General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[DonJays]

Someones having flashbacks to high school when he got bullied.

 

Interesting take moron

[deanmike]

Would you shut the f*** up? We understand you'd like Lantigua and Orelvis on the team right now.

 

I'd like optimal lineups to be used everyday at this stage of the playoff race, yes. It isn't about Lantigua and Orelvis specifically.

[John_Havok]

JP Morosi just said on the Fan 590 that it's 50/50 that Vlad returns as a Jay next season.

 

i didnt catch his rationale or explanation but ... really?

[wilko]

JP Morosi just said on the Fan 590 that it's 50/50 that Vlad returns as a Jay next season.

 

i didnt catch his rationale or explanation but ... really?

 

Plz provide context.

[Stangstag]

JP Morosi just said on the Fan 590 that it's 50/50 that Vlad returns as a Jay next season.

 

i didnt catch his rationale or explanation but ... really?

 

Lol I think that’s a bit crazy but I could definitely see him gone after 2024

[BigCecil]

For sure

 

The vast majority of us thought the offense this year was going to be good and it just hasn't been because so many guys underperforming their projections.

 

The pitching has been better than expected and he put together an excellent bullpen.

 

As upsetting as this season has been they assembled a team that SHOULD have been better than this. MANY writers picked the Jays to win the division this year.

 

I'm not biased for or against Atkins. Just being objective.

 

Thats all true. Under performance from some was/is a big issue.

 

But to the positive for us and the FO, aside from Manoah crater, which was a touch offset by Ryu unexpectedly coming back to give us some quality innings, this team has been incredibly health lucky. Lots of teams just have to battle the IL all year. ATL won the WS with Soroka, Ozuna and Acuna Jr out. Its part of the game, just as under and over performance is.

 

I'd also say Belt and KK giving us 4 WAR could have been pillow deals gone wrong. But they went our way. Whit bounced back with 2.5 WAR.

[BigCecil]

JP Morosi just said on the Fan 590 that it's 50/50 that Vlad returns as a Jay next season.

 

i didnt catch his rationale or explanation but ... really?

 

There is lots of chatter and speculation now about this from quite a few of the talking heads. Especially with the odds of making this playoffs dropping for the Jays. He and others are floating deal ideas pretty regularly now. They seem more freaked out about this window closing fast than most fans OTB. Media.

[The Cats Ass]

It'd be nice to pick up Hunter Renfroe. So there's no need to start Merrifield in the OF and he can be full time 2B.

[Stangstag]

It'd be nice to pick up Hunter Renfroe. So there's no need to start Merrifield in the OF and he can be full time 2B.

 

And have Schneider ride the pine again??

[MikeM3]

JP Morosi just said on the Fan 590 that it's 50/50 that Vlad returns as a Jay next season.

 

i didnt catch his rationale or explanation but ... really?

 

Well the FO has to find a way to rebuild the system quickly or they're out. And Vlad is highly highly unlikely to be worth a long term deal that he'd sign so..

 

Hard decisions must be made

[glory]

JP Morosi just said on the Fan 590 that it's 50/50 that Vlad returns as a Jay next season.

 

i didnt catch his rationale or explanation but ... really?

 

Morosi is a clickbait specialist so I doubt he’s basing that off anything except the voices in his head, but it’s something the Jays are probably discussing internally. I can’t imagine they want anything to do with a long term extension at this point and he loses value the less control he has. Now he’s actively hurting the team as an expensive replacement level player. Bichette seems like someone they legitimately want to extend long term but Bo wants to test free agency so they might be more willing to wait it out with him.

 

Ultimately as long as Atkins is the GM I expect Vlad to be here but it’s probably not as crazy a scenario as it would have been a year ago to see him moved. He could be a 6 WAR player or a 1 WAR next season and neither scenario would be all that shocking. That’s a risky player to have as a “competitive window” starts getting close to the end.

[MikeM3]

I wouldn't extend Bichette either. Guy is losing tons of athleticism with that dirty bulk and has no plate discipline.

[The Cats Ass]

And have Schneider ride the pine again??

 

I hope they'd put Schneider at 3B. Unless their love for Espinal is too strong and for some reason they feel he has to 100% be in the lineup.

