General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[The_DH]

Well if they wanted him to get some experience being with the team I get it, but otherwise I don't have a lot of faith in the roster management.

[G-Snarls]

Did anybody even make a post that Vogelbach got released? I can't even see a mention of it which clearly reflects how much we care.

[The_DH]

I think when he was designated for assignment, we all just read that as released.

[max silver]

When he's trading a prospect for a veteran, he's good. When he's trading a veteran for a prospect, that's when it gets dicey.

 

We don't really have recent history to go off of in terms of trading veterans for prospects so who knows what to expect in terms of return. The team has been a buyer at the deadline for the last 4 years so it's been a long time since veterans were moved out in trade for prospect types.

[M.E.]

Bo and KK to the dodgers for a hall of close prospects. Would losing those two really impact how this season is going based on how they have done so far? If this could happen then the extension of Vlad likely has to happen.

[Key22]

Why little mention of Gausman as a trade chip? He's the first guy I'd trade if Level 1 is activated.

 

I like Gausman but he doesn't seem to me to be a big game number 1 starter when you really need a win in a critical game - would you want him to start? Personally, I would take Berrios, Bassit or even Kikuchi.

 

You probably get more for Gausman as his price is not unreasonable and he's definitely a "get you to the playoffs innings eater." But with the money saved and the package you could land for him - he has to be some you consider moving.

 

I am not sure why the Jays aren't looking to extend Jansen - injuries aside he always seems like a pretty darn good solid-hitting catcher with respectable defense. DO we have a great internal option ready to suit up next year? Is there a sign that Kirk is going to be better than he's been? Danny looks like a guy you could probably sign to a 4-5-year contract at dollars that would not be crippling to the team.

 

Indeed, the Jays can always be buyers and sellers.

 

As for Shapiro and Atkins - whoever they eventually hire probably got fired from some other organization and the fans of the organization probably felt their GM was a bonehead. Kim Ng is probably the only exception.

 

Alex Cora is likely going to be up for manager of the year - he apparently has a desire to be a GM.

 

The Jays have James Click - former GM of the Astros and perhaps he can be elevated to the President role with Cora as the GM. (albeit a first-time GM would not go down well perhaps - and fans will remember the last time we hired a Red Sox personnel who bailed the first chance he got). However, Cora isn't a life long Red Sox.

 

I think with the trades - you have to factor in moving salary - Vlad will probably get something like $25m in arbitration - so factor that in - you get players back and you have $25m in free agent money. Hypothetically, let's say you move Vladdy, Bo, Kikuchi, Garcia - you get 11 quality prospects - and then in the off-season with all those salaries off the books, you able to land Juan Soto. Would you do it? Juan Soto and 11 quality prospects for those 4 players?

 

That's sort of the way you look at it - And if not SOTO but 2 really good free agents and improving the farm system maybe 10-15 positions.

[L54]

Why little mention of Gausman as a trade chip? He's the first guy I'd trade if Level 1 is activated.

 

Kikuchi should be the first starter shipped out and Gausman should be second if they sell. 2/44M left on the contract has value even if he’s been cheeks to start

[L54]

It sucks to admit defeat because Gausman was a great signing, has been excellent his first two years in Toronto and is really fun to watch when he’s on. But he’s 33 and I’d rather cash in than hold if they sell

[Jimcanuck]

I like Gausman but he doesn't seem to me to be a big game number 1 starter when you really need a win in a critical game - would you want him to start? Personally, I would take Berrios, Bassit or even Kikuchi.

 

You probably get more for Gausman as his price is not unreasonable and he's definitely a "get you to the playoffs innings eater." But with the money saved and the package you could land for him - he has to be some you consider moving.

 

I am not sure why the Jays aren't looking to extend Jansen - injuries aside he always seems like a pretty darn good solid-hitting catcher with respectable defense. DO we have a great internal option ready to suit up next year? Is there a sign that Kirk is going to be better than he's been? Danny looks like a guy you could probably sign to a 4-5-year contract at dollars that would not be crippling to the team.

