General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Laika]

We don't really need him unless we move Horwitz. If we move Horwitz, which I think is possible, he would be a possible fit. But so would Belt and others.

 

Votto could have some more in the tank. He was league average last year after coming off a major injury and no spring training.

 

I'm all for it but Horwitz needs to be traded to make it work.

 

Should Horwitz even matter?

 

25 year old with 10 HR in AAA in almost 500 PA. Sure, the BB and K rates look nice but again he was 25. He has options.

 

I think he's a guy I really like on my 40 man roster but prefer not to have on my 26 man MLB roster.

[Terminator]

Should Horwitz even matter?

 

25 year old with 10 HR in AAA in almost 500 PA. Sure, the BB and K rates look nice but again he was 25. He has options.

 

I think he's a guy I really like on my 40 man roster but prefer not to have on my 26 man MLB roster.

 

Well he projects to be much better than Votto and he makes the league minimum. We could stash him in AAA and improve the hitting depth I suppose but there's a good chance doing so makes the big league team worse.

[glory]

A 40 year old DH coming off two below average offensive seasons in a row (including a 75 wRC+ after the ASB in 2023) is not someone I'd be terribly excited about as a DH option. As strictly a bench piece that they can wrap the Canadian flag around for marketing purposes is more acceptable, but not in Belt's role from last season. Could he have a decent season in 2024? Maybe, but I wouldn't want to count on that, and the Jays kinda need offense they can count on after how 2023 turned out.

[hanton]

Horwitz is unproven at the mlb level

[Laika]

Ryan Noda is going to hit arbitration in 2026 so Oakland might want to cycle down and trade him before he costs $2M a year. Horwitz for Noda

[Stangstag]

Should Horwitz even matter?

 

25 year old with 10 HR in AAA in almost 500 PA. Sure, the BB and K rates look nice but again he was 25. He has options.

 

I think he's a guy I really like on my 40 man roster but prefer not to have on my 26 man MLB roster.

 

Are HRs really the be-all end-all?? If he’s smacking a ton of doubles he can still be a valuable piece

[THANOS]

Ryan Noda is going to hit arbitration in 2026 so Oakland might want to cycle down and trade him before he costs $2M a year. Horwitz for Noda

 

Noda basically was a Horowitz type when we traded him. I'd rather give the latter a chance.

[Terminator]

Horwitz is unproven at the mlb level

 

40 year old Votto is kind of in the same boat as far as uncertainty is concerned.

 

But yeah I guess it wouldn't kill the team to put Horwitz in AAA again and see if that 2nd half power spike can continue. Bring him up when there is an injury to get another look at him. And then if he continues to perform then he gets a chance in 2025.

[MikeM3]

Vlad is DH.

[Terminator]

You guys need to fluff up your maple boners a bit. There's room on the team for someone like Votto to play 1B a couple times a week and maybe be the strong side of a DH platoon. If he struggles, DH bats are basically free at the deadline.

 

To be clear my maple boner is throbbing and I want it to happen. One of my favorite players of all time. And while I don't think it makes total sense baseball wise, I think it makes enough sense.

[hanton]

40 year old Votto is kind of in the same boat as far as uncertainty is concerned.

 

But yeah I guess it wouldn't kill the team to put Horwitz in AAA again and see if that 2nd half power spike can continue. Bring him up when there is an injury to get another look at him. And then if he continues to perform then he gets a chance in 2025.

 

we seem to bring up players at the wrong time (just going off memory), Horwitz should have been promoted a while ago (based on his numbers and age - especailly his age), same with Schneider - at least for a good trial run. It's the only way to know if they are ready. Otherwise making decisions based on Septmeber numbers is risky.

[Laika]

Are HRs really the be-all end-all?? If he’s smacking a ton of doubles he can still be a valuable piece

 

No, but he probably doesn't hit a huge amount of doubles either. Just a weird player.

 

If it all works out I guess he'll probably look sort of like 2023 Lars Nootbaar at the plate. But of course the 1B version of him. 15 HRs, .370 OBP kind of dude?