[glory]

I wouldn't extend Bichette either. Guy is losing tons of athleticism with that dirty bulk and has no plate discipline.

 

Agreed. I don’t trust players with low walk rates long term so I wouldn’t be upset if he left, but I think the Jays would extend him now if they could. Vlad not so much.

 

I guess the good thing about extending the “window” past 2025 is that both Vlad and Bo (more so Vlad) are flawed enough that the Jays might be able to replace them adequately if they left. I mean if Ha Seong Kim is a FA around the time Bo is, then you could probably sign Kim for much less to replace Bo and see minimal value lost (for example).

[The Cats Ass]

Jays are 37-36 in games Espinal plays. 35-25(95 win pace) in games they keep his ass on the bench.

[BigCecil]

I wouldn't extend Bichette either. Guy is losing tons of athleticism with that dirty bulk and has no plate discipline.

 

This is an unpopular take lol. To me its just about Term/AAV. He will be a 28 year old SS who is bottom third D now at 25. 3rd and 10th percentile on BB & chase respectively. The Baez contract must give DET nightmares.

[Terminator]

Jays are 37-36 in games Espinal plays. 35-25(95 win pace) in games they keep his ass on the bench.

 

Negative ~7 WAR player

[Jonn]

If I'm O-Mart and Barger I'm knocking on some skulls in AAA wondering why the likes of Espinal and McCoy are being employed over me for a team that has playoff aspirations. Make it make sense.

[Brownie19]

If I'm O-Mart and Barger I'm knocking on some skulls in AAA wondering why the likes of Espinal and McCoy are being employed over me for a team that has playoff aspirations. Make it make sense.

 

Barger is hitting .258/.382/.423 with 6 hrs in 233 PAs since returning from injury. Good for a 108 wRC+. Orelvis has a 103 wRC+ in AAA. It's unlikely these guys would provide much of anything at the ML level - certainly not enough to be raising a stink about staying in AAA.

 

McCoy isn't going to provide s*** either. Guys like Schneider, Clement, Lukes and Horwitz had a much stronger argument for deserving a callup. Even Rafael Lantigua did.

 

Also - it's easy to look at what Davis Schneider is doing and say "call up all the AAA guys - they are great", but it typically doesn't work that way. Look at Nathan Lukes. He crushes in AAA and he's useless in the majors.

[BigCecil]

I guess the good thing about extending the “window” past 2025 is that both Vlad and Bo (more so Vlad) are flawed enough that the Jays might be able to replace them adequately if they left. I mean if Ha Seong Kim is a FA around the time Bo is, then you could probably sign Kim for much less to replace Bo and see minimal value lost (for example).

 

I don't put any deal past Ross at this point. The trades he made for Berrios and Chappy were ballsy, whatever you think of them.

 

Trading LGJ and Teo before just before their walk years also big moves. Lots of fans liked pineapple head and mr seeds or whatever their nicknames were.

[deanmike]

Barger is hitting .258/.382/.423 with 6 hrs in 233 PAs since returning from injury. Good for a 108 wRC+. Orelvis has a 103 wRC+ in AAA. It's unlikely these guys would provide much of anything at the ML level - certainly not enough to be raising a stink about staying in AAA.

 

McCoy isn't going to provide s*** either. Guys like Schneider, Clement, Lukes and Horwitz had a much stronger argument for deserving a callup. Even Rafael Lantigua did.

 

Also - it's easy to look at what Davis Schneider is doing and say "call up all the AAA guys - they are great", but it typically doesn't work that way. Look at Nathan Lukes. He crushes in AAA and he's useless in the majors.

 

Agreed on Barger, this next stretch against bad teams has a lot of games vs LHP starters and after that Bo and Chapman should hopefully both be off the IL. Orelvis could have gotten a nice look playing almost everyday during this stretch against bad teams with a lot of lefty starters though, but now it's already too late basically. We've already faced 2 of the lefties scheduled to face us.

 

Lantigua should be on this roster today instead of McCoy. Once Bo and Chapman are back, maybe finally Espinal gets banished to Buffalo and Clement stays up.

[Stangstag]

A forward thinking team (Rays) would be just about to trade him for a haul while already having internal replacements ready to go.

