General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Spanky99]

Weather as of now is saying it will start raining in Baltimore at roughly 9pm EST. Good chance this could be a seven inning type final tonight. Need to get on the sticks early.

 

There's no such thing as early finals anymore, all games get suspended and completed in a future date.

[Masterbather]

It's fun watching good players on other teams work the count, foul off tough pitches and wait until they get good pitches to hit. Even when they make outs they have great at bats. You always feel like they might make something happen.

 

Then you have f***ing Vlad flailing away at whatever s*** the pitcher throws to the plate without a single f***ing care in the world and when he does get a cookie, routinely missing them. Quite the dichotomy.

 

How is it possible that he got this bad? I don't think I've ever hated a Blue Jays player more. There have certainly been worse players, but that's because they weren't talented. I've never experienced the type of physical anger this man brings out in me. I literally don't want to see him play anymore. I'll take Schneider or anybody else they want to call up. It can't be worse at this point.

 

Why not bench him for three or four straight games? Maybe it will make him mad. Maybe an angry Vladdy might actually be good for us. Because happy-go-lucky don't give a s*** Vladdy who knows he's going to play every day isn't working for anybody.

[JaysAllMighty]

It's fun watching good players on other teams work the count, foul off tough pitches and wait until they get good pitches to hit. Even when they make outs they have great at bats. You always feel like they might make something happen.

 

Then you have f***ing Vlad flailing away at whatever s*** the pitcher throws to the plate without a single f***ing care in the world and when he does get a cookie, routinely missing them. Quite the dichotomy.

 

How is it possible that he got this bad? I don't think I've ever hated a Blue Jays player more. There have certainly been worse players, but that's because they weren't talented. I've never experienced the type of physical anger this man brings out in me. I literally don't want to see him play anymore. I'll take Schneider or anybody else they want to call up. It can't be worse at this point.

 

Why not bench him for three or four straight games? Maybe it will make him mad. Maybe an angry Vladdy might actually be good for us. Because happy-go-lucky don't give a s*** Vladdy who knows he's going to play every day isn't working for anybody.

 

You need a manager with balls to bench him, ain't going to happen.

[Spanky99]

That was a rough showing from the Birds the last 2 days, thought they'd turn a corner after Fridays big win, here's some notes over the last couple days from BNS...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stangstag]

Win or go home. Time to buckle the f*** up and play hard. That series against the Os was another embarrassment. This lineup should not be getting shut down by mediocre pitchers several times a week.

 

Step it the f*** up.

[M.E.]

The Jays have been shutout 8 times this year with all 8 coming since June 19th.

[hanton]

can chad green hit?

[Omar]

We lost 2 of 3 to the best team in the AL. Not a good look but the sky isn’t falling, yet. Seems we fold in high pressure scenarios both in game and big series. Schneider better think of a way to remedy that. That being said he also has to make better use of his roster. Term makes a point about Babe Schneider riding the pines. Also I don’t care about splits and who’s pitching for the opposing team, I want to see KK play as many games as possible down the stretch. This team is at its best with KK in centre, Varsho in left and Whit at 2b. As for Vladdy, with only 20% of the season left nothing is going to change there and I have little hope he improves. It is a sprint to the finish line and I hope John Schneider recognizes that when he fills out the lineup card.

[MikeM3]

It's fun watching good players on other teams work the count, foul off tough pitches and wait until they get good pitches to hit. Even when they make outs they have great at bats. You always feel like they might make something happen.

 

Then you have f***ing Vlad flailing away at whatever s*** the pitcher throws to the plate without a single f***ing care in the world and when he does get a cookie, routinely missing them. Quite the dichotomy.

 

How is it possible that he got this bad? I don't think I've ever hated a Blue Jays player more. There have certainly been worse players, but that's because they weren't talented. I've never experienced the type of physical anger this man brings out in me. I literally don't want to see him play anymore. I'll take Schneider or anybody else they want to call up. It can't be worse at this point.

 

Why not bench him for three or four straight games? Maybe it will make him mad. Maybe an angry Vladdy might actually be good for us. Because happy-go-lucky don't give a s*** Vladdy who knows he's going to play every day isn't working for anybody.

 

See ball hit ball. He learned nothing in the minors. Not sure what area he's developed in since he was 19.

[Stangstag]

We lost 2 of 3 to the best team in the AL. Not a good look but the sky isn’t falling, yet. Seems we fold in high pressure scenarios both in game and big series. Schneider better think of a way to remedy that. That being said he also has to make better use of his roster. Term makes a point about Babe Schneider riding the pines. Also I don’t care about splits and who’s pitching for the opposing team, I want to see KK play as many games as possible down the stretch. This team is at its best with KK in centre, Varsho in left and Whit at 2b. As for Vladdy, with only 20% of the season left nothing is going to change there and I have little hope he improves. It is a sprint to the finish line and I hope John Schneider recognizes that when he fills out the lineup card.

