GDT: 2/3 Chicago Cubs @ Toronto Blue Jays (Saturday 3:07 ET) Jose Bautista day!!!

[Stangstag]

You're one of the most stubborn and insufferable posters on this message board. In all of my history on this board, never came across anyone as insufferable as you, and you're not even a troll. Any criticism I make, you get triggered so easily. Can't even have a reasonable conversation with you because you're always wearing blinders and come up with excuses nonstop. Atkins can do no wrong in your view no matter what he does. Arguing with you is pointless because these discussions go nowhere. I'm done with you, Metafour, MaxSilver, and Stangstag when it comes to Atkins and this front office. You guys should keep sipping on your Wilner kool aid!

 

Im not an Atkins knob-gobbler you dumb f***. I’ve been saying I want him gone

[Terminator]

They definitely failed because they didn't even make the Postseason in 2021.

 

Coming out of a rebuilding phase (because AA left them an old expensive team which is fine, but still), the FO:

-Signed George Springer

-Signed Semien who hit 45 bombs

-Signed Robbie Ray who won the Cy Young

-Traded for Matz who put up 3 WAR

-Made one of the biggest trades at the deadline for Berrios

 

As for the bullpen specifically, they chose to spend most of their capital on the above. They did make the following bullpen moves though:

-Traded the corpse of Joe Panik for Adam Cimber (1.79 ERA in 37 innings) and Corey Dickerson (slashed .282/.329/.450 for us). I still don't know how Atkins did this.

-Traded Tellez for Richards who put up 3.30 WAR in over 30 innings. Francis was also a part of that deal and has been a nifty bullpen piece for us this year.

-They also signed Kirby Yates (probably the only one on this list who they invested significant capital in to) who didn't pan out, Tyler Chatwood who didn't pan out and David Phelps who gave us a good 10 innings before contributing more the next year.

-Trades for Brad Hand and Soria who didn't work out.

 

That team had a run differential of +183 and a pytho W-L of 99-63.

 

"ROSS ATKINS FAILED. THEY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS" lmao

[Laika]

Coming out of a rebuilding phase (because AA left them an old expensive team which is fine, but still), the FO:

-Signed George Springer

-Signed Semien who hit 45 bombs

-Signed Robbie Ray who won the Cy Young

-Traded for Matz who put up 3 WAR

-Made one of the biggest trades at the deadline for Berrios

 

As for the bullpen specifically, they chose to spend most of their capital on the above. They did make the following bullpen moves though:

-Traded the corpse of Joe Panik for Adam Cimber (1.79 ERA in 37 innings) and Corey Dickerson (slashed .282/.329/.450 for us). I still don't know how Atkins did this.

-Traded Tellez for Richards who put up 3.30 WAR in over 30 innings. Francis was also a part of that deal and has been a nifty bullpen piece for us this year.

-They also signed Kirby Yates (probably the only one on this list who they invested significant capital in to) who didn't pan out, Tyler Chatwood who didn't pan out and David Phelps who gave us a good 10 innings before contributing more the next year.

-Trades for Brad Hand and Soria who didn't work out.

 

That team had a run differential of +183 and a pytho W-L of 99-63.

 

"ROSS ATKINS FAILED. THEY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS" lmao

 

destroyed.

[Olerud363]

You're one of the most stubborn and insufferable posters on this message board. In all of my history on this board, never came across anyone as insufferable as you, and you're not even a troll. Any criticism I make, you get triggered so easily. Can't even have a reasonable conversation with you because you're always wearing blinders and come up with excuses nonstop. Atkins can do no wrong in your view no matter what he does. Arguing with you is pointless because these discussions go nowhere. I'm done with you, Metafour, MaxSilver, and Stangstag when it comes to Atkins and this front office. You guys should keep sipping on your Wilner kool aid!

 

Tough one here. Jays bullpen isn't bad actually but watching the Orioles develop guys out of no where while Atkins trades 2 good pitching prospects for Hicks make you think...

 

Anyone doubting that this is just some fluke or luck on the Orioles part should be watching the Fujinami situation. He throws 104. He was free. He has had some dominant outings for the Orioles. He has had some catastrophic outings, like walking and hitting everyone. He is terrible, then the Orioles throw him back out there 2 days later in tight leverage.

