General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[jaysblue]

Jays need to go 16-0! It starts tonight! Lets go!

[DonJays]

How can they go 11-5 against the AL East when they only have 15 games left against AL East teams? lol

 

Yes, they have one game left against Texas and only 15 against the AL East. Well done

[Krylian]

We’re most likely going to end the season without a single hitter clearing 25 homers.

 

A team with Vlad, Bo, Springer, Chapman, Varsho, Belt….

 

Really hope the front office takes a long hard look at what the f*** went wrong this year.

 

How many meaningful pieces on the team are home grown? And how does that number compare to contending teams around the league. Feels like we should have a few more home grown guys. I could be completely wrong but that's my gut feeling.

[connorp]

Jays need to go 16-0! It starts tonight! Lets go!

 

They can still go 15-0. But that’s about as likely as Jim getting an erection without a pill.

[Terminator]

 

In that first tweet he's talking about Vlad of course.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Terminator

[Masterbather]

Really just needed one win in that series. I've been calling out how mediocre and a non-contender this team is since the season started, and even I'm shocked by the abject failure lol

[Ryu In My House]

What are you guys thinking for Vladdy, 10-year, $500M deal?

[Spanky99]

What are you guys thinking for Vladdy, 10-year, $500M deal?

 

lol

[Jays24]

 

Who needs offense when we got left handed versatility loll

[Spanky99]

Sobering tweet, be better Jays 15 games left...

 

[Stangstag]

Its not even that they’re bad against the ALE, its literally just Boston and Baltimore.

 

And this shitstorm of a series was the final nail in the coffin

[WryNGinger]

This series was just...lifeless. A bunch of dudes staring at each other in the dugout after loss after loss after loss. No leaders. No one willing to eat it and take the loss and say "get you're s*** together" to the team. The "core" of this team is soft and that includes Atkins and Schneider and a lot of the managers.

 

This team has given up on each other because the players that are supposed to be the core, that guys like Belt and KK were told will lead the team to the promised land, just don't show up when it counts. Jay's management team sold a lot of players this year that the teams "young core" would take the next step. It didn't happen.

 

Now the Jays are left in an abyss when it comes to sell or buy. No one could have predicted this team to s*** the f***ing bed as bad offensively as it has. Worse than recent years yes, this bad?...

 

It really sucks to be a fan of the team for so long, track the players coming up through the system, think that there is a plan and that the team might have success in the future...and then just watch them burn their own bridges and get booed out of their own f***ing stadium.

 

Nice work Jays

[Olerud363]

I'd open with Mayza. Not sure what the gentlemen's agreement is in this situation. Like how far in advance do you have to announce that to give the other team a chance to react? I doubt Texas would change anything anyway.

 

Not trolling or joking on this one.

 

The thinking is Gausman is great. One of the best pitchers in baseball obviously. His weakness that has stopped from winning a Cy Young is that occasionally teams either seem super prepped for him and recognize the splitter and jump on him early, or very occasionally he doesn't have enough control to get the fastball low enough to fool them. Perhaps it is a bit of both.

 

f***it. Open with Mayza in the most critical game of the year. Gausman can still go 7 after that and get a win.,

 

I doubt opening with Mayza would have made a difference. The Rangers were f***ing prepared as hell for Gausman as anyone with a brain knew they would be.

 

I don't know what happened to the Rangers for the 20 games before this series. In a way it was bad maybe that they slumped as I think their advance scouting, game prep and focus for this series was off the chart. Like I knew they would, like any team facing Gausman in a big game has, they were prepped as hell!

 

Please Shapiro resign. You are a f***ing god damn piece of s*** brainless, soulless corporate Robot that has failed city and the fans. f*** YOU!

 

The game has changed. Jays front office would be smart in 2012, but is not creative enough, not hard working enough, not analytical enough, do not know the advances in nutrition, game prep, and psychology well enough.

[jaysblue]

Just some bad luck against teams like Baltimore and Boston. If the Jays were .500 against those team, they're sitting in a WC spot comfortably. Just a lot of bad luck that even the projections got wrong. If the Jays had better luck on their side, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It's crazy how baseball works.

[jaysblue]

Please Shapiro resign. You are a f***ing god damn piece of s*** brainless, soulless corporate Robot that has failed city and the fans. f*** YOU!

