General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[BCZ]

Maybe in powerlifting that works but this is baseball which relies on the functional strength necessary to perform baseball moves. This includes a lot of various factors like proper mechanics, flexibility, general athleticism, etc. Gaining 40+ pounds is going to affect all of that stuff negatively.

 

Also, let's not pretend like Manoah lost so much weight that he's now skinny. The dude is still very chunky. Probably even considered obese on the BMI scale. He's just not shockingly fat anymore.

 

And finally, we saw what the all-powerful fat f*** version of Manoah could do and it was abysmal. He might as well try a season while having shed significant weight.

 

Maybe. Let's see what happens.

[Stangstag]

Manoah has turned back the clock

 

Also heard that Mitch White is touching 99 and has been fooling around with Gausman's splitter...

 

NO way I heard Mitch White is terrible and not worth a roster spot

[keggy]

Greg Maddux should've eaten hot dogs like Kirk. He would have thrown 99+ and gone down as the greatest pitcher of all time.

[Stangstag]

Greg Maddux should've eaten hot dogs like Kirk. He would have thrown 99+ and gone down as the greatest pitcher of all time.

 

Spencer Strider should bulk up some more, fill out that upper half

[keggy]

Spencer Strider should bulk up some more, fill out that upper half

 

Pedro threw 99 without performance-enhancing fat. How much harder would he throw if he were obese? 105?

[Laika]

<<<

Keegan Matheson

@KeeganMatheson

·

4m

The biggest takeaway from #BlueJays GM Ross Atkins:

 

“At this point, additions that would be of significance would mean some level of subtraction.”

 

He added: “Now it makes more sense, operationally for us, if we consider an addition, that we should be subtracting.”>>>

 

 

Not news but it does align with what most of us here have recently been talking about, with regards to trimming some salary if Chapman or Bellinger come begging for a pillow deal.

 

He might also be talking about options and available roster space, though.

[Stangstag]

<<<

Keegan Matheson

@KeeganMatheson

·

4m

The biggest takeaway from #BlueJays GM Ross Atkins:

 

“At this point, additions that would be of significance would mean some level of subtraction.”

 

He added: “Now it makes more sense, operationally for us, if we consider an addition, that we should be subtracting.”>>>

 

 

Not news but it does align with what most of us here have recently been talking about, with regards to trimming some salary if Chapman or Bellinger come begging for a pillow deal.

 

He might also be talking about options and available roster space, though.

 

Boring

[deanmike]

<<<

Keegan Matheson

@KeeganMatheson

·

4m

The biggest takeaway from #BlueJays GM Ross Atkins:

 

“At this point, additions that would be of significance would mean some level of subtraction.”

 

He added: “Now it makes more sense, operationally for us, if we consider an addition, that we should be subtracting.”>>>

 

 

Not news but it does align with what most of us here have recently been talking about, with regards to trimming some salary if Chapman or Bellinger come begging for a pillow deal.

 

He might also be talking about options and available roster space, though.

 

You wish Laila. We have optionable pieces on the projected 26-man right now and fringe 40-man guys to DFA if needed.

 

We all know it's in regards to AAV trimming. Except for the unrealistic optimists who were trying to tell me I don't know s***.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Love this time of year! Spring is coming, baseball season is just around the corner, good times.

 

So many intriguing arms to watch with the Jays through spring training.

 

Manoah with less fat, will he bounce back?

Mitch White trying to build off his really strong AAA finish last year.

Tiedemann, one of the most intriguing SP prospects in all of baseball.

Just signed Yariel, what's he gonna bring to the table?

 

Can't wait to see how it all shakes out.

[Terminator]

<<<

Keegan Matheson

@KeeganMatheson

·

4m

The biggest takeaway from #BlueJays GM Ross Atkins:

 

“At this point, additions that would be of significance would mean some level of subtraction.”

 

He added: “Now it makes more sense, operationally for us, if we consider an addition, that we should be subtracting.”>>>

 

 

Not news but it does align with what most of us here have recently been talking about, with regards to trimming some salary if Chapman or Bellinger come begging for a pillow deal.

 

He might also be talking about options and available roster space, though.

 

I had to read that 4 times to understand what he was talking about.

 

At first I thought he was simply talking about trades. Well no s*** you have to add and subtract when trading.

 

But he's talking about if we make an addition by signing someone of significance then we will have to make a subtraction by trading someone else.