 

Fujinami may fail, he may become another Bautista, but this is the Orioles process. It isn't fluke. What they are doing is above and beyond anything ever seen.

[Orgfiller]

Tough one here. Jays bullpen isn't bad actually but watching the Orioles develop guys out of no where while Atkins trades 2 good pitching prospects for Hicks make you think...

 

Anyone doubting that this is just some fluke or luck on the Orioles part should be watching the Fujinami situation. He throws 104. He was free. He has had some dominant outings for the Orioles. He has had some catastrophic outings, like walking and hitting everyone. He is terrible, then the Orioles throw him back out there 2 days later in tight leverage.

 

Fujinami may fail, he may become another Bautista, but this is the Orioles process. It isn't fluke. What they are doing is above and beyond anything ever seen.

 

LOL @ anything ever seen. Did the Yankees and Rays of the last 10 years not exist? Those teams have routinely gotten elite relievers for scraps (Clay Holmes, Pete Fairbanks, Nick Anderson, Jason Adam, etc.).

[Laika]

The O's pulled like, two rabbits out of their ass. Let's simmer down.

 

Baker and Cionel Perez both kind of lost it on them this year. Relievers are fickle.

 

Bautista looks like a found stud but Cano could be a pumpkin next year.

[Brownie19]

The O's pulled like, two rabbits out of their ass. Let's simmer down.

 

Baker and Cionel Perez both kind of lost it on them this year. Relievers are fickle.

 

Bautista looks like a found stud but Cano could be a pumpkin next year.

 

Absolutely. Cano isn't even striking out a batter an inning this year and hasn't been dominant since the end of May (although he's been better as of late).

[Stangstag]

Coming out of a rebuilding phase (because AA left them an old expensive team which is fine, but still), the FO:

-Signed George Springer

-Signed Semien who hit 45 bombs

-Signed Robbie Ray who won the Cy Young

-Traded for Matz who put up 3 WAR

-Made one of the biggest trades at the deadline for Berrios

 

As for the bullpen specifically, they chose to spend most of their capital on the above. They did make the following bullpen moves though:

-Traded the corpse of Joe Panik for Adam Cimber (1.79 ERA in 37 innings) and Corey Dickerson (slashed .282/.329/.450 for us). I still don't know how Atkins did this.

-Traded Tellez for Richards who put up 3.30 WAR in over 30 innings. Francis was also a part of that deal and has been a nifty bullpen piece for us this year.

-They also signed Kirby Yates (probably the only one on this list who they invested significant capital in to) who didn't pan out, Tyler Chatwood who didn't pan out and David Phelps who gave us a good 10 innings before contributing more the next year.

-Trades for Brad Hand and Soria who didn't work out.

 

That team had a run differential of +183 and a pytho W-L of 99-63.

 

"ROSS ATKINS FAILED. THEY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS" lmao

 

Rekt

[jaysblue]

Coming out of a rebuilding phase (because AA left them an old expensive team which is fine, but still), the FO:

-Signed George Springer

-Signed Semien who hit 45 bombs

-Signed Robbie Ray who won the Cy Young

-Traded for Matz who put up 3 WAR

-Made one of the biggest trades at the deadline for Berrios

 

As for the bullpen specifically, they chose to spend most of their capital on the above. They did make the following bullpen moves though:

-Traded the corpse of Joe Panik for Adam Cimber (1.79 ERA in 37 innings) and Corey Dickerson (slashed .282/.329/.450 for us). I still don't know how Atkins did this.

-Traded Tellez for Richards who put up 3.30 WAR in over 30 innings. Francis was also a part of that deal and has been a nifty bullpen piece for us this year.

-They also signed Kirby Yates (probably the only one on this list who they invested significant capital in to) who didn't pan out, Tyler Chatwood who didn't pan out and David Phelps who gave us a good 10 innings before contributing more the next year.

-Trades for Brad Hand and Soria who didn't work out.

 

That team had a run differential of +183 and a pytho W-L of 99-63.

 

"ROSS ATKINS FAILED. THEY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS" lmao

 

AA left them with an old expensive team? What do you think Atkins will leave the next GM once he leaves lmao? Atkins has signed some big contracts as well and some of those right now aren't looking like they will age well.

