General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Terminator]

He's looking skinnier already. I've seen enough. I'm penciling him in as my number 5 next year.

[Laika]

So he's being trained by his brother and his wife.

 

Erik Manoah Jr. and Natalie Orantes.

 

Looks like Erik started this business with Natalie in 2020, while still trying on his MiLB career.

 

Erik is a minor league pitcher who has never been able to throw strikes, so I'm not sure he has any merit as a personal trainer aside from his pitching experience and being an athlete.

 

Natalie is a Registered Dietician, Licensed Dietitian/Nutritionist, and Certified Personal Trainer from what I can see. So she has some merits.

 

Maybe, just maybe, they can save him.

 

But he does not appear to be at any kind of advanced or progressive baseball training compound. Like, he's doing instragram exercises at a mom and pop gym.

[connorp]

I think the Driveline programs are more flexibility, technique, etc

 

I think he has to go to fat camp separately. So seems to check out

[Terminator]

So he's being trained by his brother and his wife.

 

Erik Manoah Jr. and Natalie Orantes.

 

Looks like Erik started this business with Natalie in 2020, while still trying on his MiLB career.

 

Erik is a minor league pitcher who has never been able to throw strikes, so I'm not sure he has any merit as a personal trainer aside from his pitching experience and being an athlete.

 

Natalie is a Registered Dietician, Licensed Dietitian/Nutritionist, and Certified Personal Trainer from what I can see. So she has some merits.

 

Maybe, just maybe, they can save him.

 

But he does not appear to be at any kind of advanced or progressive baseball training compound. Like, he's doing instragram exercises at a mom and pop gym.

 

Hmmm....better than nothing I suppose

[John_Havok]

So he's being trained by his brother and his wife.

 

Erik Manoah Jr. and Natalie Orantes.

 

Looks like Erik started this business with Natalie in 2020, while still trying on his MiLB career.

 

Erik is a minor league pitcher who has never been able to throw strikes, so I'm not sure he has any merit as a personal trainer aside from his pitching experience and being an athlete.

 

Natalie is a Registered Dietician, Licensed Dietitian/Nutritionist, and Certified Personal Trainer from what I can see. So she has some merits.

 

Maybe, just maybe, they can save him.

 

But he does not appear to be at any kind of advanced or progressive baseball training compound. Like, he's doing instragram exercises at a mom and pop gym.

 

The general process of losing weight, increasing specific kinds of muscle, leaning out... whatever he needs from that perspective doesn't need to be done in an advanced baseball training compound though. The basics of those things can be done anywhere with virtually any equipment or just by using body weight.

 

Heading to driveline or the Jays internal lab would be far more about fine tuning mechanics once the rest of it has been completed.

[Olerud363]

 

But he does not appear to be at any kind of advanced or progressive baseball training compound. Like, he's doing instragram exercises at a mom and pop gym.

 

Remember Rocky? Like Rocky was trained low tech and the russians high tech and Rocky won.

 

A lot of guys are sick of the analytics, and the advanced stuff, so they just want a guy to lift, eat right and drive in runs/throw strikes and have the 'playoff it factor'. That's what we want. Screw the advanced stuff, gotta go back to the common sense and forget about the nerd stuff.

[connorp]

Remember Rocky? Like Rocky was trained low tech and the russians high tech and Rocky won.

 

A lot of guys are sick of the analytics, and the advanced stuff, so they just want a guy to lift, eat right and drive in runs/throw strikes and have the 'playoff it factor'. That's what we want. Screw the advanced stuff, gotta go back to the common sense and forget about the nerd stuff.

 

Don’t equate Ivan Drago’s training regimen to your guys PM workout on the Pelaton bike and Pilates DVDs

[John_Havok]

Don’t equate Ivan Drago’s training regimen to your guys PM workout on the Pelaton bike and Pilates DVDs

 

I'd totally watch a Rocky-esque Manoah training video, as long as he hits the frozen sides of beef with his his non-throwing hand only.

[max silver]

Gym is great but he’s still gonna be fat if he eats too much

 

I don't think Manoah's weight issues were due to necessarily slacking off in the gym. He posted plenty of videos of him hitting the weights hard in the last offseason and that's likely why he took so much offence to criticisms about him not working hard.