 

The Rays have like 15 fans so its a lot easier for them to get away with things like that

[Jonn]

Barger is hitting .258/.382/.423 with 6 hrs in 233 PAs since returning from injury. Good for a 108 wRC+. Orelvis has a 103 wRC+ in AAA. It's unlikely these guys would provide much of anything at the ML level - certainly not enough to be raising a stink about staying in AAA.

 

McCoy isn't going to provide s*** either. Guys like Schneider, Clement, Lukes and Horwitz had a much stronger argument for deserving a callup. Even Rafael Lantigua did.

 

Also - it's easy to look at what Davis Schneider is doing and say "call up all the AAA guys - they are great", but it typically doesn't work that way. Look at Nathan Lukes. He crushes in AAA and he's useless in the majors.

 

Sometimes you gotta look beyond the paper numbers and look at all the underlying things they are doing exceptionally well like hitting the Baseball very hard, the quality of their plate appearances. Those numbers are a great source of projection but young players are continuously getting better and take huge steps sometimes those steps come at the next level. There's stars in the big leagues right now that have been MLB numbers than minor league numbers. I just don't think you can put stock in their AAA numbers alone. They have both had peaks and valleys.

 

Would like to see them get a look this year. They are going to be big part of next years teams and future.

[RobinThicc]

Agreed. I don’t trust players with low walk rates long term so I wouldn’t be upset if he left, but I think the Jays would extend him now if they could. Vlad not so much.

 

I guess the good thing about extending the “window” past 2025 is that both Vlad and Bo (more so Vlad) are flawed enough that the Jays might be able to replace them adequately if they left. I mean if Ha Seong Kim is a FA around the time Bo is, then you could probably sign Kim for much less to replace Bo and see minimal value lost (for example).

 

the time to extend either of them has passed. The best time would have been after 2020, for Bo at least. Probably couldve convinced him with a 200 mill deal that expires in his early 30's. Now it will take 300+ mill and it will take him into his mid 30's.

 

He probably ends up being an expensive 2B. I think you could definitely make a case against extending him.

[Brownie19]

Sometimes you gotta look beyond the paper numbers and look at all the underlying things they are doing exceptionally well like hitting the Baseball very hard, the quality of their plate appearances. Those numbers are a great source of projection but young players are continuously getting better and take huge steps sometimes those steps come at the next level. There's stars in the big leagues right now that have been MLB numbers than minor league numbers. I just don't think you can put stock in their AAA numbers alone. They have both had peaks and valleys.

 

Would like to see them get a look this year. They are going to be big part of next years teams and future.

 

and you've done all these things and have determined they should be at the ML level? or perhaps there's a chance the Blue Jays organization has done all those things and have determined they should stay in AAA? I wonder which one is more likely...

[Jonn]

and you've done all these things and have determined they should be at the ML level? or perhaps there's a chance the Blue Jays organization has done all those things and have determined they should stay in AAA? I wonder which one is more likely...

 

I feel they should be at the Major League level over multiple players on the current roster yes. They are both on the cusp. Wouldn't be shocked to see either in September. Horwitz is coming for sure.

[Brownie19]

I feel they should be at the Major League level over multiple players on the current roster yes. They are both on the cusp. Wouldn't be shocked to see either in September. Horwitz is coming for sure.

 

So the numbers don't really suggest they should be on the ML level and then you throw out some BS about evaluating based on several other factors - which you haven't done at all (but the Jays have) and then conclude they should both be on the team right now. If this conclusion leads to you believing the FO is s*** - than that's really stupid - yet a good example of how idiotic society is these days.

[metafour]

This is an unpopular take lol. To me its just about Term/AAV. He will be a 28 year old SS who is bottom third D now at 25. 3rd and 10th percentile on BB & chase respectively. The Baez contract must give DET nightmares.

 

Bichette is nothing like Baez. Baez didn't even have his first "good" hitting season until his 5th year in the league.

 

Bichette is one of the most consistently above-average hitters in the entire league. 90th percentile or above xBA in each of the past 4 seasons. He's in the 98th percentile this season. It's truly elite bat to ball skills.

[Jays333]

Jeesus JS and Vladdy are taking it on the shins from the media the last 24 hours

[Stangstag]

Jeesus JS and Vladdy are taking it on the shins from the media the last 24 hours

 

Deserved. Heat needs to be on Atkins too