Around Baseball 2023

[Laika]

You know what other 24yo has a 150 wRC+? The most underrated dynasty asset in baseball, that’s who

 

You think Joyce Lewis is more underrated than Riley Greene? Interesting

[Orgfiller]

team is deep enough they can do that but they also changed his swing (not an easy thing to do with a palyer that's been arounmd for a while, but they did) https://www.ocregister.com/2023/03/25/dodgers-jason-heyward-calls-revamped-swing-a-work-in-progress/

 

While I'm sure there were mechanical swing changes involved, I'm pretty sure Heyward has changed his swing many times throughout the course of his career. I think it's been a big thing and a source of frustration with fans of the teams that have employed him. He never lived up to the offensive bar he put up in his rookie 20 year old season and bounced between awful to mediocre to somewhat above average offensively ever since. That's not to say he was a bust or his career hasn't been a productive one, but it's been a recurring theme for him to make changes to his swing that have had varying levels of success, or lack thereof.

[thatoneguy]

I thought the whole problem with the Trop (beyond the fact that it is a f***ing dump of a stadium) is because it is located in St. Petersburg.

[Brownie19]

Yeah I saw that today also. Interesting they aren't really changing the location at all.

[hanton]

While I'm sure there were mechanical swing changes involved, I'm pretty sure Heyward has changed his swing many times throughout the course of his career. I think it's been a big thing and a source of frustration with fans of the teams that have employed him. He never lived up to the offensive bar he put up in his rookie 20 year old season and bounced between awful to mediocre to somewhat above average offensively ever since. That's not to say he was a bust or his career hasn't been a productive one, but it's been a recurring theme for him to make changes to his swing that have had varying levels of success, or lack thereof.

 

Did you read the artticle that I posted?

 

Additionaly, the Dodgers have a very good track record of "fixing" hitters

 

taylor

muncy

turner

 

to name a few

[John_Havok]

I thought the whole problem with the Trop (beyond the fact that it is a f***ing dump of a stadium) is because it is located in St. Petersburg.

 

Here's a link to a more detailed story. Says talks with Tampa never got off the ground.

 

Stadium is only going to seat 30,000, fixed dome roof, artificial turf.

 

Artist rendering is pretty cool but yeah, hard to imagine it won't still have the same transportation issues the current dump has.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2023/09/18/stadium-gas-plant-district-2028-tropicana-field-stuart-sternberg/

[connorp]

You think Joyce Lewis is more underrated than Riley Greene? Interesting

 

Fangraphs snuck in a 70 raw power grade now all the sudden

 

Greene needs that pop at mlb level. Not there yet

[connorp]

I thought the whole problem with the Trop (beyond the fact that it is a f***ing dump of a stadium) is because it is located in St. Petersburg.

 

Yeah, beyond me why they wouldn’t be near TB. Ybor or something, even

[Brownie19]

Is transportation the MAJOR issue? I mean St. Petersburg is a beautiful area. It's too bad they couldn't put it down near the bay ala SF. You'd think they'd be able to figure out a solution to make transportation better.

[Stangstag]

Here's a link to a more detailed story. Says talks with Tampa never got off the ground.

 

Stadium is only going to seat 30,000, fixed dome roof, artificial turf.

 

Artist rendering is pretty cool but yeah, hard to imagine it won't still have the same transportation issues the current dump has.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2023/09/18/stadium-gas-plant-district-2028-tropicana-field-stuart-sternberg/

 

Why even bother with this if it’s going to be

- same location

- fixed roof again

- turf

 

These are all the biggest problems with the Trop are they not??

 

Seems like some grand money laundering scheme or something

[Omar]

Why even bother with this if it’s going to be

- same location

- fixed roof again

- turf

 

These are all the biggest problems with the Trop are they not??

 

Seems like some grand money laundering scheme or something

 

Why would they want to stay in St Petersburg? I guess they don't want people at games.

[John_Havok]

Why even bother with this if it’s going to be

- same location

- fixed roof again

- turf

 

These are all the biggest problems with the Trop are they not??

 

Seems like some grand money laundering scheme or something

 

no clue about the same location, but the fixed roof in Florida would seem to be a necessity due to the insane weather they have down there. Even with a retractable roof they'd probably have to have it closed 75% of the time, so no reason to spend the extra money - that would be my guess anyways.

 

And if you have a fixed roof, way harder and costlier to do real grass.

 

It's not even the fixed roof and turf that are are the real big problems, the real problem was transportation and that doesnt seem to have changed.