[Laika]

The general process of losing weight, increasing specific kinds of muscle, leaning out... whatever he needs from that perspective doesn't need to be done in an advanced baseball training compound though. The basics of those things can be done anywhere with virtually any equipment or just by using body weight.

 

Heading to driveline or the Jays internal lab would be far more about fine tuning mechanics once the rest of it has been completed.

 

well yeah, he just needs to lose weight so it's like 100% diet for that goal anyway

 

I guess my point is more... the fact that he is just working out with his brother is kind of disappointing. I am very cynical about Alek Manoah. A lot of these exercises look like eyewash. Going to work out with your family member is like, the easiest path possible. Makes me kind of thing he's not serious about any kind of body transformation. I looked at the instagram for their gym and all of the pics/videos are 12 year olds.

[John_Havok]

well yeah, he just needs to lose weight so it's like 100% diet for that goal anyway

 

I guess my point is more... the fact that he is just working out with his brother is kind of disappointing. I am very cynical about Alek Manoah. A lot of these exercises look like eyewash. Going to work out with your family member is like, the easiest path possible. Makes me kind of thing he's not serious about any kind of body transformation. I looked at the instagram for their gym and all of the pics/videos are 12 year olds.

 

I agree that optics may seem worse, but the reality is that the specific goal of weight loss doesn't need to be achieved in a gym. But, that statement is also overly simplistic and doesn't address the mental side of it.

 

Some people need to get our of their comfort zone in order to achieve it, that may be going to the gym rather than doing it at home.

Some people need to focus more on nutrition vs the exercise.

Some people can do whatever, wherever because it's just 2nd nature to them and their genetics are awesome.

Some people can do everything right but are riddled with stress or mental issues that self-sabotage any results.

 

I would probably guess Manoah is in the "focus more on nutrition" category. People who get to his level or pro sports don't generally lack in the effort department.

[connorp]

Burn more than you take in is the building block.

 

I’ve known many people that lost like 100lbs doing that by just walking

[Laika]

I agree that optics may seem worse, but the reality is that the specific goal of weight loss doesn't need to be achieved in a gym. But, that statement is also overly simplistic and doesn't address the mental side of it.

 

Some people need to get our of their comfort zone in order to achieve it, that may be going to the gym rather than doing it at home.

Some people need to focus more on nutrition vs the exercise.

Some people can do whatever, wherever because it's just 2nd nature to them and their genetics are awesome.

Some people can do everything right but are riddled with stress or mental issues that self-sabotage any results.

 

I would probably guess Manoah is in the "focus more on nutrition" category. People who get to his level or pro sports don't generally lack in the effort department.

 

Yeah I doubt it's an effort thing. For him I would guess that he just thought it was "good" for him as a pitcher to be big. Then that got out of hand.

[Omar]

So he's being trained by his brother and his wife.

 

Erik Manoah Jr. and Natalie Orantes.

 

Looks like Erik started this business with Natalie in 2020, while still trying on his MiLB career.

 

Erik is a minor league pitcher who has never been able to throw strikes, so I'm not sure he has any merit as a personal trainer aside from his pitching experience and being an athlete.

 

Natalie is a Registered Dietician, Licensed Dietitian/Nutritionist, and Certified Personal Trainer from what I can see. So she has some merits.

 

Maybe, just maybe, they can save him.

 

But he does not appear to be at any kind of advanced or progressive baseball training compound. Like, he's doing instragram exercises at a mom and pop gym.

 

I saw his brother in an interview and he was jacked. Yeah a professional trainer and nutritionist would be ideal but this is better than I hoped for. His arms have very little muscle tone though. Hopefully he starts lifting things heavier than pizza slices this off season.

[Terminator]

These workouts and dieting could be good, even if it's his brother and sister and law. I don't think it takes a genius to get in shape nor does it take a genius to tailor the workouts to baseball either. I'd prefer it was with someone with a proven track record but as long as he takes it serious I'm sure the 3 of them can get him into shape.

 

But that's only half the battle for him. His pitches flattened out a lot so he's got to find the mechanics that he was using in 2022. That's where you want to see him in a driveline type atmosphere.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't think Manoah's weight issues were due to necessarily slacking off in the gym. He posted plenty of videos of him hitting the weights hard in the last offseason and that's likely why he took so much offence to criticisms about him not working hard.

