Around Baseball 2023

[Laika]

I don’t hate that Soto trade for Detroit. He’s utterly replaceable. They got three 40 FV prospects or young MLB players. Depth it always a problem for the Tigers.

[Terminator]

Maton did show some signs of life with his bat in both AAA and in a brief stint in MLB. If that's an indicator of some sort of improvement he could be a useful piece, particularly because he bats left.

[Orgfiller]

I don’t hate that Soto trade for Detroit. He’s utterly replaceable. They got three 40 FV prospects or young MLB players. Depth it always a problem for the Tigers.

 

I don’t hate the trade in a vacuum for them from a pure value standpoint, but I feel like for how bad Detroit is, trading Jose Alvarado lite for three entirely unsexy guys without any ceiling seems like a waste. Like, the Phillies couldn’t have given them some 18 year old likely bust in the DSL with 70 raw power or some other young fireballer that they would need to develop from scratch?

 

I just don’t see what long term value Detroit gets out of Maton and Vierling who are basically replacement level quad A guys when they should be trying to luck into a Shields for Tatis Jr. type of trade to turn their franchise around. I guess it’s two warm bodies that replace some of their legitimately below replacement level guys but if you’re as bad as them already you might as well just tank with those guys.

[Orgfiller]

In the past 5-6 years the Dodgers have traded Yordan Alvarez for Josh Fields and Oneil Cruz for Tony Watson. If Detroit wants to turn their s*** around they need to capitalize on the only guys they have of some value and move them for those sorts of pieces and hope one of them breaks out.

[Terminator]

Vierling has an interesting statcast page to say the least.

 

He hits the ball hard but doesn't barrel it?

 

But The highlight might be his 97th percentile sprint speed combined with a 5th percentile OF jump lol. Overall he's smack in the middle for OAA.

[Stangstag]

Vierling has an interesting statcast page to say the least.

 

He hits the ball hard but doesn't barrel it?

 

But The highlight might be his 97th percentile sprint speed combined with a 5th percentile OF jump lol. Overall he's smack in the middle for OAA.

 

Lol wow sounds like Tapia

[Dick_Pole]

Lol I almost forgot that 90 percent of you in some poll picked Bellinger over KK and then tried fighting me IRL for picking KK.

 

Then the worst franchise in sports history picked Bellinger and the Jays got KK. Lmao

 

Bellinger signed with the Leafs?

 

I know people like coming in with emotions over facts on this board, but the Leafs and Cubs are nowhere near the worst franchises in pro sports. They are both probably in the top half of their sports. Like it or not, the Leafs bought themselves a lot of credibility points back when there was 6-8 teams in the NHL and hardly anyone who saw those teams are still alive. Cubs might have gone over 100 years without a World Series victory, but their team was mostly just mediocre, never bad. The Jays have an equal amount of 100 loss seasons as the Cubs do in 100 less years of existence.

 

The Phillies are the worst MLB franchise. The most losses of any pro sports team in the Universe. I say Universe because I assume some civilization with a billion year head start would have had the good sense to disband a pro sports team before they hit 11,000 losses. Padres and Rockies are next up, avoiding the worst franchise fate only because they were expansion teams and haven't had a chance to suck as long as the Phillies have. Marlins get a break because they somehow snuck in two World Series victories within their s*** history. Honourable mentions to the St. Louis Browns before they became the Orioles and the Washington Senators sucking twice, then losing their team, twice.

 

In terms of overall sports the Arizona Cardinals are like the Leafs since 1967 but the St. Louis Browns before 1967. Clippers obviously in the NBA, plus the T-Wolves. NHL is kind of hard to come up with the worst teams since teams aren't that laughably anemic like in other sports. Maybe the Canucks? They've gone about as long without a Cup win as the Leafs plus they put up s***** regular seasons too.

 

So yeah, any one of those teams I mentioned make acceptable or defendable cases as the worst teams ever. But not the Cubs nor Leafs. Anyone who chooses them is just laughably wrong.

[Jimcanuck]

Washington Generals are the worst pro team ever.

[Carlos Danger]

Pollock is off the board, he is hanging with Teo and is an M. Oh well..