 

Indeed, the Jays can always be buyers and sellers.

 

As for Shapiro and Atkins - whoever they eventually hire probably got fired from some other organization and the fans of the organization probably felt their GM was a bonehead. Kim Ng is probably the only exception.

 

Alex Cora is likely going to be up for manager of the year - he apparently has a desire to be a GM.

 

The Jays have James Click - former GM of the Astros and perhaps he can be elevated to the President role with Cora as the GM. (albeit a first-time GM would not go down well perhaps - and fans will remember the last time we hired a Red Sox personnel who bailed the first chance he got). However, Cora isn't a life long Red Sox.

 

I think with the trades - you have to factor in moving salary - Vlad will probably get something like $25m in arbitration - so factor that in - you get players back and you have $25m in free agent money. Hypothetically, let's say you move Vladdy, Bo, Kikuchi, Garcia - you get 11 quality prospects - and then in the off-season with all those salaries off the books, you able to land Juan Soto. Would you do it? Juan Soto and 11 quality prospects for those 4 players?

 

That's sort of the way you look at it - And if not SOTO but 2 really good free agents and improving the farm system maybe 10-15 positions.

 

Forget Soto. Yanks will match any Jays offer

[Krylian]

Kikuchi should be the first starter shipped out and Gausman should be second if they sell. 2/44M left on the contract has value even if he’s been cheeks to start

 

Problem is this team doesn't have a great track record of cashing in and selling off assets when it's clear to most that is time. They seem to act a year too late.

[L54]

Problem is this team doesn't have a great track record of cashing in and selling off assets when it's clear to most that is time. They seem to act a year too late.

 

I mean they weren’t selling last year at the deadline or this offseason so it’s kind of impossible to be too late right now

 

Of course they could hold everybody and miss the playoffs and your point would be valid

 

I think they’ll move Kikuchi and Garcia at least. If they’re six games back at the ASB it’s going to be pretty obvious it’s not happening this year, and it’s tough to see where they would make up ground. It would be a Rockies esque move to hold unless they’re like 2 games back, then they can use that as their justification

[Laika]

Kikuchi should be the first starter shipped out and Gausman should be second if they sell. 2/44M left on the contract has value even if he’s been cheeks to start

 

Kikuchi definitely first to go

I think trying to just dump Bassitt's remaining money would be #2 for me

There are then arguments for trying to get value for, and get out of the contracts for, both Gausman and Berrios

 

But at that point you start to wonder who is even starting games for the Jays over the next 2-3 years lol

 

I feel like Gausman's Ace allure is unfortunately gone with the velo drop and teams will be MUCH less interested in giving up premium pieces for him on that contract. Sadness.

[L54]

Kikuchi definitely first to go

I think trying to just dump Bassitt's remaining money would be #2 for me

There are then arguments for trying to get value for, and get out of the contracts for, both Gausman and Berrios

 

But at that point you start to wonder who is even starting games for the Jays over the next 2-3 years lol

 

I feel like Gausman's Ace allure is unfortunately gone with the velo drop and teams will be MUCH less interested in giving up premium pieces for him on that contract. Sadness.

 

I’d keep Bassitt because of the fact they’re going to need innings chewed, and it’s only one year @ 22M

 

I’m moving Gausman because he has two years. Someone will want to pay for that even if he’s not a top 20 guy anymore, which is said because he was a bonafide top 10 SP entering the season

[connorp]

Forget Soto. Yanks will match any Jays offer

 

Yes. So.. you can take it to the bank we’re going to be used as the foil. All over the media. Soto mania in Toronto. 2nd place finish

[MikeM3]

The guy you gotta dump is Berrios

[jaysblue]

I’d keep Bassitt because of the fact they’re going to need innings chewed, and it’s only one year @ 22M

 

I’m moving Gausman because he has two years. Someone will want to pay for that even if he’s not a top 20 guy anymore, which is said because he was a bonafide top 10 SP entering the season

 

Yeah you make a good point about keeping Bassitt for that very reason. Jays would need to sign a similar guy anyways for next year. Could probably even deal Bassitt at the deadline next season and still get a similar return.