 

There is muscle/bulk working out and cardio working out. Manoah needs to do lighter weights more reps and more core/cardio workout.

 

He looked gassed. Benching 300lbs doesn’t matter with a pitch clock.

[max silver]

There is muscle/bulk working out and cardio working out. Manoah needs to do lighter weights more reps and more core/cardio workout.

 

He looked gassed. Benching 300lbs doesn’t matter with a pitch clock.

 

It looks to me like he may have been employing more of a power lifter type of fitness routine with the diet to match.

[Orgfiller]

I saw his brother in an interview and he was jacked. Yeah a professional trainer and nutritionist would be ideal but this is better than I hoped for. His arms have very little muscle tone though. Hopefully he starts lifting things heavier than pizza slices this off season.

 

I mean for lack of a better term, this is because he's fat lol. Manoah is built like an ox, he's definitely very strong, you don't really achieve throwing a ball that fast for 100 pitches (stamina and endurance concerns notwithstanding) without being very strong. There's definitely muscle under there.

 

I'm sure someone is gonna say "akshually a lot of it is genetics" blah blah blah. But he doesn't have chiselled arms because his body fat is too high, not because he doesn't already have a lot of muscle on them.

[Carlos Danger]

It looks to me like he may have been employing more of a power lifter type of fitness routine with the diet to match.

 

I remember being in Denver for Jays series in mid 2000s. It was in the early afternoon before a night game and I saw Halladay and one other ICR jogging in the neighborhood near the team hotel and not to far from the stadium.

 

I have no idea, but I don’t get the sense Manoh is out distance jogging prior to games and at altitude.

[max silver]

I remember being in Denver for Jays series in mid 2000s. It was in the early afternoon before a night game and I saw Halladay and one other ICR jogging in the neighborhood near the team hotel and not to far from the stadium.

 

I have no idea, but I don’t get the sense Manoh is out distance jogging prior to games and at altitude.

 

From what I can gather long distance running is becoming far less common for starting pitchers in place of training with more emphasis on explosiveness.

[John_Havok]

I mean for lack of a better term, this is because he's fat lol. Manoah is built like an ox, he's definitely very strong, you don't really achieve throwing a ball that fast for 100 pitches (stamina and endurance concerns notwithstanding) without being very strong. There's definitely muscle under there.

 

I'm sure someone is gonna say "akshually a lot of it is genetics" blah blah blah. But he doesn't have chiselled arms because his body fat is too high, not because he doesn't already have a lot of muscle on them.

 

Types of muscle in the human body is very much genetically dependent.

 

Some people are born with more type I muscles than type IIA opr type IIX. Different muscles types have different sizes and characrteristics and are better at different things. Once you get past the formative years, the number of muscle fibres you have never changes, its just the fibres get larger in diameter if you work at strength training.

 

Type I muscles fibres are smaller in diameter than type IIA which are in turn smaller in diameter than type IIX. So, someone born with more type IIA and type IIX will get far better results from strength training than someone with fewer type II muscles because those muscle fibres are the ones that have the capability to get larger. People with more type I muscles will not see that type of benefit by doing the same strength training as those with more type IIA and type IIX muscle fibres.

[Carlos Danger]

From what I can gather long distance running is becoming far less common for starting pitchers in place of training with more emphasis on explosiveness.

 

That is what Crossfit is basically and Core centric. However, back to my premise as an outsider. It appears he was going for the bulk muscle/hey, look how much I bench method vs what he should be doing as an MLB pitcher on the new clock.

[John_Havok]

From what I can gather long distance running is becoming far less common for starting pitchers in place of training with more emphasis on explosiveness.

 

Correct, this is due to the type I and type II muscle fibres and what they do in the body. Type I muscles fibres are slower to fatigue so they are the ones that get used the most in endurance activities like long distance running. Explosiveness is driven more by Type IIX muscle fibres, which has the most "power" in them, but they also fatigue the fastest.

[John_Havok]

That is what Crossfit is basically and Core centric. However, back to my premise as an outsider. It appears he was going for the bulk muscle/hey, look how much I bench method vs what he should be doing as an MLB pitcher on the new clock.

