GDT: 2/3 Chicago Cubs @ Toronto Blue Jays (Saturday 3:07 ET) Jose Bautista day!!!

[Terminator]

Is this team really set up well for term success? C'mon man. After 2025, things look pretty bleak once Bo and Vladdy leave, and with an aging roster, unless this team adds some high end prospects during the draft. The farm system isn't that great or flooding with talent knocking on the door. If it was, we wouldn't be seeing Mitch White start games here, or guys like Tapia getting 400ABs last season.

 

Again, Atkins has done a solid job here during his tenure and has built competitive teams, but for some reason when I question or criticize him on some things, posters like Brownie19 go crazy. Look back at my posts! The way Brownie19 responds to my posts, he twists everything around and makes it seem like I'm 100% against Atkins which I'm not.

 

The offseason before the 2021 season was excellent, yes! I never said anything bad about the moves Atkins made. I praised his moves signing Semien, trading for Ray, and Matz. Again, go find those posts if I did. I'm criticizing the fact that with a great roster, he never took fully advantage of it that season. Yes he traded for Berrios and signed him to an extension - I praised Atkins for that. Could have he done more? Yes considering they missed the Postseason by ONE game. That 2021 team was probably the best team we saw on paper and probably will be during Atkins tenure.

 

AA had to make the Postseason without the extra WC spots, so yeah he had a tougher task those years. Jays made it in 2020, but 8 teams in each league. In 2021, they missed by one game. In 2022, they won WC1. This season, they're fighting for WC3. Out of those three years, they never won a Postseason game yet. Let's hope that changes this season and in 2024 and 2025!

 

My point is that Atkins has created a 2020-2025 window of contention (maybe the Covid year doesn't count but still) when AA created a two year window (although Atkins was in charge for that second year and probably does deserve some credit). And that's assuming the team is done after 2025 which I don't think is true at all.

 

The extra wild card does make a difference but you're crowning AA as a success and Atkins as a failure when the AA team didn't even make the WS and the Atkins team's run of contention isn't even close to being over!

[jaysblue]

I agree. There's no way they'll be able to replace two whole players. One of whom is currently a 0.4 fWAR first baseman, which as we know, is irreplaceable. We'll be in a REALLY bad spot.

 

Aging roster as well with some big contracts. Name me an elite core positional player here after 2025? Or name me a top prospect who can step in and make a huge impact over the next year or so?

 

As well, Gausman and Berrios will both be older and who knows if they keep pitching at the same high level after 2025. Do the Jays have arms that could step in? You have to expect some regression from Gausman and Berrios as they age. You need to take advantage of them while they're pitching in top form now, not 3 years down the road when it's uncertain if they can keep that level up.

[Terminator]

You're s***ing on Atkins and acting all incredulous because of a 5 year window of contention. Yet in the same breath you'll praise AA who built a two year window of contention. Makes no sense.

[jaysblue]

My point is that Atkins has created a 2020-2025 window of contention (maybe the Covid year doesn't count but still) when AA created a two year window (although Atkins was in charge for that second year and probably does deserve some credit). And that's assuming the team is done after 2025 which I don't think is true at all.

 

The extra wild card does make a difference but you're crowning AA as a success and Atkins as a failure when the AA team didn't even make the WS and the Atkins team's run of contention isn't even close to being over!

 

Yeah not arguing that Atkins hasn't created a competitive window here. He hasn't taken this team to the next level yet though, but he still has 2024 and 2025 so we'll see. This season as well if the team makes the Postseason and gets hot at the right time. We'll see how the offseason goes, but it's not going to be easy replacing Chapman and improve on the three other vacant spots in the lineup, given the money they have tied up to other players and players who will be getting raises.

 

Sure, I give Atkins some credit for 2016. More AA because it was the core he left in place. Though Atkins did a solid job signing JA Happ to replace Price, trading for Liriano and Grilli at the deadline. The team even under Atkins went for it in 2017, though injuries did derail their season and lead to the start of the rebuild. I think in 2017 they would have still been competitive but yeah sucks a bunch of injuries pretty much derailed their season.

 

I don't know what happens after 2025, anything could happen. If the Jays don't win a World Series before then, Atkins is likely gone anyways. I don't see any prospects who are knocking on the door to replace some aging players or FA's but that could change depending on how well the team drafts in the next two years.

 

Even though we disagree on some things, glad you're always open to civil discussion Terminator. Can't say that about some other posters. I do have the utmost respect for you despite some of the disagreements we've had. You're a class act!

[jaysblue]

You're s***ing on Atkins and acting all incredulous because of a 5 year window of contention. Yet in the same breath you'll praise AA who built a two year window of contention. Makes no sense.

 

I give AA maybe a 3-4 window of contention. In 2014, they were 83-79 and if there was the expanded Postseason as there is now, maybe AA is more aggressive and adds at the trade deadline. AA was only here for 5-6 years, whereas Atkins pretty much will be here an entire decade most likely. I'll also consider 2017 part of that window since before the season started, the Jays were planning on being competitive.

 

In 2015 and 2016, the team did make the ALCS. The 2015 team on paper had an excellent chance at winning the World Series.

 

Overall, both AA and Atkins have done a lot of positive things for this organization. AA brought Postseason baseball back to Toronto for the first time in over 20 years and came close to bringing the team to a World Series. Atkins has built a competitive team year in and out since 2021. All he needs to do is take this team to the next level, which he hasn't yet though still has this season and 2024/2025 to do so.

[Spanky99]

Put me on ignore if you have trouble reading small paragraphs!

 

For every 100 posts, you post like way too much dialect for a simple response like 85% of the time, seriously.

 

See above.

[metafour]

Aging roster as well with some big contracts.

 

Oh yeah? Is that so? Name them for me.

 

Under your hypothetical scenario, Springer is in the very final year of his contract. Gausman is in the final year of his contract. Ryu is long gone. Bassit is gone (contract ends at the same time Bichette and Vlad become UFA's).

 

Berrios is literally the only player locked in beyond the year Bo/Vlad become UFA's.

 

If the team is hypothetically not even attempting to resign either Bo or Vlad, then I assume they aren't even in the playoffs in which case you are rebuilding anyway and trading them. If you're doing that, then carrying Springer and Gausman for one season changes nothing as their contracts expire the very next season. Also, if you are trading Boi and Vlad then you are shedding their contracts off the books as well so it's a wash.

 

You are making something up that doesn't exist. This "core" is all locked in for around the same timeframe. They either succeed and keep going, or the window ends and within a year later basically all of your big "old" contracts are off the books.

 

Name me an elite core positional player here after 2025? Or name me a top prospect who can step in and make a huge impact over the next year or so?

 

Nah, I'm good. I'll just agree with you: by 2026, the Blue Jays will not have developed or produced a single valuable player from their minor league system. So from today till 2026, not one impact player will come up. Agreed. The system has nothing.

 

By the way. if the core hypothetically fails and the run ends and the team has no interest in resigning Bichette/Vlad (this is your hypothetical, not mine) then they're both traded....for prospects.