[L54]

<<<

Keegan Matheson

@KeeganMatheson

·

4m

The biggest takeaway from #BlueJays GM Ross Atkins:

 

“At this point, additions that would be of significance would mean some level of subtraction.”

 

He added: “Now it makes more sense, operationally for us, if we consider an addition, that we should be subtracting.”>>>

 

 

Not news but it does align with what most of us here have recently been talking about, with regards to trimming some salary if Chapman or Bellinger come begging for a pillow deal.

 

He might also be talking about options and available roster space, though.

 

So basically what deaner has been saying all along that there wasn’t a break in case of emergency piggy bank

 

Dean deserves an apology from some of you

[L54]

I understand your point, people who try to trim too aggressively would lose muscle

 

But he could probably gain effective power or arm speed, or stamina, by losing some of the mass / body fat. Think relative strength.

 

You can lose weight and lose absolute strength (you bench less) while gaining relative strength (you can do more pushups)

 

Or at least return his mechanics to what they used to be when he weighed 40 lbs less

 

Truth

[L54]

Does Manoah need more power? Not sure why that’s the concern

[wilko]

Does Manoah need more power? Not sure why that’s the concern

 

Fat translates to power. Look at CC, Bartolo, Boomer, Broxton, Cecil/Price Fielder, Dimitri Young. They all excelled with fatness. If anything Manoah should have embraced the weight and put more on over the offseason.

Imagine what he could do at 6 foot 6, 375lbs! 400!!!

[Terminator]

So basically what deaner has been saying all along that there wasn’t a break in case of emergency piggy bank

 

Dean deserves an apology from some of you

 

Isn't trading some of Yimi Garcia, Richards, Espinal and Biggio the "break in case of emergency piggy bank"?

[connorp]

I wonder if another team would take on 50% of IKF’s deal to shed payroll

[wamco]

Loving the mod edit on this one lol

 

IKF can be a backup cf in 2025 when kk is gone. Helps cover there

[deanmike]

Isn't trading some of Yimi Garcia, Richards, Espinal and Biggio the "break in case of emergency piggy bank"?

 

Nope. I've been told all offseason by the unrealistic optimists that for the right player at the right price they believed ownership would authorize the 2nd threshold before the season even starts. Shedding those guys would be moves to help remain just under the 2nd threshold.

 

Also semi-related, thoughts on the Jays potentially subtracting some of those guys to maybe give Bellinger a 20M AAV deal with term? Passan was saying they might still be in on him.

[wamco]

Dean just dunking on fools at this point

[Laika]

Nope. I've been told all offseason by the unrealistic optimists that for the right player at the right price they believed ownership would authorize the 2nd threshold before the season even starts. Shedding those guys would be moves to help remain just under the 2nd threshold.

 

Also semi-related, thoughts on the Jays potentially subtracting some of those guys to maybe give Bellinger a 20M AAV deal with term? Passan was saying they might still be in on him.

 

But that was always true and the Ohtani stuff basically proves it

 

There are only a few dorks like JimCanuk who think that Cody Bellinger is "the right player" though

 

Everyone realizes that even if Chapman is available on a pillow they probably dump a bit of payroll in the process, somehow

[Terminator]

Nope. I've been told all offseason by the unrealistic optimists that for the right player at the right price they believed ownership would authorize the 2nd threshold before the season even starts. Shedding those guys would be moves to help remain just under the 2nd threshold.

 

Also semi-related, thoughts on the Jays potentially subtracting some of those guys to maybe give Bellinger a 20M AAV deal with term? Passan was saying they might still be in on him.

 

Ok I haven't exactly been following this discussion that closely but I see what you are saying and you are probably technically right. But it's kind of splitting hairs as:

 

1) The Jays could still authorize the second threshold for a certain player but Chapman or Belly don't fit that criteria. Heck, we know this is true because they approved the 700M Ohtani deal.

2) Trading Espinal and Richards (the last guy on the bench and bullpen) isn't exactly that hard or that big of a deal to do. And that would allow us to add Chapman or Bellinger and be under the 2nd threshold, right?

 

Plus, you have to take everything Atkins says with a grain of salt because he is probably actively trying to get bottom dollar prices on remaining free agents. He'll never say something like, "Oh yeah we can go above the 2nd threshold it's no problem."