 

He cant ignore the fast twitch muscles in favor of endurance muscles either though.

[Laika]

I remember being in Denver for Jays series in mid 2000s. It was in the early afternoon before a night game and I saw Halladay and one other ICR jogging in the neighborhood near the team hotel and not to far from the stadium.

 

I have no idea, but I don’t get the sense Manoh is out distance jogging prior to games and at altitude.

 

Running and cardio can be bad for weight loss though. It works in the short term but then your metabolism adjusts. Also, cardio causes hunger and cravings!

 

Best thing is traditional strength training and diet adjustments. Gain muscle and it increases your metabolism. Better long term strategy.

 

Although, with Manoah the length of the offseason kind of puts him in a crunch. If he wants to cut a significant amount in 5 months. But it would still be completely reasonable for him to just adjust calories, do basic strength training + pitcher specific movement training, and potentially lose like, 30 pounds or so before spring. I dunno.

[Stangstag]

Burn more than you take in is the building block.

 

I’ve known many people that lost like 100lbs doing that by just walking

 

For Manoah it would be more like running a half marathon every night to be in a caloric deficit

[Carlos Danger]

Running and cardio can be bad for weight loss though. It works in the short term but then your metabolism adjusts. Also, cardio causes hunger and cravings!

 

Best thing is traditional strength training and diet adjustments. Gain muscle and it increases your metabolism. Better long term strategy.

 

Although, with Manoah the length of the offseason kind of puts him in a crunch. If he wants to cut a significant amount in 5 months. But it would still be completely reasonable for him to just adjust calories, do basic strength training + pitcher specific movement training, and potentially lose like, 30 pounds or so before spring. I dunno.

 

Weight loss doesn’t necessarily equal significant cardio improvement for the short term. Overall, significant cardio is needed for a pitcher throwing the ball 90 plus repetitively and then sustaining that over optimally 6 innings or plus.

 

Weight loss will help, but how he loses that weight will make a difference.

 

If you are Josh Hader, you can do sprints all day long and give it 110% for an inning.

 

SPs need to have a balance between short burst cardio and long term to sustain the short burst for 6 plus innings.

[Dick_Pole]

 

This is one of the most ridiculous workout routines I have seen in my life. WTF kind of Borat ball-busting s*** was at 0:20? The guy can't even do normal f***ing squats, why are they making him do such elaborate routines? It's mostly for Instagram clout I guess. Basic squats, lunges, calf raises and deadlifts done properly should be good enough for him. I'll give him credit, that jump was good. Better than anything I can do and he outweighs me by at least 75 pounds.

 

Take that squat/calf routine 10 seconds in...okay maybe the trainer is trying to work on his balance? It's a dumb move though. Calf raises you should capable of lifting way more than what you can squat. So all he is doing is resting in between squat reps while making it look like he's working. Basic squatting is actually a more challenging move and extremely good for cardio.

[Stangstag]

This is one of the most ridiculous workout routines I have seen in my life. WTF kind of Borat ball-busting s*** was at 0:20? The guy can't even do normal f***ing squats, why are they making him do such elaborate routines? It's mostly for Instagram clout I guess. Basic squats, lunges, calf raises and deadlifts done properly should be good enough for him. I'll give him credit, that jump was good. Better than anything I can do and he outweighs me by at least 75 pounds.

 

Take that squat/calf routine 10 seconds in...okay maybe the trainer is trying to work on his balance? It's a dumb move though. Calf raises you should capable of lifting way more than what you can squat. So all he is doing is resting in between squat reps while making it look like he's working. Basic squatting is actually a more challenging move and extremely good for cardio.

 

Sumo deads too smh

[BigCecil]

Running and cardio can be bad for weight loss though. It works in the short term but then your metabolism adjusts. Also, cardio causes hunger and cravings!

 

Best thing is traditional strength training and diet adjustments. Gain muscle and it increases your metabolism. Better long term strategy.

 

Yep. Cardio is heart health and important for stamina. He can do that with uphill sprints and peleton etc - other ways that are lower impact on joints/body.

 

Real gains on lost weight will come from what he stuffs in his pie hole, and that strength training. That will also manifest itself more effectively in his appearance.