General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Masterbather]

So you now finally came to your senses and can see that a Ross lead team will not win a f***ing thing? There are a lot of people in here including myself that saw the writing on the wall over two years ago. I've been calling for his head for over three years now, oh well..

People think we take "joy" in this. I take no joy in being in this spot, it f***ing sucks, but the quicker we move on, the quicker we can contend for real. It's just that some of us realized we needed to move on sooner than others. We wasted time and lost asset value on a fraudulent team that was never a real contender.

 

The window was 2021 and it was missed because enough wasn't done to fortify the pitching, especially early in the season when we watched the bullpen tank game after game.

[Spanky99]

Whatever the f*** that means. Why don't you just spell out what you want to say? Everybody has lost their minds.

 

Never seen Boogie Nights? Seen writing on the wall over 2 years ago...lol

[MikeM3]

What the f*** is vogelbach doing on this roster. He has a 36% zone swing. He's doing literally nothing. This is insane.

[hanton]

What the f*** is vogelbach doing on this roster. He has a 36% zone swing. He's doing literally nothing. This is insane.

 

No idea, would be better off giving Horwitz a shot - instead he's wasting away in AAA

[G-Snarls]

What the f*** is vogelbach doing on this roster. He has a 36% zone swing. He's doing literally nothing. This is insane.

 

Holding Joey Votto's beer

[John Balkabella]

Love the Voglebach talk.

 

It is like if only the Leafs had better fourth liners, or a better No. 6 defenceman.

 

Your best players have to be your best players.

 

It ain’t hard.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

So you now finally came to your senses and can see that a Ross lead team will not win a f***ing thing? There are a lot of people in here including myself that saw the writing on the wall over two years ago. I've been calling for his head for over three years now, oh well..

 

 

I hear ya, I've been wanting to see Atkins gone since they signed Grichuk to that stupid contract, and it's only got worst since then.

 

We hired the wrong guys from Cleveland.

[John Balkabella]

I was hoping they knew something about developing pitchers. Obviously, it was other guys in the Cleveland org.

[L54]

I was hoping they knew something about developing pitchers. Obviously, it was other guys in the Cleveland org.

 

Funny isn’t it? I think everyone expected us to turn into a pitching factory but that never happened

[L54]

What the f*** is vogelbach doing on this roster. He has a 36% zone swing. He's doing literally nothing. This is insane.

 

When your roster is full of utility players you don’t even need that 26th spot

[Brownie19]

No idea, would be better off giving Horwitz a shot - instead he's wasting away in AAA

 

You want Horwitz on the team getting 1 start every 7-8 games? That's not a great idea....and very likely the reason it hasn't happened.

[hanton]

You want Horwitz on the team getting 1 start every 7-8 games? That's not a great idea....and very likely the reason it hasn't happened.

 

poor planning then, what were schneider, clement, horwitz..etc doing in aaa all this time? of course they can't be prpomoted all at the same time

[hanton]

and now Martinez is pushing for a promotion

[hanton]

there was zero need for ikf and vogel

[Brownie19]

poor planning then, what were schneider, clement, horwitz..etc doing in aaa all this time? of course they can't be prpomoted all at the same time

 

What? This is a new level of thinking that I'm not familiar with.

[max silver]

You want Horwitz on the team getting 1 start every 7-8 games? That's not a great idea....and very likely the reason it hasn't happened.

 

I wonder if the team largely viewed Horwitz as trade bait given how they effectively blocked him with signings of Vogelbach and even Votto. Now with the team completely floundering it may actually make more sense to open a spot for Horwitz at some point, but that would mean moving one of Vlad or Turner to clear a spot for him.

[max silver]

The quality of 2005-2010 teams was similar to the 2020-2023 teams in terms of run differential. Can't believe people don't get that if the 89th win was important (which it wasn't in that era) the team would have done much more to get the 89th win.

 

That would have depended on getting Rogers to actually open up the pocketbooks to allow the team to make more significant trade deadline acquisitions.

[The_DH]

No, I'd have Horwitz getting 2-3 starts per week with Vogelbach gone. IKF would start on the bench 2-3 games but late innings all the time.

I know this sounds funny but I think good hitters make other good hitters better. Conversely, duds make mediocre hitters worse.

[Brownie19]

No, I'd have Horwitz getting 2-3 starts per week with Vogelbach gone. IKF would start on the bench 2-3 games but late innings all the time.

I know this sounds funny but I think good hitters make other good hitters better. Conversely, duds make mediocre hitters worse.

 

You're going to start Turner at 3rd base 2-3 times a week? yikes - he's started 3 games at 3rd all year (in 35 games). Or are you benching Vlad?

 

The move might be to trade Turner right now for whatever lottery ticket you can get. That would free up space to see what we have in Horwitz/Barger. I support that move.

[wilko]

I wonder how many starts they are going to let Manoah "figure it out"?

[Brownie19]

I wonder how many starts they are going to let Manoah "figure it out"?

 

Likely a lot more than anyone wants. The alternatives are all hurt. Maybe Francis takes over if/when he gets healthy, but we've already seen what that looked like. We could start Brendon Little instead?

[The_DH]

You're going to start Turner at 3rd base 2-3 times a week? yikes - he's started 3 games at 3rd all year (in 35 games). Or are you benching Vlad?

 

The move might be to trade Turner right now for whatever lottery ticket you can get. That would free up space to see what we have in Horwitz/Barger. I support that move.