 

In addition, is not going above the 2nd threshold a hard rule? I believe going above the 2nd threshold only increases the amount of payroll that is actually ABOVE the 2nd threshold right? So if Atkins signals we aren't going above the 2nd threshold does he mean we aren't going "materially" above the second threshold? And being 1 or 2 mil over is no big deal? Or does he literally mean we aren't going above the 2nd threshold by one penny? There's a difference there.

[Laika]

Ok I haven't exactly been following this discussion that closely but I see what you are saying and you are probably technically right. But it's kind of splitting hairs as:

 

1) The Jays could still authorize the second threshold for a certain player but Chapman or Belly don't fit that criteria. Heck, we know this is true because they approved the 700M Ohtani deal.

2) Trading Espinal and Richards (the last guy on the bench and bullpen) isn't exactly that hard or that big of a deal to do. And that would allow us to add Chapman or Bellinger, right?

 

Plus, you have to take everything Atkins says with a grain of salt because he is probably actively trying to get bottom dollar prices on remaining free agents. He'll never say something like, "Oh yeah we can go above the 2nd threshold it's no problem."

 

In addition, is not going above the 2nd threshold a hard rule? I believe going above the 2nd threshold only increases the amount of payroll that is actually ABOVE the 2nd threshold right? So if Atkins signals we aren't going above the 2nd threshold does he mean we aren't going "materially" above the second threshold? And being 1 or 2 mil over is no big deal? Or does he literally mean we aren't going above the 2nd threshold by one penny? There's a difference there.

 

careful man, dean knows things and there are several dean stans at this point

[L54]

Atkins the Ninja

 

Sorry IKF, best I can do is a two year deal for 14M

[Eat My Shatkins]

Just because the Jays won't break the bank for players like Chapman and Bellinger doesn't mean they have a limited budget.

[L54]

Just because the Jays won't break the bank for players like Chapman and Bellinger doesn't mean they have a limited budget.

 

Well I mean obviously. Things would look a lot different if Ohtani was here as an example

[Terminator]

Atkins the Ninja

 

Sorry IKF, best I can do is a two year deal for 14M

 

^I think IKF is a huge part of what this whole 2nd threshold argument/payroll discussion is about.

 

Atkins haters want to pile on Atkins for signing IKF because they think it ate up payroll and is precluding the team from making better and more impactful moves. The Atkins lovers want to protect their boy Atkins by saying that the IKF signing isn't stopping the team from doing what they want otherwise.

 

I lean more toward the latter as we have spent more money than people think this offseason (2nd most amount of money spent in the AL after the Royals lol). It's just a weak FA class and the team isn't that high on giving big deals to Chapman or Bellinger. I can't say I really blame them. They project to be 2.5 WAR players next year and want to get paid Springer money who was projecting as a 4-WAR player at the time we signed him.

 

No matter how you slice it though, it's been an uninspiring offseason. (Though it's not over yet!)

[L54]

^I think IKF is a huge part of what this whole 2nd threshold argument/payroll discussion is about.

 

Atkins haters want to pile on Atkins for signing IKF because they think it ate up payroll and is precluding the team from making better and more impactful moves. The Atkins lovers want to protect their boy Atkins by saying that the IKF signing isn't stopping the team from doing what they want otherwise.

 

I lean more toward the latter as we have spent more money than people think this offseason (2nd most amount of money spent in the AL after the Royals lol). It's just a weak FA class and the team isn't that high on giving big deals to Chapman or Bellinger. I can't say I really blame them. They project to be 2.5 WAR players next year and want to get paid Springer money who was projecting as a 4-WAR player at the time we signed him.

 

No matter how you slice it though, it's been an uninspiring offseason. (Though it's not over yet!)

 

I don’t even know what we are all arguing about at this point

 

Best case Ontario is they get Chapman for one year and see what happens

 

IKF would be an excellent super utility player

 

I’m just happy it’s almost time for baseball

[G-Snarls]

Best case Ontario is they get Chapman for one year and see what happens

 

IKF would be an excellent super utility player

 

 

Yes and yes. Barring a trade out of nowhere this seems like the most sensical thing to do if you can pull it off. Chapman on a 1 year deal would be fantastic at this point.

 

Then look to make a trade at the deadline if needed at that point

[wamco]

So we’re signing Chapman (who was dreaming of a huge deal for some reason) and votto and trading espinal and demoting Horwitz

[Daniel Labude]

Some interesting quotes today