[Brownie19]

To be clear my maple boner is throbbing and I want it to happen. One of my favorite players of all time. And while I don't think it makes total sense baseball wise, I think it makes enough sense.

 

I think we found the board fluffer guys. Line up!

[John_Havok]

Are HRs really the be-all end-all?? If he’s smacking a ton of doubles he can still be a valuable piece

 

Not a be-all-end-all… but, when HRs happen, runs are scored 100% of the time. Horwitz is trending to be the 0 calorie lite version of John Olerud lite.

 

Maybe what…12-14 HR at the MLB level projection right now over a full season? He’d have to hit a shitload of doubles to even be 2-3 fWAR given his positional defense and lack of baserunning value.

 

Think Nate Lowe 2023 but with even less power and probably worse defense….as his ceiling. Lowe hit 17 HRs, 38 doubles. Horwitz would need to hit 50+ doubles to even keep that level of offense up.

[Terminator]

Horwitz slashed .386/.484/.642 from July 8th on. He hit 9 of his 10 minor league homers in that span. Also hit 16 doubles and 1 triple (he had 14 and 0 prior to that). 32 BBs to 30 Ks. So maybe he unlocked some power. Spanky posted some juicy BA chatter about him earlier.

 

Granted, everyone was mashing in Buffalo so probably have to take these numbers with a grain of salt. But he's definitely interesting at this point. If he could be an 18 homer guy instead of a 12 homer guy that would make a huge difference.

[hanton]

The first question that should be asked "what's your hitting philopshy?" since now he has the "authority"

 

[G-Snarls]

Votto not wanting to come to Toronto when he was good makes me not want him at all now that he's 40 and a part time platoon 1B at best Edited November 8, 2023 by G-Snarls

[L54]

Votto not wanting to come to Toronto when he was good and makes me not want him at all now that he's 40 and a part time platoon 1B at best

 

Agreed. Russell Martin was the true maple boner

[G-Snarls]

Agreed. Russell Martin was the true maple boner

 

Damn right

 

And Brett Lawrie was a semi

[deanmike]

Vlad is DH.

 

Literally this, he is absolutely putrid defensively at 1B now. What a payroll anchor this guy is gonna be at 20M.

[L54]

Damn right

 

And Brett Lawrie was a semi

 

The cocaine cowboy

[Brownie19]

Literally this, he is absolutely putrid defensively at 1B now. What a payroll anchor this guy is gonna be at 20M.

 

What's your solution? Sell him at 10 cents on the dollar?

 

Career wRC+ while playing 1st base is 138. It's 120 when he DH's.

[Jays24]

Vlad is a 1st baseman... stop with the extremes from 1 super down year. I can't see him be any worse even if he tried next year.

 

Although the same could be said about the entire batting lineup, which makes you wonder wtf are they doing over there.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Jays24

[G-Snarls]

Vladdy is fine defensively. And he has great bat to ball skills and ++ power.

 

His problems are baserunning and at-the-plate plate approach/swing decisions.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Vladdy is fine defensively. And he has great bat to ball skills and ++ power.

 

His problems are baserunning and at-the-plate plate approach/swing decisions.

 

He's also not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Laika]

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/brendon-little/21574/stats?position=P

 

Dunno if anyone mentioned it but Toronto traded cash for this guy ^^^

[Olerud363]

The first question that should be asked "what's your hitting philopshy?" since now he has the "authority"

 

 

Don Mattingly guide to hitting

 

1. Have 99.9th percentile hand eye coordination

2. Transport yourself to 1985 before they had 4 inning starters with filthy stuff followed by random relievers who threw 100, and before they data analyzed your every weakness.

[wilko]

Screw Votto. Get J.D. Martinez.

[max silver]

Screw Votto. Get J.D. Martinez.

 

I really don't get the hankering for Votto. His numbers against right handed hitters the last few seasons are downright bad which really limits his potential usefulness. If he weren't Canadian I don't think anyone here would give half a f*** about signing him. I think it makes infinitely more sense to spend a bit more to bring back Belt who was far and away the team's best hitter for most of last season.

[Terminator]