 

It's hilarious how so many of you s*** over AA while he was here. He was a far superior GM and baseball mind during his tenure with the Jays than Atkins has been so far. This Atkins core hasn't even won a Postseason game. There is still 2023, 2024 and 2025 so yeah Atkins still has time and if the Jays win a World Series during that time, Atkins will go down as one of the best GMs next to Pat Gillick for sure. So far though, it's been mediocre results.

 

Also, how is the current farm system for the Jays? All I heard at the trade deadline was the Jays don't have the pieces to pull this trade or that trade off. As well, you were having a stroke when I suggested the Jays look at Arenado as their long term 3B solution, saying the Jays already are near their payroll threshold. So yeah, Atkins hasn't put together an expensive team. Give me a break.

 

Where did I ever say anything bad about those contracts handed out by Atkins? Again because I question a couple decisions or things the front office has done, I get painted by Brownie19 as someone who thinks everything Atkins does is bad lol. I praised Atkins on the Ray, Matz, Semien signings, and even the Berrios trade. I was also one of the few posters on here last season who said I wouldn't give up on Berrios right yet, when a lot of posters on here were jumping ship after his disastrous 2022 season. Go look it up.

 

All I said was the Jays had an amazing window in 2021 to do something special and that it was frustrating the team never made the Postseason and took advantage of that opportunity. What is wrong with that? Could have Atkins solidified the roster more in 2021 - yes he could have. And yes missing out the Postseason by one game because the FO failed to make a couple more upgrades is disappointing. The 2021 team was probably the best on paper and had the best opportunity to go to a World Series.

[jaysblue]

Rekt

 

You're going to be Rekt in a couple of minutes when I pull up one of your old posts about the 2021 team haha

[jaysblue]

destroyed.

 

Again, responding to your comment that they did go for it in 2021. If they did, and missed the Postseason by one game, isn't that a disappointing result? Sorry maybe I shouldn't use the word "fail" as that was harsh. But yeah when all was said and done the Jays didn't get to the Postseason in 2021 after going for it!

[metafour]

Damn bro stop triggering everyone here. We're just trying to have a good time by simping for this front office, and you have to keep rekting and triggering .

[Laika]

Again, responding to your comment that they did go for it in 2021. If they did, and missed the Postseason by one game, isn't that a disappointing result? Sorry maybe I shouldn't use the word "fail" as that was harsh. But yeah when all was said and done the Jays didn't get to the Postseason in 2021 after going for it!

 

It's fine to be upset or disappointed that they did not make it in 2021

 

It is not fine or reasonable to criticize the FO for "not going for it" or "failing" or whatever your broader point is or was

[Stangstag]

You're going to be Rekt in a couple of minutes when I pull up one of your old posts about the 2021 team haha

 

Pathetic

[Olerud363]

LOL @ anything ever seen. Did the Yankees and Rays of the last 10 years not exist? Those teams have routinely gotten elite relievers for scraps (Clay Holmes, Pete Fairbanks, Nick Anderson, Jason Adam, etc.).

 

"anything ever seen". I'm not referring to the result of their bullpen, just the Fujinami experiment and their dedication to the process. It may blow up on them, but neither the Yankees nor the Rays of the last 10 years would throw a guy like Fujinami into leverage.

 

I believe Fujinami hit 2 and walked 1 in Toronto, a few days later was thrown into a 2-0 game and pitched a clean inning, next game walked 3 and was horrible, next game was in to get a save with a clean inning.

 

Like I am sure if some guy with Fuji's walk rate and 8.00 ERA was Toronto's big acquisition and put into leverage the fans would go nuts.

 

Who will have better numbers at the end of the year (for their new teams) Fuji or Hicks? It's random I guess, just 20 reliever innings.

[Olerud363]

The O's pulled like, two rabbits out of their ass. Let's simmer down.

 

Baker and Cionel Perez both kind of lost it on them this year. Relievers are fickle.

 

Bautista looks like a found stud but Cano could be a pumpkin next year.

 

I'm not referring to just the bullpen when I say the Orioles are 'like nothing every seen".

