General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Laika]

We will never know but The Big Contract was never JPR's strength

 

A few examples. More money, more BJ Ryans?

[hanton]

Dodgers are essentially taking the same approach with Walker Buehler.

 

don't use jays and dodgers in the same sentence - please.

[Jays333]

I know its only May and anything can happen. Really though this team looks like the exact same team from last year, but the offense is a little worse, and the pitching is not quite as good. I also think its probably 1 in a million that we repeat the pitching health we had last year. The AL competition is stiffer this year. We win anywhere from 75 to 85 games and miss the wildcard by a decent margin. Revenue, interest and profits are down for Rogers. Cause lets face it this is boring ass brand of baseball. Shatkins comes under serious heat. Vladdy going to FA without a contract becomes inevitable, people start calling about Bichette and we are starting over with a new GM within 3 years. Just my opinion hahaha!

[connorp]

We will never know but The Big Contract was never JPR's strength

 

A few examples. More money, more BJ Ryans?

 

He apparently didn’t learn a lesson, bc he’s still the type to pay $20m/yr for a closer. Most perennial WS teams will pay for it, rather than hope someone works out to be that level. BJ just got hurt, never to return the same.

[Laika]

He apparently didn’t learn a lesson, bc he’s still the type to pay $20m/yr for a closer. Most perennial WS teams will pay for it, rather than hope someone works out to be that level.

 

You sure about that bro?

You sure about that?

[Olerud363]

JP's *best* team won 87 games and still likely wouldn't have made the playoffs a single time even with expanded playoffs. This doesn't really feel like an apples to apples comparison if you are going to legitimately say that JP had more success in his tenure as Blue Jays GM. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Thing is though they would have been contending for a playoff spot in 2003/2005/2006/2007 and 2008 so may have made different moves at the deadline and offseason.

 

From 2005 to 2009 they weirdly under-performed expected wins almost every year, I believe the run differential from 2005-2009 is better than the best 5 year run differential of AA or Shatkins.

 

Quality of the team from 2005 to 2010 (which was still basicaly Ricciardi's team) was good. With expanded playoffs it is pretty reasonable to say they squeak a few more wins out each year if they are playing for something the entire time... instead they were mostly 10 games behind Red Sox/Yankees/Rays most of the season.

[BigCecil]

Do any of you guys actually go to the games? The fan experience (the spaces, food, beverage, etc) is better than its ever been in the club’s history. For that I thank Shapiro and i’ll always be grateful.

 

But yes, the success of the actual team has been disappointing.

 

Shapiro should stay but he needs to bring in a new GM. If he doesn’t, then that’s a failure on him.

 

The Jays are not just a TOR team. They are a Canada wide National team and fan base. TV is a big part of their appeal and revenue. Ive seen kids in Pond Inlet Nunavut and Inuvik, NWT proudly wearing their Jays hats and jerseys. Thats why so many western fans invade SEA Jays games.

 

I go to the RC more than most non GTO based fans. Maybe average 10 or more games a year from Calgary, if I like the team and they are exciting.

 

I don't care much about the fan experience there off the field. Did I suffer at all in the 2015 playoffs Game 5 from the stadium fan experience? The s***** RC was shaking. Electric. I would go watch the Jays at Exhibition Stadium like I used to, if the on the field product was great. I havent drank for 22 years. I could give a s*** about all the new places to drink $15 beers. The food is still not great, even if improved. I'm just not there for the party.

 

When Shatkins came into the picture, I was excited but it never ever about stadium renos, and it still isn't for me. Rogers is a massive corp, and can rent other brains for stadium renovations, other than a baseball CEO. IF the product is not good, the new car smell will wear off the renos quickly in relative terms, and will be very quiet in 2-3 years. Lived exactly that reality in the late 90s.

 

I give Shapiro more baseball credit for the investments made in the development facilities they promoted so much, even though their development results are mediocre. There is tangible baseball logic in those investments and we all hope they pay off.

