General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Carlos Danger]

Why is there such a difference in WAR between say Fangraphs and Baseball Reference?

[Daniel Labude]

If we finished the game Wednesday we would be 0.5 games back of 1st, crazy

[Daniel Labude]

Why is there such a difference in WAR between say Fangraphs and Baseball Reference?

 

How they calculate defensive value and pitching value

[Brownie19]

Brownie19 is low key a top notch poster on these forums.

 

Why thank you kind sir. It's always nice to hear my contributions are appreciated.

[Orgfiller]

Why is there such a difference in WAR between say Fangraphs and Baseball Reference?

 

Main differences IIRC:

 

Offense:

fWAR uses wRC+ instead of OPS+ for bWAR, both highly correlated and tend to not differ by much, but 1 point of OBP > 1 point of SLG, so wRC+ is a better measure since it accounts for this

 

Defense:

bWAR uses DRS, fWAR uses OAA (I think, it used to be UZR) and incorporates catcher framing into their defense, bWAR does not.

 

Pitching:

bWAR uses runs allowed and tries to account for the defense behind the pitcher. fWAR uses FIP + infield fly balls (essentially treating them as strikeouts).

[BatFlip]

Brownie19 is low key a top notch poster on these forums.

 

I concur.

[Laika]

What a weird plot. Let's just plot out two highly correlated stats on different axes, that'll tell us a lot. Why not plot out like, whiff rate vs runs scored or ISO. This chart just tells you which systems put the ball in play a lot, but tells you nothing else about them.

 

Apparently this is just pitchers

 

Toronto's MiLB pitching is not good

[Omar]

Apparently this is just pitchers

 

Toronto's MiLB pitching is not good

 

yep.

[Omar]

Main differences IIRC:

 

Offense:

fWAR uses wRC+ instead of OPS+ for bWAR, both highly correlated and tend to not differ by much, but 1 point of OBP > 1 point of SLG, so wRC+ is a better measure since it accounts for this

 

Defense:

bWAR uses DRS, fWAR uses OAA (I think, it used to be UZR) and incorporates catcher framing into their defense, bWAR does not.

 

Pitching:

bWAR uses runs allowed and tries to account for the defense behind the pitcher. fWAR uses FIP + infield fly balls (essentially treating them as strikeouts).

 

 

Would now be a good time to go into the rabbit hole that is DRC+ ? Cause I think that is where people will start looking (eventually) for future performance indicators; especially if you fancy fantasy leagues or betting.

 

If you're into this kind of thing, here's an article right from the horses mouth:

 

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/45432/why-drc/

[G-Snarls]

Has this been brought up before?

 

Since 2003, outfielders with the most Defensive Runs Saved per 100 games in all of MLB:

 

1. Daulton Varsho

2. Kevin Kiermaier

[BaseballIsLife]

Mitch White to San Francisco.

[The_DH]

Mitch White to San Francisco.

 

Just saw it. What a bad acquisition.

[Masterbather]

Mitch White to San Francisco.

 

Good.

[HomeRunHomer]

The Jays certainly gave White more than enough opportunities. I won't miss him.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Green on the 15 day IL

 

f*** sakes

 

I wanna see super bullpen fully in tact

[jaysblue]

Why thank you kind sir. It's always nice to hear my contributions are appreciated.

 

You're a huge narcissist and one of the most insufferable posters on this board. I don't ever recall coming across a poster as annoying and insufferable as you since I joined this board in 2003.

[max silver]

You're a huge narcissist and one of the most insufferable posters on this board. I don't ever recall coming across a poster as annoying and insufferable as you since I joined this board in 2003.

 

You are one of the last posters who should be making accusations such as this one.

[G-Snarls]

Green on the 15 day IL

 

f*** sakes

 

I wanna see super bullpen fully in tact

 

Yes but having Pearson as his backup is pretty nice

[jaysblue]

You are one of the last posters who should be making accusations such as this one.

 

You're second and not too far behind him IMO.

[max silver]

You're second and not too far behind him IMO.

 

Look in the mirror man. You are so full of s*** it's literally astounding. You are a massive hypocrite. You pretend to be some sort of rational paragon of virtue, and complaining about other posters ruining the discussion by name calling and other assorted bad behavior. And then you instantly proceed to call another poster names including calling him a narcissist, seemingly because he's willing to call you out for s*** posts when necessary.

[jaysblue]

Look in the mirror man. You are so full of s*** it's literally astounding. You are a massive hypocrite. You pretend to be some sort of rational paragon of virtue, and complaining about other posters ruining the discussion by name calling and other assorted bad behavior. And then you instantly proceed to call another poster names including calling him a narcissist, seemingly because he's willing to call you out for s*** posts when necessary.

 

You need to look in the mirror yourself man. Calm down.

 

It's posters like you and Brownie who name call and insult others, insinuating that they're stupid and shouldn't talk baseball on this forum. Never saw posters like you both in over my 20 years on this board.

[jaysblue]

Yes but having Pearson as his backup is pretty nice

 

Jays bullpen should be fine even without Green. Pearson this season so far has looked fantastic.

[Dick_Pole]

So, too early to say that this team is pretty good, warts and all? They are winning games exactly how they are supposed to be winning them. 12-9, -13 run differential. By the time they get to positive run differential they might be leading the division.

[Eat My Shatkins]

If the starters hold up this team will be tough to beat.

 

Berrios and Kikuchi have never looked better. Yariel looks like he's for real. Bassitt is Bassitt, and once Gausman gets fully up to speed he's the best of the bunch more than likely.

[Spanky99]

You're a huge narcissist and one of the most insufferable posters on this board. I don't ever recall coming across a poster as annoying and insufferable as you since I joined this board in 2003.

 

Pot meet Kettle.

[Masterbather]

So, too early to say that this team is pretty good, warts and all? They are winning games exactly how they are supposed to be winning them. 12-9, -13 run differential. By the time they get to positive run differential they might be leading the division.

 

I think everything is going pretty much as most expected in general. Pitching mostly pretty good, hitting meh. Brutal division. Gausman is due to rise, Berrios due for a correction in the opposite direction.

 

Kuch is an X-factor, he's got ace potential, but he's got to prove it over a full season. Yariel is another X-factor, is he just a guy or something more? No real surprises otherwise, except maybe Varsho being on a heater, I have no idea if that means anything yet.

[burlingtonbandit]

So, too early to say that this team is pretty good, warts and all? They are winning games exactly how they are supposed to be winning them. 12-9, -13 run differential. By the time they get to positive run differential they might be leading the division.

 

If the rotation can stay healthy they should be a mid to high 80 win team and you would hope they can acquire a bat or 2 at the deadline. But the rotation depth has evaporated pretty quickly from what it looked like heading into the season.

 

I’m interested to see if the ball starts carrying more at Roger’s centre when the roof is open because so far balls are just dying in the outfield.

[Spanky99]

Why is there such a difference in WAR between say Fangraphs and Baseball Reference?

 

I prefer using fWAR for bats and D, bWAR for pitchers.

[BTS]

Varsho is leading the majors in DRS, one behind Semien in OAA

[Brownie19]

You're a huge narcissist and I one of the most insufferable posters on this board. I don't ever recall coming across a poster as annoying and insufferable as you since I joined this board in 2003.

 

What is wrong with you? A well respected member praises me out of the goodness of his heart. I acknowledge it and you decide to attack me for no reason? I may challenge you and others but I always try to explain my position like a civilized person.

 

I've been posting here regularly since 2013 (I believe) and only recognize you from the past 3-4 years. What happened in your life to make you the way you are?

Edited April 22, 2024 by Brownie19