 

Perhaps I'm being a bit dramatic... however you rarely see a team with this kind of dedication to their internal evaluations

 

Another example is that they just sent Tyler Wells down for a couple of weeks when he was 8-7 3.80. His fWAR and peripherals were shake though and he needed to work on things.

 

You rarely see a guy having those kinds of classical stats sent down.

[Olerud363]

The O's pulled like, two rabbits out of their ass. Let's simmer down.

 

Baker and Cionel Perez both kind of lost it on them this year. Relievers are fickle.

 

Bautista looks like a found stud but Cano could be a pumpkin next year.

 

And remember how they pulled the one rabbit -- traded their closer last year when they were on the verge of contention

 

How many teams would do that when at the time 2 or 3 games out of a WC.

 

Not "the best performance ever seen" (need to wait 5 years to see what happens) but moves for better or worse are rarely seen.

[Terminator]

AA left them with an old expensive team? What do you think Atkins will leave the next GM once he leaves lmao? Atkins has signed some big contracts as well and some of those right now aren't looking like they will age well.

 

It's hilarious how so many of you s*** over AA while he was here. He was a far superior GM and baseball mind during his tenure with the Jays than Atkins has been so far. This Atkins core hasn't even won a Postseason game. There is still 2023, 2024 and 2025 so yeah Atkins still has time and if the Jays win a World Series during that time, Atkins will go down as one of the best GMs next to Pat Gillick for sure. So far though, it's been mediocre results.

 

Also, how is the current farm system for the Jays? All I heard at the trade deadline was the Jays don't have the pieces to pull this trade or that trade off. As well, you were having a stroke when I suggested the Jays look at Arenado as their long term 3B solution, saying the Jays already are near their payroll threshold. So yeah, Atkins hasn't put together an expensive team. Give me a break.

 

Where did I ever say anything bad about those contracts handed out by Atkins? Again because I question a couple decisions or things the front office has done, I get painted by Brownie19 as someone who thinks everything Atkins does is bad lol. I praised Atkins on the Ray, Matz, Semien signings, and even the Berrios trade. I was also one of the few posters on here last season who said I wouldn't give up on Berrios right yet, when a lot of posters on here were jumping ship after his disastrous 2022 season. Go look it up.

 

All I said was the Jays had an amazing window in 2021 to do something special and that it was frustrating the team never made the Postseason and took advantage of that opportunity. What is wrong with that? Could have Atkins solidified the roster more in 2021 - yes he could have. And yes missing out the Postseason by one game because the FO failed to make a couple more upgrades is disappointing. The 2021 team was probably the best on paper and had the best opportunity to go to a World Series.

 

I never said I don't like AA. I even said "which is fine, but still" because I didn't want to get into an argument over AA. I thought he did a solid job. I will forever be grateful to him for ending the playoff drought. That was a rough 20 years. But that 2015 team was not set up for long term success, hence the "which is fine, but still." It had a 2 year window and that's it. AA then went to the Dodgers and has seemingly changed his philosophy a bit and then landed in a very good situation in Atlanta. He's doing a great job there.

 

My larger point was that you are harping on how bad Atkins f***ed up 2021 because he didn't address the bullpen. He did. And on top of it he added a 45 homer 2B, a Cy Young winner, George Springer, and a couple of 3 WAR starting pitchers. That's one of the most monumentally brilliant seasons that a GM has had in the past decade. It might be the best in franchise history though I'm sure Pat Gillick had a couple as well.

 

And on top of it, unlike what AA did here (who again I like), Atkins has built this team with a far larger window. The 2015-2016 teams had two years and that's it. With Atkins we made the Covid playoffs in 2020 (for whatever that is worth), missed out on the final day of the season in 2021, made it last year in 2022 and the team is in prime shape to make it again in 2023. Next year and 2025 look like good bets as well. The franchise is in good shape.

[Orgfiller]

I'm not referring to just the bullpen when I say the Orioles are 'like nothing every seen".

 

Perhaps I'm being a bit dramatic... however you rarely see a team with this kind of dedication to their internal evaluations

 

Another example is that they just sent Tyler Wells down for a couple of weeks when he was 8-7 3.80. His fWAR and peripherals were shake though and he needed to work on things.