 

He needs to finish the 100 level infield club still.

[Olerud363]

I doubt opening with Mayza would have made a difference.

 

Looking over the box score again I changed my mind. Opening with Mayza would have made a difference. You never know for sure but say he came in and pitched 1.1 innings of scoreless ball to start it, got through Seager and another left handed hitter once then handed it off to Gausman with 1 out in the 2nd, Gausman probably get's through the 2nd and maybe get's in a rhythm.

 

Bottom line is with the advance scouting and game prep at the level it is Jays need to change it up sometimes. Their best pitcher obviously can be planned for... I mean it's common sense he only has 2 pitches, and for 2 years in a row his grandpa stats, ERA and W-L, have been far behind his advanced stats and stuff (W-L obviously a reflection of some bad luck, but ERA a reflection of clusters of runs ? )

 

Counterpoint might be that for most of the year Jays had the best starters in baseball.

 

Counter-counterpoint is that the pitching looks good because of 80 defensive runs saved or something, so it isn't really as good as it looks and some of these guys need openers.

 

Openers?? What kind of crazy ******** is that? Tried it a few years ago and everyone hated it. f*** it. Be the organization that bucks the trend, goes back to openers to try to counter game planning, and get's ahead of the curve for once.

 

AND WHILE WHERE AT IT WHAT ABOUT SOME GAME PLANNING ON THE OFFENSIVE YOU f***ING LAZY BASTARDS?? I am assuming at least Dave Hudgens will be released and can watch Biden Impeachment in his house next year, instead of the clubhouse before game-time.

[Spanky99]

Take your meds, mate.

[Ryu In My House]

Lol. Do I hear $600M? If we look back on this window and 2021 was our best team/chance that’s going to be rough. I will burn Brad Hand and Tyler Chatwood in effigy.

 

Such a great idea. Even reading those names makes me uneasy and slightly angry.

[Ryu In My House]

Vladdy's arbitration this time around is going to be a nightmare. I mean, all the Jays need to do is show a PowerPoint presentation of his 2023 numbers. I hope they settle on a Bichette-like $10M/year to cover the remainder of his arb time.

[Olerud363]

Vladdy's arbitration this time around is going to be a nightmare. I mean, all the Jays need to do is show a PowerPoint presentation of his 2023 numbers. I hope they settle on a Bichette-like $10M/year to cover the remainder of his arb time.

 

 

Do they even use advanced stats in arbitration? If they compare him to Soto (which they can using homers and RBIzzzz) they can easily show Vlad = Soto and I think Soto got 23 million at this age after a 20 homer 65 rbi season.

 

Hell maybe Vlad deserves more!

 

In all seriousness they can pretty much show he is equal to Soto except for walks (which no one will care about), but 80 extra walks a year makes a big difference in WAR obviously, but maybe not arbitration.

[Olerud363]

Take your meds, mate.

 

But it's a serious point. The idea that Gausman is easy to gameplan for and is giving away fastball/splitter if a team knows what to look for is something Buck Martinez has been talking about since early 2022 when he started having weird bad games all of a sudden.

 

He blew in the biggest game of the season and it was predictable this would happen, facing a good team that probably prepared like hell for this start.

 

Frustration is justified given this has been a thing for almost his entire Blue Jays career.

[Olerud363]

He needs to finish the 100 level infield club still.

 

 

lol. Aren't they kicking the 90 year old home plate lady out of her seat so Shapiro can give a sweet old lady's seats to a fellow corporate s***-bag? Can't even make this s*** up.

 

Needs to be fired this morning. On top of everything else he is apparently turning the 100 level into a play pen for the rich.

 

AA (Hypothetically if he was still here) - I love you home plate lady and your seats are yours forever. Everything I do is for you so you can see one final championship. We assigned 10 psychologists, 10 nutritionists, and 10 hitting experts to personally monitor Vladimir Guerrero Jr. so he can continue his 2021 form and bring joy to the fans who where his Jersey, great joy... and joy to you too, home plate lady, even though you don't have a jersey. Do you want one? I love you home plate lady.

 

Shapiro (on cell phone from Ohio) - Get that bitch out of those seats.