[Terminator]

I know people like coming in with emotions over facts on this board, but the Leafs and Cubs are nowhere near the worst franchises in pro sports. They are both probably in the top half of their sports. Like it or not, the Leafs bought themselves a lot of credibility points back when there was 6-8 teams in the NHL and hardly anyone who saw those teams are still alive. Cubs might have gone over 100 years without a World Series victory, but their team was mostly just mediocre, never bad. The Jays have an equal amount of 100 loss seasons as the Cubs do in 100 less years of existence.

 

The Phillies are the worst MLB franchise. The most losses of any pro sports team in the Universe. I say Universe because I assume some civilization with a billion year head start would have had the good sense to disband a pro sports team before they hit 11,000 losses. Padres and Rockies are next up, avoiding the worst franchise fate only because they were expansion teams and haven't had a chance to suck as long as the Phillies have. Marlins get a break because they somehow snuck in two World Series victories within their s*** history. Honourable mentions to the St. Louis Browns before they became the Orioles and the Washington Senators sucking twice, then losing their team, twice.

 

In terms of overall sports the Arizona Cardinals are like the Leafs since 1967 but the St. Louis Browns before 1967. Clippers obviously in the NBA, plus the T-Wolves. NHL is kind of hard to come up with the worst teams since teams aren't that laughably anemic like in other sports. Maybe the Canucks? They've gone about as long without a Cup win as the Leafs plus they put up s***** regular seasons too.

 

So yeah, any one of those teams I mentioned make acceptable or defendable cases as the worst teams ever. But not the Cubs nor Leafs. Anyone who chooses them is just laughably wrong.

 

Thank you but the very detailed nuance you provided doesn't allow me to dunk on all the Bellinger fanboys as easily so I'm just going to stick with the Cubs.

[Grant77]

Rangers, Rays or (most likely) Japan for Bauer. I used to like him but the guy is a dipshit for slapping around the town bike in the Me Too era, whether she asked for it or not. Sayonara pal.

 

And lol @ anyone suggesting the Jays should sign him. I can't think of another team in the league less likely to sign him than us.

 

I think he goes to Boston. They check lots of boxes.

 

- They desperately need him.

- They have a long, long history of employing players with shady pasts.

- They employ Chris Sale and Alex Cora, so they don't care much about character.

- Their fanbase would care less than any other team.

[Grant77]

I know people like coming in with emotions over facts on this board, but the Leafs and Cubs are nowhere near the worst franchises in pro sports. They are both probably in the top half of their sports. Like it or not, the Leafs bought themselves a lot of credibility points back when there was 6-8 teams in the NHL and hardly anyone who saw those teams are still alive. Cubs might have gone over 100 years without a World Series victory, but their team was mostly just mediocre, never bad. The Jays have an equal amount of 100 loss seasons as the Cubs do in 100 less years of existence.

 

The Phillies are the worst MLB franchise. The most losses of any pro sports team in the Universe. I say Universe because I assume some civilization with a billion year head start would have had the good sense to disband a pro sports team before they hit 11,000 losses. Padres and Rockies are next up, avoiding the worst franchise fate only because they were expansion teams and haven't had a chance to suck as long as the Phillies have. Marlins get a break because they somehow snuck in two World Series victories within their s*** history. Honourable mentions to the St. Louis Browns before they became the Orioles and the Washington Senators sucking twice, then losing their team, twice.

 

In terms of overall sports the Arizona Cardinals are like the Leafs since 1967 but the St. Louis Browns before 1967. Clippers obviously in the NBA, plus the T-Wolves. NHL is kind of hard to come up with the worst teams since teams aren't that laughably anemic like in other sports. Maybe the Canucks? They've gone about as long without a Cup win as the Leafs plus they put up s***** regular seasons too.

 

So yeah, any one of those teams I mentioned make acceptable or defendable cases as the worst teams ever. But not the Cubs nor Leafs. Anyone who chooses them is just laughably wrong.

 

You have to mention the Detroit Lions, who have gone 55 seasons without making the Superbowl. They might be worse than the Cardinals.

 

There really can't be any debate about baseball. It's the Seattle Mariners by a country mile. They have gone 56 seasons without making the World Series and have 2 separate playoff droughts of 18 and 20 seasons. The Phillies were better in 2022 than the Mariners have ever been and have been to the World Series 5 other times since 1977, along with 2 Championships.