Edited May 5, 2024 by BigCecil

[BigCecil]

Thing is though they would have been contending for a playoff spot in 2003/2005/2006/2007 and 2008 so may have made different moves at the deadline and offseason.

 

From 2005 to 2009 they weirdly under-performed expected wins almost every year, I believe the run differential from 2005-2009 is better than the best 5 year run differential of AA or Shatkins.

 

Quality of the team from 2005 to 2010 (which was still basicaly Ricciardi's team) was good. With expanded playoffs it is pretty reasonable to say they squeak a few more wins out each year if they are playing for something the entire time... instead they were mostly 10 games behind Red Sox/Yankees/Rays most of the season.

 

Honestly, even if you loathed JPR, comparing his tenure results to the current luxury tax Jays in the wild card era is dumb.

[jaysblue]

JP's *best* team won 87 games and still likely wouldn't have made the playoffs a single time even with expanded playoffs. This doesn't really feel like an apples to apples comparison if you are going to legitimately say that JP had more success in his tenure as Blue Jays GM. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Yes, but if there was an expanded Wildcard like there is today, maybe the Jays under JPR make some more/different moves at the trade deadline in 2003, 2006, 2007 and 2008 or even during the offseason. Those were solid teams he put together. Also, factor in that decade the AL East pretty much was dominated by the Yankees and the Red Sox. It was like having the Dodgers & Braves in the same division.

 

I wouldn't say JPR had more success during his tenure than Atkins. I still prefer Atkins to JPR but at the end of the day I don't think there was much of a difference between the two. If Atkins gets the praise he does on here by some members, JPR shouldn't receive as much hate as he gets.

[jaysblue]

We will never know but The Big Contract was never JPR's strength

 

A few examples. More money, more BJ Ryans?

 

One of the Jays biggest contracts under Atkins - George Springer right now - doesn't look that good.

 

BJ Ryan was one of the best relievers in baseball at the time and had an awesome 2006 season. Sucks he got hurt. Came back in 2008 though not as awesome as he was in 2006 but still was solid. Not the best contract handed out, though if it was Ross Atkins who handed out that contract, I bet many members of his cult around here would say it's just bad luck.

 

AJ Burnett contract was great. Sucks he had the opt-out after 2008, but that turned out to be a great big contract signing.

 

I don't think JPR really had any other big contracts other than signing Vernon Wells to that big contract extension after his 2006 season. Wasn't the best and Wells had some disastrous seasons but that was market value for top players at the time. Frank Thomas was decent in his first season here, but was terrible afterwards. Atkins gave Morales a 3-year-contract so there haha. Corey Koskie signing was bad but he still put up a 1.7 WAR season and the Jays were able to move him to Milwaukee the following offseason.

 

As well at the time, Toronto wasn't a favourable spot for baseball players, so yes you would have to overpay by money and years to lure top FA's. Which is why they went 5 years with Burnett and Ryan in the 2005/2006 offseason or else the Jays likely don't sign either.

 

Off the top of my head, JPR made some swift trades during his tenure. For example, Glaus and Overbay in the 2005/2006 offseason. Traded Bobby Kielty for Ted Lilly after the 2003 season. Traded for Justin Speier after the 2003 season as well and was a solid late-inning reliever here for years. Traded Billy Koch for Eric Hinske. Traded Adam Peterson for Shea Hillenbrand who then was flipped for Jeremy Accardo. Traded Glaus after for Scott Rolen and then Rolen for EE haha. The one trade that came to bite them was trading Jayson Werth for Jason Frasor. As well early in his tenure traded away Paul Quantrill and Cesar Izturis for peanuts. Trying to think of some other moves.

Edited May 5, 2024 by jaysblue

[BatFlip]

One of the Jays biggest contracts under Atkins - George Springer right now - doesn't look that good.