[Stangstag]

no clue about the same location, but the fixed roof in Florida would seem to be a necessity due to the insane weather they have down there. Even with a retractable roof they'd probably have to have it closed 75% of the time, so no reason to spend the extra money - that would be my guess anyways.

 

And if you have a fixed roof, way harder and costlier to do real grass.

 

Yeah, just seems like they are rebuilding a new stadium with the same problems.

 

Im just so sick of the “location” complaint for excusing TB’s lack of attendance. And then they go and put out this plan for a stadium in the same spot.

 

Miami has a great new stadium and they still have terrible attendance issues. Even when they were in the playoff hunt the last couple years throughout the summer.

 

Florida just doesn’t care about attending baseball games, plain and simple. Unless its the WBC of course

[John_Havok]

Im just so sick of the “location” complaint for excusing TB’s lack of attendance. And then they go and put out this plan for a stadium in the same spot.

 

Miami has a great new stadium and they still have terrible attendance issues. Even when they were in the playoff hunt the last couple years throughout the summer.

 

Florida just doesn’t care about attending baseball games, plain and simple. Unless its the WBC of course

 

Location isnt an issue with the Marlins, they've just been traditionally s***** for years.

 

People want to see the Rays (at least... I think?) but truly, getting to and from that Stadium is a nightmare. I did the drive when I was in Florida a few years ago and there's just no way I would do it even remotely regularly. The traffic getting in and out is akin to hitting yourself in the balls with a jackhammer.

[Stangstag]

Location isnt an issue with the Marlins, they've just been traditionally s***** for years.

 

People want to see the Rays (at least... I think?) but truly, getting to and from that Stadium is a nightmare. I did the drive when I was in Florida a few years ago and there's just no way I would do it even remotely regularly. The traffic getting in and out is akin to hitting yourself in the balls with a jackhammer.

 

Marlins are literally half game out of a playoff spot right now and have the 2nd worst attendance in the league after Oakland.

 

Tampa is 4th, beating only Oakland, Miami, and KC.

 

Florida is an embarrassment for MLB

[Laika]

It's weird because Florida is such a baseball hotbed

 

And it's not just that they don't support pro sports because the Lightning pull very will in the NHL

 

maybe it's like... you can drive 10 minutes anywhere in Florida and see entertaining baseball of some variety so why go all the way to St Pete or Miami?

[Orgfiller]

It's weird because Florida is such a baseball hotbed

 

And it's not just that they don't support pro sports because the Lightning pull very will in the NHL

 

maybe it's like... you can drive 10 minutes anywhere in Florida and see entertaining baseball of some variety so why go all the way to St Pete or Miami?

 

I feel like a big part of it is how many fans are transplants. Lots of NYY, Red Sox and Canadian snowbird fans down south. Obviously Florida also has a big Latin American community, and many of those fans are also Yankees or Red Sox (Big Papi) fans by default. Those games for the Rays probably average by far the most attendance, while Miami doesn't even get to see the Yankees all that much.

[BTS]

It's weird because Florida is such a baseball hotbed

 

And it's not just that they don't support pro sports because the Lightning pull very will in the NHL

 

maybe it's like... you can drive 10 minutes anywhere in Florida and see entertaining baseball of some variety so why go all the way to St Pete or Miami?

 

I think there's a cost to the way those teams do business as well. Winning matters more than anything, but fans get attached to individual players as well, and orgs that treat players like numbers on a spreadsheet don't seem to draw very well. Imagine the Dodgers trading Kershaw before the last year of his old long-term deal to maximize the value of their asset.

 

Chaim Bloom tried that TB s*** in Boston with a 1st ballot HoFer and was run out of town 3 years later.

[Stangstag]

It's weird because Florida is such a baseball hotbed

 

And it's not just that they don't support pro sports because the Lightning pull very will in the NHL

 

maybe it's like... you can drive 10 minutes anywhere in Florida and see entertaining baseball of some variety so why go all the way to St Pete or Miami?

 

Probably because Florida has a lot of people that are only there during the winter? Less people around in the summer months?? Idk.

[Grant77]

I thought the whole problem with the Trop (beyond the fact that it is a f***ing dump of a stadium) is because it is located in St. Petersburg.

 

Very disappointing news for all baseball fans outside of Tampa. Why are they doubling down in a state where baseball clearly doesn't work? A real fanbase deserves to watch and cheer for that team.

[Terminator]

Part of the problem in Florida is how oversaturated it is with sports. 3 NFL teams, 2 MLB teams, 2 NBA teams and two NHL teams. 9 teams is a lot.