[Carlos Danger]

You have to mention the Detroit Lions, who have gone 55 seasons without making the Superbowl. They might be worse than the Cardinals.

 

There really can't be any debate about baseball, it's the Seattle Mariners by a country mile. They have gone 56 seasons without making the World Series and have 2 separate playoff droughts of 18 and 20 seasons. The Phillies were better in 2022 than they have ever been.

 

The Mariners started the same year as the Blue Jays. How have they gone 56 yrs??

[Grant77]

Obviously a typo, given that it is 46 years. That fact that there are two 18+ year droughts within that span is quite remarkable.

[Ray]

AJ Pollock to the Mariners, 1 year $7M. Presumably to platoon with Kelenic and/or provide a little bit of protection in case he continues to struggle in the majors. Awful against RHP, but absolutely mashed LHP last year.

[TorontonianJD]

Bob Nightengale rumour...

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/01/06/dodgers-decision-part-ways-trevor-bauer/11004427002/

 

What a scathing article! Wow

[Pendleton]

[Grant77]

 

Sportsnet and Marquee are essentially the same thing. I like both.

[jerb]

 

Chicago White Sox

@whitesox

 

Earlier Sunday evening, Liam Hendriks announced he is beginning treatment tomorrow for Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma. We’re all with you, Liam!

[L54]

Man that sucks. Good luck to him in his recovery.

 

One of the worst trades in recent memory for the Jays. One year of Jesse Chavez for however many years Hendriks had left.

[Spanky__99]

 

Chicago White Sox

@whitesox

 

Earlier Sunday evening, Liam Hendriks announced he is beginning treatment tomorrow for Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma. We’re all with you, Liam!

 

s***... f*** cancer.

[The_DH]

s***... f*** cancer.

 

Amen!

[Terminator]

 

I can't tell which ones I like most as they all seem pretty similar for the most part.

 

Sportsnet's seems fine. It gives a little more info than most of the others. I don't like the white background with the logo though. They should go with this logo and make the entire upper part of it blue as the white sticks out like a sore thumb. Maybe that's what they want but it doesn't look right.

 

[Dick_Pole]

You have to mention the Detroit Lions, who have gone 55 seasons without making the Superbowl. They might be worse than the Cardinals.

 

There really can't be any debate about baseball. It's the Seattle Mariners by a country mile. They have gone 56 seasons without making the World Series and have 2 separate playoff droughts of 18 and 20 seasons. The Phillies were better in 2022 than the Mariners have ever been and have been to the World Series 5 other times since 1977, along with 2 Championships.

 

I reject your assertion that it's the Mariners by the country mile. I'll play along with your recency bias and ignore the fact that the Phillies didn't whiff a championship for their first 90 years of existence, twice that of Seattle's age. But I won't play along with the Padres. The Padres have a .464 all-time winning percentage versus the Mariners at .474. The Padres may have had 7 playoff appearances in 54 years versus Seattle's 5 in 46, a slightly better ratio. But the Mariners had two years of 93 wins and one year at 90 where they missed the playoffs. Those three seasons basically bookend their drought. San Diego got snubbed once in 2010 with 90 wins, but also have a division pennant with 82. Seattle's lack of franchise success has been impacted by being in a historically more competitive division/league. Put the Padres in the AL and the Mariners in the NL and those two playoff appearances is 2005 and 2006 disappear for the Padres and they have a longer drought than Seattle*.

 

*Depending on the outcome of a Padres tiebreaker against the Rangers in 2010.

 

 

The Lions pick is a decent choice though.

[Olerud363]

I reject your assertion that it's the Mariners by the country mile. I'll play along with your recency bias and ignore the fact that the Phillies didn't whiff a championship for their first 90 years of existence, twice that of Seattle's age. But I won't play along with the Padres. The Padres have a .464 all-time winning percentage versus the Mariners at .474. The Padres may have had 7 playoff appearances in 54 years versus Seattle's 5 in 46, a slightly better ratio. But the Mariners had two years of 93 wins and one year at 90 where they missed the playoffs.

 

The Seattle thing apparently stems from last year (2021) where Grant got into it with someone (not me) about the Mariners being a fluke. The weird thing is he was actually right in 2021 but he has continued the Seattle is awful narrative through 2022 when it no longer made sense. His dig at Seattle is just a passive aggressive continuation of that argument.