 

BJ Ryan was one of the best relievers in baseball at the time and had an awesome 2006 season. Sucks he got hurt. Came back in 2008 though not as awesome as he was in 2006 but still was solid. Not the best contract handed out, though if it was Ross Atkins who handed out that contract, I bet many members of his cult around here would say it's just bad luck.

 

AJ Burnett contract was great. Sucks he had the opt-out after 2008, but that turned out to be a great big contract signing.

 

I don't think JPR really had any other big contracts other than signing Vernon Wells to that big contract extension after his 2006 season. Wasn't the best and Wells had some disastrous seasons but that was market value for top players at the time. Frank Thomas was decent in his first season here, but was terrible afterwards. Atkins gave Morales a 3-year-contract so there haha. Corey Koskie signing was bad but he still put up a 1.7 WAR season and the Jays were able to move him to Milwaukee the following offseason.

 

As well at the time, Toronto wasn't a favourable spot for baseball players, so yes you would have to overpay by money and years to lure top FA's. Which is why they went 5 years with Burnett and Ryan in the 2005/2006 offseason or else the Jays likely don't sign either.

 

Off the top of my head, JPR made some swift trades during his tenure. For example, Glaus and Overbay in the 2005/2006 offseason. Traded Bobby Kielty for Ted Lilly after the 2003 season. Traded for Justin Speier after the 2003 season as well and was a solid late-inning reliever here for years. Traded Billy Koch for Eric Hinske. Traded Adam Peterson for Shea Hillenbrand who then was flipped for Jeremy Accardo. Traded Glaus after for Scott Rolen and then Rolen for EE haha. The one trade that came to bite them was trading Jayson Werth for Jason Frasor. As well early in his tenure traded away Paul Quantrill and Cesar Izturis for peanuts. Trying to think of some other moves.

 

The BJ Ryan contract obviously didn't work out, but I still remember his first year in Toronto (2006) when he was absolutely dominant. The guy added so much swagger to that team.

[jaysblue]

The BJ Ryan contract obviously didn't work out, but I still remember his first year in Toronto (2006) when he was absolutely dominant. The guy added so much swagger to that team.

 

Coming out to Slipknot "Duality" was pretty awesome haha.

 

As well the new OF scoreboards would have flames as he was coming out of the pen. JPR did some renovations as well during his tenure haha.

[Brownie19]

don't use jays and dodgers in the same sentence - please.

 

Just pointing out what the best FO in baseball is doing with their former ace who's been sketchy in AAA also...

[connorp]

Coming out to Slipknot "Duality" was pretty awesome haha.

 

As well the new OF scoreboards would have flames as he was coming out of the pen. JPR did some renovations as well during his tenure haha.

 

Yeah, man. That first year he not only caught Tor’s attention, but really across mlb. Exciting stuff. Objectively, it’s a clear failure but it’s hard to not remember that year and at least in way hindsight, say f*** it, was worth the try. Bad luck on it

[Olerud363]

Yes, but if there was an expanded Wildcard like there is today, maybe the Jays under JPR make some more/different moves at the trade deadline in 2003, 2006, 2007 and 2008 or even during the offseason. Those were solid teams he put together. Also, factor in that decade the AL East pretty much was dominated by the Yankees and the Red Sox. It was like having the Dodgers & Braves in the same division.

 

I wouldn't say JPR had more success during his tenure than Atkins. I still prefer Atkins to JPR but at the end of the day I don't think there was much of a difference between the two. If Atkins gets the praise he does on here by some members, JPR shouldn't receive as much hate as he gets.

 

The quality of 2005-2010 teams was similar to the 2020-2023 teams in terms of run differential. Can't believe people don't get that if the 89th win was important (which it wasn't in that era) the team would have done much more to get the 89th win.

[hanton]

Just pointing out what the best FO in baseball is doing with their former ace who's been sketchy in AAA also...

 

Makes sense now

[BCZ]

Great Start for Manoah!