 

You rarely see a guy having those kinds of classical stats sent down.

 

The Jays have been dicking around Bowden Francis despite a shiny ERA in the MLB and dominating AAA. Optionable mediocre arms exist in every single team across the league. Tyler Wells sucks, lol @ bringing up his W-L record.

 

There's nothing innovative that they're doing. Sure maybe their process these days is good, but it's not like "anything ever seen". In fact it's seen pretty routinely in their own division alone.

[Orgfiller]

Shintaro Fujinami is actively losing games for the Orioles by being put into high leverage while sucking and knowing that he sucks and you have Olerud over here making it seem like this is a 200 IQ genius move by the Orioles.

[Orgfiller]

Like "anything ever seen", from the same team who left a historically great season from Zack Britton rotting in the bullpen while mediocre arm Ubaldo Jimenez faces and promptly gives up a walkoff bomb to a great hitter, less than 10 years ago. I for one hope we face the Orioles in the playoffs and those geniuses put Shintaro Fujinami in a tied game in the 10th inning.

[metafour]

Shintaro Fujinami is actively losing games for the Orioles by being put into high leverage while sucking and knowing that he sucks and you have Olerud over here making it seem like this is a 200 IQ genius move by the Orioles.

 

The last few games he is referring to in which Fujinami pitched included one blow-out win for Baltimore, one game that went into the 10th inning, and I think in all of the games being referred to the Orioles used 4-5 relievers. I'm not sure if their starter went over 5 IP in any of those games that Fujinami pitched in.

 

He's making it sound like they're bringing Fujinami into the 8th inning of a 1-run game after the starter pitched 7 innings. No, they're bringing him in to pitch in blowout wins, or in games wherein they literally have no choice. Just like any other team in the league would treat a wild reliever they're hoping to "develop". The extra-inning save he recorded against the Mariners was a game wherein Bautista wasn't even available to pitch.

 

Really ground-breaking stuff by the Orioles. The Jays literally used Nate Pearson in some high-leverage situations just a few short weeks ago.

[BTS]

My god I can't wait for Dean Kremer and Kyle Gibson to get caved in the playoffs.

[L54]

Jays Blue your posts are too long. Do you guys even read them? I like posts that are concise and to the point

[Stangstag]

Jays Blue your posts are too long. Do you guys even read them? I like posts that are concise and to the point

 

Why use many word when less word do trick

[Brownie19]

And remember how they pulled the one rabbit -- traded their closer last year when they were on the verge of contention

 

How many teams would do that when at the time 2 or 3 games out of a WC.

 

Not "the best performance ever seen" (need to wait 5 years to see what happens) but moves for better or worse are rarely seen.

 

Seattle just did the same thing at this years deadline...

[Spanky99]

AA left them with an old expensive team? What do you think Atkins will leave the next GM once he leaves lmao? Atkins has signed some big contracts as well and some of those right now aren't looking like they will age well.

 

It's hilarious how so many of you s*** over AA while he was here. He was a far superior GM and baseball mind during his tenure with the Jays than Atkins has been so far. This Atkins core hasn't even won a Postseason game. There is still 2023, 2024 and 2025 so yeah Atkins still has time and if the Jays win a World Series during that time, Atkins will go down as one of the best GMs next to Pat Gillick for sure. So far though, it's been mediocre results.

 

Also, how is the current farm system for the Jays? All I heard at the trade deadline was the Jays don't have the pieces to pull this trade or that trade off. As well, you were having a stroke when I suggested the Jays look at Arenado as their long term 3B solution, saying the Jays already are near their payroll threshold. So yeah, Atkins hasn't put together an expensive team. Give me a break.

 

Where did I ever say anything bad about those contracts handed out by Atkins? Again because I question a couple decisions or things the front office has done, I get painted by Brownie19 as someone who thinks everything Atkins does is bad lol. I praised Atkins on the Ray, Matz, Semien signings, and even the Berrios trade. I was also one of the few posters on here last season who said I wouldn't give up on Berrios right yet, when a lot of posters on here were jumping ship after his disastrous 2022 season. Go look it up.