 

I haven't followed the board closely but I am curious if Grant ripped the Varsho trade with the same passion he ripped Seattle in the fall?? His argument in the fall was Seattle had an historically low batting average (.230) so was an awful offensive team, even though they were an above average offensive team factoring in walks, power, park factors and 2022 norms.

 

So does he hate Varsho? If he hates low batting averages, even if they come with power, a few walks and defense, he should hate Varsho, as Varsho is like a 2022 Mariner... If he doesn't hate Varsho then that seems strange, given his hate of the .230 batting average no matter what else it comes with.

[Olerud363]

I think he goes to Boston. They check lots of boxes.

 

- They desperately need him.

- They have a long, long history of employing players with shady pasts.

- They employ Chris Sale and Alex Cora, so they don't care much about character.

- Their fanbase would care less than any other team.

 

Have you ever even spent time in New England? It is arguably the most progressive region of the United States. It is so progressive even the Republicans have to be sane. This is the region where the people voted for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. And many of the progressives are baseball fans, so this fanbase would probably be as upset as any if a controversial figure like Bauer was on the team.

 

Are you seriously suggesting the New England fanbase would care less about this issue then the St. Louis or Kansas City or Astros fanbase?

[John_Havok]

posted as Neilburg Sask is my hometown and his short stay there was still talked about years later. Population at that time would have been .. like 300 at best. It's about 400 now.

 

R.I.P. Bill Campbell

Former Expo pitched in Neilburg, Saskatchewan and served close to a year in the Vietnam War

By Danny Gallagher

 

Canadian Baseball Network

 

Bill Campbell began his adult baseball career at age 19 with the Neilburg Monarchs of the Northern Saskatchewan league in 1966.

 

And he finished his big-league career in 1987 with another Canadian team, the Montreal Expos.

 

He's the only known Expos player to serve in the Vietnam War. He joined the U.S. Army about a year after he left Neilburg and was in Vietnam for just under 12 months on jungle patrol and as a radio/teletype operator.

 

Soup Campbell was one of the finest relief pitchers in major-league history. He's the only player in the majors to record at least 17 wins and 17 saves in the same season, a feat he accomplished with the Minnesota Twins in 1976, going 17-5 with 20 saves in a league-leading 78 appearances in 167.2 innings.

 

Only Pittsburgh Pirates’ ace reliever and former Expo ElRoy Face had a season with more wins without a start when he marvelled with a 18-1 record in 1959.

 

Campbell, 74, died Jan. 6 after spending more than two weeks in hospice care in the Chicago area where he lived. He had been suffering from cancer. His wife Linda called the Twins' Fantasy Camp headquarters in Fort Myers, Florida to report his death.

At the tail end of his career at age 38, Campbell caught on with the Expos, signing a contract during spring training on March 6, 1987. He made the roster out of West Palm Beach and pitched in 10 regular-season games with middling results before he was released May 1. His last strikeout victim in his long career was Gary Carter in Campbell's final outing on April 30.

 

Campbell's stint with in Neilburg was memorable. He flew into Edmonton from California on June 18 and then he was picked up at the Husky bus stop by teammates Glen Brockhoff and Larry Flecik and a friend Glen Hinch in Lloydminster which straddles the Saskatchewan/Alberta border.

 

"Bill didn't have a dime in his pocket. We paid for his hamburger and a Coca Cola. Then, we had a few beers at the Neilburg Hotel, the only bar in town. It was a Saturday night,'' Brockhoff said.

 

The next day, June 19, Campbell made his debut with Neilburg and it was a memorable one. He fired a no-hitter, one batter short of a perfect game in a seven-inning game, the nightcap of a doubleheader. He struck out 10 to lead the Monarchs to a 5-0 victory over North Battleford. Jay Johnston reached on an error in the seventh to break up the perfect game. Campbell finished that season with a 5-3 record and a 3.46 ERA. He also batted .270 with four homers and 13 RBI in 23 games.

 

At the 1966 Saskatoon Exhibition Tournament, Campbell fanned 14 and hit two triples as Neilburg won the championship game.