 

4IP 4BB 6ER 2HR - da playoffs will be ez to make!

[BCZ]

Tigers > Blue Jays - oops!

[BCZ]

Why am still watching these turds ???

[Sorrow]

BJ Ryan was the best reliever in baseball when he signed that contract. It was also Godfrey and Rogers that signed Wells not JPR. JPR was looking to trade him to the Dodgers.

[AMS528]

So this team is actually worse than it's record right?

 

As far as I can tell they're lucky to be only three games under .500.

 

With their offense they're lucky to not be in the bottom five so far.

 

Aside from an easier schedule is their any real performance related reason to be positive about the outlook for the season?

[Masterbather]

How many franchises are potentially in a worse situation than us? Very little in terms of prospects, a major league roster that needs rebuilding but doesn't have a single superstar to trade, which is rare usually a team coming off a couple of playoff appearances would have at least one superstar but we have none. There's guys that have value, but at this point we're getting pennies on the dollar for a lot of guys, so there's only so much we can look forward to even if we rebuild. There's really not a lot of teams in a more perilous spot.

[BTS]

How many franchises are potentially in a worse situation than us? Very little in terms of prospects, a major league roster that needs rebuilding but doesn't have a single superstar to trade, which is rare usually a team coming off a couple of playoff appearances would have at least one superstar but we have none. There's guys that have value, but at this point we're getting pennies on the dollar for a lot of guys, so there's only so much we can look forward to even if we rebuild. There's really not a lot of teams in a more perilous spot.

 

It doesn't look like a great situation, but they do have two things going for them: 1) nobody is signed past 2026 except Berrios, who would be traded anyway in a re-tool situation, and 2) ownership has shown a willingness to run a top-10 payroll.

 

Things could turn around pretty quickly with a 2-year rebuild. But Ross Atkins shouldn't be allowed to oversee it, because if things get to that point in a few months he has failed at his job.

[HomeRunHomer]

Trade Bo. Sign Soto.

[Spanky99]

So this team is actually worse than it's record right?

 

As far as I can tell they're lucky to be only three games under .500.

 

With their offense they're lucky to not be in the bottom five so far.

 

Aside from an easier schedule is their any real performance related reason to be positive about the outlook for the season?

 

Yes, 7 games under would be the Pythagorean record. On the latter, there's nothing but projections to hope for, lol.

[Spanky99]

It doesn't look like a great situation, but they do have two things going for them: 1) nobody is signed past 2026 except Berrios, who would be traded anyway in a re-tool situation, and 2) ownership has shown a willingness to run a top-10 payroll.

 

Things could turn around pretty quickly with a 2-year rebuild. But Ross Atkins shouldn't be allowed to oversee it, because if things get to that point in a few months he has failed at his job.

 

This was my point earlier today.

[gruber92]

This was my point earlier today.

 

So you now finally came to your senses and can see that a Ross lead team will not win a f***ing thing? There are a lot of people in here including myself that saw the writing on the wall over two years ago. I've been calling for his head for over three years now, oh well..

[MikeM3]

How many franchises are potentially in a worse situation than us? Very little in terms of prospects, a major league roster that needs rebuilding but doesn't have a single superstar to trade, which is rare usually a team coming off a couple of playoff appearances would have at least one superstar but we have none. There's guys that have value, but at this point we're getting pennies on the dollar for a lot of guys, so there's only so much we can look forward to even if we rebuild. There's really not a lot of teams in a more perilous spot.

 

I would trade cores with many of the perennial bottom feeders

[Spanky99]

So you now finally came to your senses and can see that a Ross lead team will not win a f***ing thing? There are a lot of people in here including myself that saw the writing on the wall over two years ago. I've been calling for his head for over three years now, oh well..

 

That's YP man, not MP.

[gruber92]

That's YP man, not MP.

 

Whatever the f*** that means. Why don't you just spell out what you want to say? Everybody has lost their minds.