 

On top of that, those pro sports also have to compete with college sports, especially college football which is probably the most popular sport in the state. So you can add in another 3 major teams (FSU, FU and Miami) to go along with another good team (UCF) and 3 other D1 teams (USF, FAU, FIU). Sports fans are getting spread pretty thin at this point.

 

Then there are a lot of transplants as people mentioned, combined with a lot of those teams being pretty new and also not having a ton of success. Just not a great way to build up a generational fandom.

[Laika]

Wander Franco being who he is is going to set the Rays back FOREVER on this too. Hahahah.

[Stangstag]

Part of the problem in Florida is how oversaturated it is with sports. 3 NFL teams, 2 MLB teams, 2 NBA teams and two NHL teams. 9 teams is a lot.

 

On top of that, those pro sports also have to compete with college sports, especially college football which is probably the most popular sport in the state. So you can add in another 3 major teams (FSU, FU and Miami) to go along with another good team (UCF) and 3 other D1 teams (USF, FAU, FIU). Sports fans are getting spread pretty thin at this point.

 

Then there are a lot of transplants as people mentioned, combined with a lot of those teams being pretty new and also not having a ton of success. Just not a great way to build up a generational fandom.

 

Do we really give a s*** WHY its a problem though? Things haven’t changed in decades. Its bad for baseball. Move the teams

[John_Havok]

Marlins are literally half game out of a playoff spot right now and have the 2nd worst attendance in the league after Oakland.

 

Tampa is 4th, beating only Oakland, Miami, and KC.

 

Florida is an embarrassment for MLB

 

Attendance always lags a bit behind when a team starts to get good after a long period of shittiness. Miami hasnt cracked 80 wins since 2010. They've been legit horrible. ANd they still had better attendance overall in 2010 as an 80 win team than the Jays did with an 85 win team.

 

It's just been way too damn long for them. Willing to bet next season they bounce back attendance wise pretty noticeably. Not to like, upper-echelon levels, but a bounce back for sure.

[Terminator]

Do we really give a s*** WHY its a problem though? Things haven’t changed in decades. Its bad for baseball. Move the teams

 

Why is probably worth exploring to see if it's fixable and IMO it's not given my stated reasons. But yeah you're right, they should move the team.

[Terminator]

Speaking of moving the Rays, would we even want them to move to Montreal? Seems like that would be a negative for the Jays right? Or would it even matter that much?

[glory]

I think Miami deserves a bit of a chance to see if a competitive team could bring fans in. That fanbase has been dicked over by ownership so often. If they had the Rays success, I think they'd draw better than the Rays do, but we won't know unless it happens.

 

I agree though, getting the Rays out of Florida and into a better baseball market would have been the ideal scenario. Even if they built a new stadium in Tampa, at least you could have spun that positively as it's moving the team to a better location. This is destined to fail. After the novelty of a new stadium wears off it will be right back to 10k a night. You see teams like the Reds and Pirates where clearly if they start to look good, then the fans will be there in droves. St Pete isn't that market.

[jaysblue]

I thought the whole problem with the Trop (beyond the fact that it is a f***ing dump of a stadium) is because it is located in St. Petersburg.

 

The waterfront and downtown St. Petersburg are beautiful. The Trop is located outside of the downtown near the freeways and there isn't much around in terms of bars/restaurants other than a couple spots.

[jaysblue]

Is transportation the MAJOR issue? I mean St. Petersburg is a beautiful area. It's too bad they couldn't put it down near the bay ala SF. You'd think they'd be able to figure out a solution to make transportation better.

 

There are no light rail trains in the Tampa/Clearwater area. Have to mainly get around by driving. The Trop is pretty far from the downtown area of St. Pete's in terms of walking distance and it's a bit of a drive from downtown Tampa and Clearwater. A ballpark on the waterfront in St. Pete's would be amazing, but not sure there is room.

Edited September 18, 2023 by jaysblue

[philly30]

I think Miami deserves a bit of a chance to see if a competitive team could bring fans in. That fanbase has been dicked over by ownership so often. If they had the Rays success, I think they'd draw better than the Rays do, but we won't know unless it happens.

 

I agree though, getting the Rays out of Florida and into a better baseball market would have been the ideal scenario. Even if they built a new stadium in Tampa, at least you could have spun that positively as it's moving the team to a better location. This is destined to fail. After the novelty of a new stadium wears off it will be right back to 10k a night. You see teams like the Reds and Pirates where clearly if they start to look good, then the fans will be there in droves. St Pete isn't that market.

 

Miami has a competitive team