 

"Campbell was 6-foot-3, real slim and he could throw hard. He had a great slider and curveball,'' Flecik said. When Brockhoff saw Campbell pitch that no-hitter, he knew right then and there he had major-league stuff.

"Oh, he was an awful good American in this town,'' Brockhoff said. "What impressed me in batting practice was when he was in the outfield. He was unbelievable. He'd catch fly balls behind his back. He was really good. If the ball was hit over the fence, he'd jump over the short, wooden fence and catch the ball.''

 

Several years after leaving Vietnam, Campbell was signed as a free agent by the Twins at a Dennys restaurant in Ponoma, Calif., the same Dennys where Bob James was signed by the Expos in 1976. After leaving the Twins, Campbell spent time with the Red Sox, Cubs, Tigers, Phillies, Cardinals and the Expos.

 

"We are going to miss him at Twins Fantasy Camp this week. He was our coach who led all the stretching exercises and got the campers in shape on day one. Such a good person,'' said Campbell's Florida friend Chad Yoder. "We start tomorrow (Jan. 7). We will have our banquet and of course, announce that (sad news) at the banquet. I'm going to challenge all my friends and teammates to bring in a can of Campbell Soup to put in his locker and then I will donate it to a needy organization after the camp in his honor.''

Campbell is survived by his wife Linda, a professor of psychology at Harper College in Palatine, Illinois, and three children.

 

Danny Gallagher's story about Campbell contains information obtained from a chapter in his new Expos book Around The Horn, which is due for release in mid-January.

[Grant77]

I reject your assertion that it's the Mariners by the country mile. I'll play along with your recency bias and ignore the fact that the Phillies didn't whiff a championship for their first 90 years of existence, twice that of Seattle's age. But I won't play along with the Padres. The Padres have a .464 all-time winning percentage versus the Mariners at .474. The Padres may have had 7 playoff appearances in 54 years versus Seattle's 5 in 46, a slightly better ratio. But the Mariners had two years of 93 wins and one year at 90 where they missed the playoffs. Those three seasons basically bookend their drought. San Diego got snubbed once in 2010 with 90 wins, but also have a division pennant with 82. Seattle's lack of franchise success has been impacted by being in a historically more competitive division/league. Put the Padres in the AL and the Mariners in the NL and those two playoff appearances is 2005 and 2006 disappear for the Padres and they have a longer drought than Seattle*.

 

*Depending on the outcome of a Padres tiebreaker against the Rangers in 2010.

 

 

The Lions pick is a decent choice though.

 

I understand that the drought for the Phillies is a big mark against them and didn't ignore it, but they have had considerable success since then and the level of overall futility is nowhere close. Even at their awful pace, they would have 3 pennants in 46 years.

 

I don't think it's as simple as going by all time winning percentage. The Marlins are the worst in the league by that metric, but surely their playoff success negates some of that.

 

The Padres have also made two World Series, while the Mariners are the only franchise in the league to never win a pennant. As far as fan experience goes, I think that matters a lot more than the overall record in a bunch of losing seasons. When you miss the playoffs for a full two decades (basically twice), it doesn't really matter if the team is 78-84 or 68-94. We know that as Blue Jays fans.

 

That's just my 2 cents. I understand the individual regular season games are much more important to you and that's valid as well.

[wilko]

I can't tell which ones I like most as they all seem pretty similar for the most part.

 

Sportsnet's seems fine. It gives a little more info than most of the others. I don't like the white background with the logo though. They should go with this logo and make the entire upper part of it blue as the white sticks out like a sore thumb. Maybe that's what they want but it doesn't look right.

 

 

Not sure if it's because it's the one I see the most but I like the SportsNet one. I also agree.... use the blue logo.

[jaysblue]

Yeah the Marlins have been one of the worst teams in baseball when you look at their regular season success, though they have two World Series (1997 and 2003) since 1993 so in their 30 years of existence. However since even 2003, the team has been not relevant at all other than grabbing a Wild Card spot in 2020.

 

The Rays have had regular season success most years since 2008 so 10 years after they were established. However, haven't won a World Series.

 

As a fan, would be a lot more fun watching the Rays instead of the Marlins given their consistent success mostly every season. Whereas tough being a Marlins fans for 2-3 decades, but hey they won two World Series.