 

No, I'd give a day off per week to Vlad and Turner and give Turner a day a week at 3b.

[mphenhef]

When your roster is full of utility players you don’t even need that 26th spot

 

So go with a pure speed guy like Cam Eden.

[Olerud363]

there was zero need for ikf and vogel

 

Totally. The one thing AA did in 2015 was leave a little room for some young players. Travis, Pompey, Pillar and Goins were all given spots and contributed 6 or 7 WAR.

 

Maybe he learned from misery izturis or whatever that guys name was. No need for ikf for f***s sake. And vogel? Maybe even no need for Turner (though he is playing well).

[Laika]

I just want a decent team and some fun players, man.

 

Other than a few bright lights like Varsho/Schneider/Kikuchi this team has been a drag to watch.

 

The 2021 and 2022 teams were more entertaining.

 

Breaking up the barrio was a mistake.

[Brownie19]

Totally. The one thing AA did in 2015 was leave a little room for some young players. Travis, Pompey, Pillar and Goins were all given spots and contributed 6 or 7 WAR.

 

Maybe he learned from misery izturis or whatever that guys name was. No need for ikf for f***s sake. And vogel? Maybe even no need for Turner (though he is playing well).

 

Don't forget AA's downfall was often the depth he created. There's some inherent luck that Devon Travis was great as a rookie in 2015 and again in 2016 because there as virtually no backup plan. I guess Goins was the backup plan and well - he sucked, even in 2015, which was his career year. Travis was done as a player after those 2 seasons. AA also got career years out of Pillar and Colabello in 2015 - perfect timing.

 

You could argue Atkins made/left room for Kirk, Manoah, Espinal, Teo, etc. if you wanted.

 

Pompey always sucked. He never played more than 34 games. Goins also sucked balls.

[Terminator]

I love the complete revisionist history regarding AA on this board. He gets discussed way too much as is but I'd like to point out how much bitching you all did when he was here.

 

The DAILY posts about the RA Dickey trade make the Atkins complaints look like small fries. It was a constant thing, and when Josh Thole came along for the ride the complaints doubled.

 

Further, that 2015 team was damn good but it was older than dirt and had some major holes that AA did/could not address. One of the most important games in franchise history and Ben Revere and his noodle bat is hitting leadoff, Chris Colabello is batting 5th and Ryan Goins is in the lineup too. It's no wonder we lost to that s***** Royals team.

 

Now before someone says, "But Terminator, Ross Atkins is literally ruining my life right now!!" just take a chill pill and realize that I'm not saying I hate AA and love Atkins. Their tenures in TO seem pretty damn similar to me and I think both are probably pretty decent but not great GMs. AA seems to be better now than he used to be but I'm scared shitless of what he does in trying to keep that old core around. Very well could have given in to extensions on Donaldson and Bautista who s*** the bed shortly after that year.

[BigCecil]

Term, I think you bring up AA more than anyone. Who gives a f***? He gone. Its 2024.

 

- As far extensions the ones he did give Edwin and Jose were under market steals in TOR

 

- His long term deals with Albies and Acuna Jr are steals.

 

- The 2015 team was old. The 2024 team is the oldest line up and rotation in the Division.

 

- He let 11.3 WAR walk at 1B and SS (sound familiar) after winning the WS ring in Swanson and Freeman. No extensions. Then they won 100 games the next year.

 

Yet you are sooooooooo worried he would have given Vlad 12/350.

[Stangstag]

I love the complete revisionist history regarding AA on this board. He gets discussed way too much as is but I'd like to point out how much bitching you all did when he was here.

 

The DAILY posts about the RA Dickey trade make the Atkins complaints look like small fries. It was a constant thing, and when Josh Thole came along for the ride the complaints doubled.

 

Further, that 2015 team was damn good but it was older than dirt and had some major holes that AA did/could not address. One of the most important games in franchise history and Ben Revere and his noodle bat is hitting leadoff, Chris Colabello is batting 5th and Ryan Goins is in the lineup too. It's no wonder we lost to that s***** Royals team.

 

Now before someone says, "But Terminator, Ross Atkins is literally ruining my life right now!!" just take a chill pill and realize that I'm not saying I hate AA and love Atkins. Their tenures in TO seem pretty damn similar to me and I think both are probably pretty decent but not great GMs. AA seems to be better now than he used to be but I'm scared shitless of what he does in trying to keep that old core around. Very well could have given in to extensions on Donaldson and Bautista who s*** the bed shortly after that year.

 

Yep. The constant talk about AA is tiring.

[Terminator]

Term, I think you bring up AA more than anyone. Who gives a f***? He gone. Its 2024.

 

- As far extensions the ones he did give Edwin and Jose were under market steals in TOR

 

- His long term deals with Albies and Acuna Jr are steals.

 

- He let 11.3 WAR walk at 1B and SS (sound familiar) after winning the WS ring in Swanson and Freeman. No extensions. Then won 100 games the next year.

 

Yet you are sooooooooo worried he would have given Vlad 12/350.

 

You cannot be serious lol, the only time I bring him up is in response to comments about him. I see at least 20 a day and make about 2 posts about him a week. You make more posts bitching about Chad Green in a DAY than I will make about AA in an entire year pal.

 

In addition, I literally just said he was pretty decent here and think he's doing an even better job in Atlanta. But you AA Fanboys can't handle anything other than pure unbridled praise for him and will literally come crawling out from your caves to fight on his behalf if even a neutral opinion is shared about him. It's absurd and needs to end.