 

All I said was the Jays had an amazing window in 2021 to do something special and that it was frustrating the team never made the Postseason and took advantage of that opportunity. What is wrong with that? Could have Atkins solidified the roster more in 2021 - yes he could have. And yes missing out the Postseason by one game because the FO failed to make a couple more upgrades is disappointing. The 2021 team was probably the best on paper and had the best opportunity to go to a World Series.

 

"anything ever seen". I'm not referring to the result of their bullpen, just the Fujinami experiment and their dedication to the process. It may blow up on them, but neither the Yankees nor the Rays of the last 10 years would throw a guy like Fujinami into leverage.

 

I believe Fujinami hit 2 and walked 1 in Toronto, a few days later was thrown into a 2-0 game and pitched a clean inning, next game walked 3 and was horrible, next game was in to get a save with a clean inning.

 

Like I am sure if some guy with Fuji's walk rate and 8.00 ERA was Toronto's big acquisition and put into leverage the fans would go nuts.

 

Who will have better numbers at the end of the year (for their new teams) Fuji or Hicks? It's random I guess, just 20 reliever innings.

 

[jaysblue]

I never said I don't like AA. I even said "which is fine, but still" because I didn't want to get into an argument over AA. I thought he did a solid job. I will forever be grateful to him for ending the playoff drought. That was a rough 20 years. But that 2015 team was not set up for long term success, hence the "which is fine, but still." It had a 2 year window and that's it. AA then went to the Dodgers and has seemingly changed his philosophy a bit and then landed in a very good situation in Atlanta. He's doing a great job there.

 

My larger point was that you are harping on how bad Atkins f***ed up 2021 because he didn't address the bullpen. He did. And on top of it he added a 45 homer 2B, a Cy Young winner, George Springer, and a couple of 3 WAR starting pitchers. That's one of the most monumentally brilliant seasons that a GM has had in the past decade. It might be the best in franchise history though I'm sure Pat Gillick had a couple as well.

 

And on top of it, unlike what AA did here (who again I like), Atkins has built this team with a far larger window. The 2015-2016 teams had two years and that's it. With Atkins we made the Covid playoffs in 2020 (for whatever that is worth), missed out on the final day of the season in 2021, made it last year in 2022 and the team is in prime shape to make it again in 2023. Next year and 2025 look like good bets as well. The franchise is in good shape.

 

Is this team really set up well for term success? C'mon man. After 2025, things look pretty bleak once Bo and Vladdy leave, and with an aging roster, unless this team adds some high end prospects during the draft. The farm system isn't that great or flooding with talent knocking on the door. If it was, we wouldn't be seeing Mitch White start games here, or guys like Tapia getting 400ABs last season.

 

Again, Atkins has done a solid job here during his tenure and has built competitive teams, but for some reason when I question or criticize him on some things, posters like Brownie19 go crazy. Look back at my posts! The way Brownie19 responds to my posts, he twists everything around and makes it seem like I'm 100% against Atkins which I'm not.

 

The offseason before the 2021 season was excellent, yes! I never said anything bad about the moves Atkins made. I praised his moves signing Semien, trading for Ray, and Matz. Again, go find those posts if I did. I'm criticizing the fact that with a great roster, he never took fully advantage of it that season. Yes he traded for Berrios and signed him to an extension - I praised Atkins for that. Could have he done more? Yes considering they missed the Postseason by ONE game. That 2021 team was probably the best team we saw on paper and probably will be during Atkins tenure.

 

AA had to make the Postseason without the extra WC spots, so yeah he had a tougher task those years. Jays made it in 2020, but 8 teams in each league. In 2021, they missed by one game. In 2022, they won WC1. This season, they're fighting for WC3. Out of those three years, they never won a Postseason game yet. Let's hope that changes this season and in 2024 and 2025!

[jaysblue]

Jays Blue your posts are too long. Do you guys even read them? I like posts that are concise and to the point

 

Put me on ignore if you have trouble reading small paragraphs!

[metafour]

Is this team really set up well for term success? C'mon man. After 2025, things look pretty bleak once Bo and Vladdy leave

 

I agree. There's no way they'll be able to replace two whole players. One of whom is currently a 0.4 fWAR first baseman, which as we know, is irreplaceable. We'll be in a REALLY bad spot.