[L54]

I’ve been saying it for over a year. No leadership within the organization at all. Not in the dugout, not in the clubhouse and not upstairs. As long as the Jays are making Rogers cash everyone gets to keep their job

[Olerud363]

I’ve been saying it for over a year. No leadership within the organization at all. Not in the dugout, not in the clubhouse and not upstairs. As long as the Jays are making Rogers cash everyone gets to keep their job

 

How do you fix this in the context of corporate ownership? Say what you want about the Red Sox, but John Henry gives his baseball ops leadership team 4 years, and moves on. Moved on from the groups that won the 2013 and then 2018 World Series.

 

In the years he overlapped with the Jays Chaim Bloom, who just got fired, beat them in Playoff wins 6-0.

[Laika]

I’ve been saying it for over a year. No leadership within the organization at all. Not in the dugout, not in the clubhouse and not upstairs. As long as the Jays are making Rogers cash everyone gets to keep their job

 

Yeah none of the young guys have emerged as leadership material.

 

- Manoah is the opposite of a leader

- Bo seems very individual

- Vlad is on an island / a clown

- Kirk is a nothing personality

- Jansen is only around half the time

 

And the veterans brought in by trade or signings are a mixed bag.

 

- George / Chapman / Berrios have some leadership qualities

- Gausman leads by example but is a bit of a stoner

- Kikuchi, Ryu are nothing

- Bassitt is actually a bit of a headcase

 

The whole coaching staff and front office seems very low T. I mean what type of front office would sit down with Charlie Montoyo and actually hire him? Good lord.

John Schnieder may be able to become a quality MLB manager with some sway but he's too green right now.

 

 

 

The Jays had a fun/loose team for a couple years. They decided to squash the fun and turn "serious" this year. But you can't just flip a switch like that. They just went from a team with some charisma to a team with zero personality whatsoever.

[Omar]

The whole coaching staff and front office seems very low T. I mean what type of front office would sit down with Charlie Montoyo and actually hire him? Good lord.

John Schnieder may be able to become a quality MLB manager with some sway but he's too green right now.

.

 

I remember reading in Steve Jobs biography that early on in the formative years of Apple he insisted on hiring every manager no matter the position. When asked why he said, "to avoid the bozo explosion.". He explained if you hire a bozo they then proceed to hire a bozo like themselves. And so it proceeds down the line and throughout your organization. Next thing you know you have a whole organization of bozos. The hiring of Montoyo et al. is all part of the bozo explosion that Jobs warned about. It wouldn't surprise me if this org is full of bozos from scouting to operations to coaching.

 

Can't wait for the inevitable great purge.

[Laika]

I remember reading in Steve Jobs biography that early on in the formative years of Apple he insisted on hiring every manager no matter the position. When asked why he said, "to avoid the bozo explosion.". He explained if you hire a bozo they then proceed to hire a bozo like themselves. And so it proceeds down the line and throughout your organization. Next thing you know you have a whole organization of bozos. The hiring of Montoyo et al. is all part of the bozo explosion that Jobs warned about. It wouldn't surprise me if this org is full of bozos from scouting to operations to coaching.

 

Can't wait for the inevitable great purge.

 

lmao yes

 

so the thing is to find the top bozo and kill them

 

I have trouble seeing Shapiro as a bozo. Maybe he is though. Maybe it's Atkins.

[Brownie19]

lmao yes

 

so the thing is to find the top bozo and kill them

 

I have trouble seeing Shapiro as a bozo. Maybe he is though. Maybe it's Atkins.

 

Maybe AA is the bozo. He signed Vlad, who's the biggest bozo in the league.

[BCZ]

Good starting pitching successfully wasted. Season successfully butchered. I doubt Kikuchi comes close to this season again.

[Jays333]

What a horrendous twist of fate. The calling card of the Bluejays the last few years has been the explosive offense. So much firepower but not enough pitching to get over the hump.

 

Finally this year we have the best pitching staff we have seen in a decade, and the offense has struggled all season long. All we needed to happen to go on a run was the offense to catch up just a little bit. Instead at the most important part of the season the offense doesn't catch up, it hits a season low, and not only that, the pitching staff is starting to implode now as well.

 

Such a Toronto thing, choking in the biggest moments. How did the Raptors avoid it??

 

Im a fan of a lot of the things Ross has done. I think he needs to be shown the door now though. The Varsho trade, breaking up the Barrio, hiring Montoyo then Schneider, and his heavy analytical approach is enough to out weigh the good he has done. We need a fresh start.