 

You’re right, im just tired of the team getting dominated against s*** pitchers.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Cleveland and Washington are sub .500, but they aren't complete duds either. We just lost a series 1-2 to Cleveland a couple weeks ago.

 

After that though, the Jays play 9 straight against the three worst teams in MLB, two of which are bordering on historically bad. If they don't win at least 7 of those 9 games, they don't deserve the post season anyways.

 

Hopefully they can go 4-2 in the first 6 games, and then 8-1 in the next 9 for a 12-3 stretch. Would put them at 82-61 with 19 games left.

[jaysblue]

You need a manager with balls to bench him, ain't going to happen.

 

Or move him down the lineup to like 7th or 8th. Send a message.

[jaysblue]

Win or go home. Time to buckle the f*** up and play hard. That series against the Os was another embarrassment. This lineup should not be getting shut down by mediocre pitchers several times a week.

 

Step it the f*** up.

 

Yup. I thought after Game 1, despite getting lucky to pull out that win, what a tough game to grind out and win and start the series with. Then you have two shitballers the next two nights who just shut you down. FFS!

[Eat My Shatkins]

As s*** as Vlad has been, sadly he's still got the 3rd best wRC+ of all the regular starters.

 

What a joke. Unreal lol

[jaysblue]

Cleveland and Washington are sub .500, but they aren't complete duds either. We just lost a series 1-2 to Cleveland a couple weeks ago.

 

After that though, the Jays play 9 straight against the three worst teams in MLB, two of which are bordering on historically bad. If they don't win at least 7 of those 9 games, they don't deserve the post season anyways.

 

Hopefully they can go 4-2 in the first 6 games, and then 8-1 in the next 9 for a 12-3 stretch. Would put them at 82-61 with 19 games left.

 

Yeah I was even saying this two months ago about this easy part of the schedule. Some of these teams aren't duds and you can't just assume the Jays, under pressure right now, to completely dominate these teams. I hated the excuses some posters were using in June that the Jays haven't had an easy schedule yet and that "oh there is nothing to worry about since they have the easiest schedule down the stretch." The Jays better f*%king step up or else they pissed away their season.

[Brownie19]

See ball hit ball. He learned nothing in the minors. Not sure what area he's developed in since he was 19.

 

Primarily his ass and his belly.

[Laika]

Cleveland can pitch and Washington is a quality underdog

 

The Blue Jays will get thoroughly dominated by Bibee, Syndergaard, and Josiah Gray and go 3-3 over the next 6 games.

 

Vlad will have 8 groundball singles, a caught stealing, and one HR which will happen in the 8th inning of a 10-2 drumming of Logan T. Allen.

[Governator]

Cleveland and Washington are sub .500, but they aren't complete duds either. We just lost a series 1-2 to Cleveland a couple weeks ago.

 

After that though, the Jays play 9 straight against the three worst teams in MLB, two of which are bordering on historically bad. If they don't win at least 7 of those 9 games, they don't deserve the post season anyways.

 

Hopefully they can go 4-2 in the first 6 games, and then 8-1 in the next 9 for a 12-3 stretch. Would put them at 82-61 with 19 games left.

 

Pretty much this. If we can't get rolling over the next couple of weeks against much weaker competition, then the odds of any kind of post season is null even with an Astros collapse where we squeek in.

[spats]

May be time to bring Orelvis up to add some pop to this lineup. He can't be any worse than what they're trotting out there now.

[Stangstag]

Cleveland can pitch and Washington is a quality underdog

 

The Blue Jays will get thoroughly dominated by Bibee, Syndergaard, and Josiah Gray and go 3-3 over the next 6 games.

 

Vlad will have 8 groundball singles, a caught stealing, and one HR which will happen in the 8th inning of a 10-2 drumming of Logan T. Allen.

 

Plausible

[Stangstag]

May be time to bring Orelvis up to add some pop to this lineup. He can't be any worse than what they're trotting out there now.

 

We have Orelvis at home (Babe Schneids)

[Laika]

May be time to bring Orelvis up to add some pop to this lineup. He can't be any worse than what they're trotting out there now.

 

Oh man he would probably get destroyed in the big leagues right now

 

Definitely needs another offseason / spring / partial AAA season of work

[L54]

No reason to continue hitting Vlad fourth. In fact I’d rather hit him lead off to limit all the GIDP he hits into

[Stangstag]

No reason to continue hitting Vlad fourth. In fact I’d rather hit him lead off to limit all the GIDP he hits into

 

He has a great profile for a leadoff guy: slap hitter, gets on base, lots of grounders….

 

Trouble is he’s 300lbs and not fast at all

[glory]

May be time to bring Orelvis up to add some pop to this lineup. He can't be any worse than what they're trotting out there now.

 

Guillermo/Hudgens would have him reduce his K rate but hit everything the other way (and on the ground) within a week.