 

Gausman would still bring in a nice return. Sucks he's not a top 20 guy anymore like you said, because his first two seasons here in Toronto he was one of the elite starters in the game. It's a shame the Jays couldn't take advantage of those years Gausman was pitching at an elite level like he was. Hope he can put together a string of starts in July where he flashes that elite level again to convince other teams he still could be a bonafide No. 1 guy. Best time would be to trade him this trade deadline. If you wait longer, his value decreases more especially if he's just pitching like a No. 2/3 guy.

[jaysblue]

The guy you gotta dump is Berrios

 

Yeah would be nice to clear that money and contract. Berrios is a solid arm who could eat innings, but he's no ace or anything. Having a solid season still, so there likely would be takers. Free up that money!

[jaysblue]

Yes. So.. you can take it to the bank we’re going to be used as the foil. All over the media. Soto mania in Toronto. 2nd place finish

 

Soto ain't coming here.

 

Maybe they have a chance at Bregman since he's already 30 but not sure how many years you would want to go with him especially given his age and his struggles this season.

[Omar]

Yeah would be nice to clear that money and contract. Berrios is a solid arm who could eat innings, but he's no ace or anything. Having a solid season still, so there likely would be takers. Free up that money!

 

 

Berrios is the guy you keep during a quick rebuild. He stays healthy, is a leader to younger pitchers, etc. You don't dump every asset. Rogers has money so the issue of saving is way overblown.

[The_DH]

any good japanese/korean players coming available this off-season?

[jaysblue]

Berrios is the guy you keep during a quick rebuild. He stays healthy, is a leader to younger pitchers, etc. You don't dump every asset. Rogers has money so the issue of saving is way overblown.

 

Not at $18.7M per season for a pitcher who likely will have a FIP above 4. He's under control until 2029 unless he opts out after 2026. He's already 30-years-old and the back end of his contract might not look too good in another year or so.

 

You can easily find an arm that could give you innings and a 4 FIP and it won't cost you years or $18.7M. His contract in the last 2-3 years could be an albatross so best to cash in now and let him be another teams problem.

[Eat My Shatkins]

any good japanese/korean players coming available this off-season?

 

Looking ahead to other potential stars, none are bigger than Japanese sensation Roki Sasaki. The right-handed pitcher is viewed as a potential generational talent, posting an ERA of 1.78 in 91.0 innings pitched in the JPPL last season. In his first four starts of the 2024 season, Sasaki has posted a 1.64 ERA in 33.0 innings pitched. He struck out 135 last season and has 37 strikeouts this season.

 

Might be posted this year

 

Also, slugger Munetaka Murakami

 

Expect them to end up either in California or New York though.

 

I mean, that's just the reality of it.

[glory]

I’d keep Berrios and Bassitt only to eat up innings. Those two if nothing else are durable, and I don’t think you’d get a haul for either one of them. Of course if a team gives up something good for Berrios you do it but those two player options on the back end of that deal don’t seem very team friendly. Gausman is a different story. Maybe a team won’t give up an ace return for him anymore but even something a little below that would be worth pursuing. That might be the most sensible compromise for the team that clearly will not bottom out. They can use the $20m+ on another SP in the winter plus whatever prospects they get back to help the team try to contend in 2025.

 

It won’t happen (Kikuchi is probably the only SP they even consider trading next month) but it’s a good idea.

[jaysblue]

I’d keep Berrios and Bassitt only to eat up innings. Those two if nothing else are durable, and I don’t think you’d get a haul for either one of them. Of course if a team gives up something good for Berrios you do it but those two player options on the back end of that deal don’t seem very team friendly. Gausman is a different story. Maybe a team won’t give up an ace return for him anymore but even something a little below that would be worth pursuing. That might be the most sensible compromise for the team that clearly will not bottom out. They can use the $20m+ on another SP in the winter plus whatever prospects they get back to help the team try to contend in 2025.

 

It won’t happen (Kikuchi is probably the only SP they even consider trading next month) but it’s a good idea.

