performers every year.

 

The farm is bottom third to quarter depending on various rankings. Its just not good enough. We have become the old, expensive team other teams want to play.

[G-Snarls]

Cardinals are done with Goldschmidt and are planning to trade away all veteran players.

 

Anyone we'd want the Jays to target?

 

Goldschmidt - 37 and probably much more "name" than production now? But damn it's still temping if he'd take a 1 year deal and he may have to...

Arenado - Love him but that contract uggggg 9 yr, $275M (2019-27) AAV: $30.56M

Wilson Contreras - Part time cather/DH?

Sonny Gray - we'd prob get outbid by others who need SP more

 

Ryan Helsley - Free agent actually. Good numbers, but will he demand too many years?

Andrew Kittredge - ditto, and he's older than Helsley

 

They had a pretty good bullpen this year, I can see us going there

[Laika]

Arenado's contract is

 

$32M ($5M paid by Rockies)

$27M ($5M paid by Rockies)

$15M

 

So it's only $15 + $22 + $27 = $64M left to any team that trades for him. 3/$64M

 

It's not THAT gross. His projections are okay?

 

 

I'd be down for Goldschmidt on a one year deal in the Jays situation for sure. In fact, he's kind of a perfect fit.

 

If the Jays completely whiff in free agency, I would actually consider trading nothing for Arenado. The deal remaining in 2025 and 2026 won't be that relevant for a team like Toronto anyway.