 

Gotta stick with the vetrins and sink/swim with them, that’s what the org wants.

[Terminator]

May be time to bring Orelvis up to add some pop to this lineup. He can't be any worse than what they're trotting out there now.

 

I like the thought but Schneider can’t even get at bats. Nor can Horowitz even get a callup and both are big league ready.

[BigCecil]

As an older fan I tend to compare this team to the 87-93 Jays, the Expos 1981, 1994 and the 2014-2016 teams:

 

2020 – Weird covid season - blown out in the playoffs. The team and season had few expectations.

 

2021 – Most likable exciting team with Semien, Ray CY season and Vlad/Teo raking. Manoah comes up and shoves creating excitement. The Pen cost us the season early. The FO went for it on Berrios at the deadline, but Brad Hand offset that. The hole was too deep to climb out of. Lots of post season rationalizations about how if we just played at RC all year we would have made it into playoffs, and how this experience would help the young core giving them "vetrin presents" for a real run. Montoyo universally lauded for handling the team so well with Dunedin, Buffalo and RC transitions.

 

2022 – Kirk emerges. Gausman delivers, Berrios & Kooch struggle. Manoah shoves. Ross pulls the get out of jail free card and fires Buntoyo. We take the top wildcard and blow it in epic painful fashion.

 

2023 – 5 FA signings rotation produces. Manoah craters. Teo/LGJ out Varhso in. Pen much improved and performing. Team struggles to score runs and key players under perform most projections offensively, so far. OF D improved. KK and Belt produce. TBD what happens. This is the set of series coming up that might determine it all. They certainly have the talent.

 

2024 – Chappy & Ryu likely gone. KK, Whit, Belt uncertain. Springer, Bassit another yr older. Arb years and another year closer to FA for Vlad/Bo.

 

There is a lot of randomness and luck in baseball and perception can be reality. A deep(er) run in the playoffs creates an identity that changes perceptions, but this window of a 90 +/- 2 win team is frustrating, with its big payroll and being the 11th oldest team in baseball.

 

Having said all that we could be the Mets, Padres, Rockies Angels and any other number of teams much worse off, so there is that, to keep perspective.

Edited August 25, 2023 by BigCecil

[Governator]

As an older fan I tend to compare this team to the 87-93 Jays, the Expos 1981, 1994 and the 2014-2016 teams:

 

2020 – Weird covid season - blown out in the playoffs. The team and season had few expectations.

 

2021 – Most likable exciting team with Semien, Ray CY season and Vlad/Teo raking. Manoah comes up and shoves creating excitement. The Pen cost us the season early. The FO went for it on Berrios at the deadline, but Brad Hand offset that. The hole was too deep to climb out of. Lots of post season rationalizations about how if we just played at RC all year we would have made it into playoffs, and how this experience would help the young core giving them "vetrin presents" for a real run. Montoyo universally lauded for handling the team so well with Dunedin, Buffalo and RC transitions.

 

2022 – Kirk emerges. Gausman delivers, Berrios & Kooch struggle. Manoah shoves. Ross pulls the get out of jail free card and fires Buntoyo. We take the top wildcard and blow it in epic painful fashion.

 

2023 – 5 FA signings rotation produces. Manoah craters. Pen much improved and performing. Team struggles to score runs and key players under perform most projections offensively, so far. OF D improved. KK and Belt produce. TBD what happens. This is the set of series coming up that might determine it all. They certainly have the talent.

 

2024 – Chappy & Ryu likely gone. KK, Whit, Belt uncertain. Springer, Bassit another yr older. Arb years and another year closer to FA for Vlad/Bo.

 

There is a lot of randomness and luck in baseball and perception can be reality. A deep(er) run in the playoffs creates an identity that changes perceptions, but this window of a 90 +/- 2 win team is frustrating, with its big payroll and being the 11th oldest team in baseball.

 

Having said all that we could be the Mets, Padres, Rockies Angels and any other number of teams much worse off, so there is that, to keep perspective.

 

 

Nice recap! The only thing I'd argue is our offense is just not nearly as solid or consistant as the 2014-2016 Jays. Infact, I miss that team and run.

[DigitalRock]

Down to just 4 teams still without a 20 home run hitter this season:

 

#BlueJays (18 - Vladdy/Bo)

Cleveland (19 - Ramirez)

Cincinnati (18 - Steer)

San Francisco (18 - Flores)

 

Don’t think anyone expected this much regression.

[JFD]

No reason to continue hitting Vlad fourth. In fact I’d rather hit him lead off to limit all the GIDP he hits into

 

Worth a shot but he's only guaranteed to be leadoff for the first AB of the game. I'd like to see them bench his ass for an entire series. Cleveland series would be a good time for it since he'll likely get throated all weekend. Maybe angry Vlad is better? He can come back and destroy the Nats bottom 5 pitching staff and maybe get hot.