 

Why would you want to keep Berrios in the latter years of his contract? Even if the Jays have a short rebuild and are contenders in 2026/2027, they might need that $18.7M elsewhere and Berrios won't be the same arm we saw in 2021/2023/2024 in 2026/2027.

 

Keeping Bassitt makes more sense since he's a FA after 2025 anyways, so it's short term. Berrios, we're talking about potentially $86M over the next 4 years!

[The_DH]

I think the only way we can get back into a top-level team is with some top notch Asian and maybe Cuban players. We're not going to get anything further out of the minors and too many players on the decline like Springer, Bo and Vladdy.

[glory]

Why would you want to keep Berrios in the latter years of his contract? Even if the Jays have a short rebuild and are contenders in 2026/2027, they might need that $18.7M elsewhere. He won't be the Berrios we saw in 2021/2023 and this season in 2026/2027.

 

It’s not about wanting to keep him as much as what makes sense for a team that won’t rebuild and won’t get anything meaningful in return for him. If you’re trading Gausman and Berrios, then there’s no shot this team is good in 2025, which is fine with me but probably not fine with the decision makers. So you trade the guy who is going to fetch the most value in return (Gausman) and hold the one who is less likely to bring a haul back in a trade and use him to eat up innings. It’s possible I’m underselling Berrios’ trade value but I don’t think I am. Those two player options amount to nearly $50m over 2 years, and that’s two years from now. I really don’t see a team taking that contract, much less giving up high value for it, but maybe I’m wrong.

[MikeM3]

It’s not about wanting to keep him as much as what makes sense for a team that won’t rebuild and won’t get anything meaningful in return for him. If you’re trading Gausman and Berrios, then there’s no shot this team is good in 2025, which is fine with me but probably not fine with the decision makers. So you trade the guy who is going to fetch the most value in return (Gausman) and hold the one who is less likely to bring a haul back in a trade and use him to eat up innings. It’s possible I’m underselling Berrios’ trade value but I don’t think I am. Those two player options amount to nearly $50m over 2 years, and that’s two years from now. I really don’t see a team taking that contract, much less giving up high value for it, but maybe I’m wrong.

 

I think the "innings eater" stuff still appeals to certain teams. Probably the Cards, Rockies, Nats. And the player option might make these teams wrongly think he'll opt out. He won't because he sucks and by 2026 will be a gas can if he loses even a tick of velo.

 

We will almost assuredly get nothing back but he has very nice dead weight anchor potential that I would be eager to be rid of

[jaysblue]

It’s not about wanting to keep him as much as what makes sense for a team that won’t rebuild and won’t get anything meaningful in return for him. If you’re trading Gausman and Berrios, then there’s no shot this team is good in 2025, which is fine with me but probably not fine with the decision makers. So you trade the guy who is going to fetch the most value in return (Gausman) and hold the one who is less likely to bring a haul back in a trade and use him to eat up innings. It’s possible I’m underselling Berrios’ trade value but I don’t think I am. Those two player options amount to nearly $50m over 2 years, and that’s two years from now. I really don’t see a team taking that contract, much less giving up high value for it, but maybe I’m wrong.

 

Yeah unless a team is desperate for starting pitching at the deadline. Those two years at the backend of his contract look like they could be a disaster.

[Laika]

Everyone in the Jays rotation other than Kikuchi is a ticking velo loss timebomb

 

Take 1 mph from Berrios, Bassitt, or Gausman and they will start getting f***ing destroyed

 

If the team is re-tooling you can justify trading literally all of them and then just signing short term SP replacements

 

One of the only things Toronto has been good at is acquiring and fixing SP. Lean into that one f***ing organizational skill. They don't need to clutch their pearls about veteran innings...

[Jimcanuck]

If the O's can scrape by with shitballers (circa 2021-22), so can Toronto. The state of the franchise is quite poor right now. In such case job #1 is to restock the farm. I don't frigging care, I actually welcome, if the Jays are ALE bottom dwellers in 2025. Potential to get #1 pick with the draft. Start the upswing in 2026.