Fire John Schneider

[Stangstag]

 

Holy s*** I completely forgot about Zach Pop

[Stangstag]

This appears to show that the Jays relievers have been victimized by quite a few home runs which barely left the park. I do find it a little confusing though. With Swanson in particular, he's shown to have given up 4 home runs in total. This system classifies 4 of them as doubters, as they would have only left in 1-7 parks. The part where I'm not following is that he's also classified as having 3 home runs that were mostly gone, as they would have left 8-29 parks. Then at the same time 1 of them was classified as a no doubter. I don't understand how a player can have allowed 4 home runs, all of which were classified as doubters, 3 of which as mostly gone, and 1 of which as a no doubter. Each home should only be classified once right?

 

I think its including flyballs that didn't leave the park but could have in other parks. Ex: deep flyout to RF in Fenway

[Laika]

This appears to show that the Jays relievers have been victimized by quite a few home runs which barely left the park. I do find it a little confusing though. With Swanson in particular, he's shown to have given up 4 home runs in total. This system classifies 4 of them as doubters, as they would have only left in 1-7 parks. The part where I'm not following is that he's also classified as having 3 home runs that were mostly gone, as they would have left 8-29 parks. Then at the same time 1 of them was classified as a no doubter. I don't understand how a player can have allowed 4 home runs, all of which were classified as doubters, 3 of which as mostly gone, and 1 of which as a no doubter. Each home should only be classified once right?

 

The doubters and mostly gone are not necessarily HRs

[max silver]

I think its including flyballs that didn't leave the park but could have in other parks. Ex: deep flyout to RF in Fenway

 

Ah that makes more sense. I thought this system only showed actual home runs which were allowed, and not fly balls with potential to leave various ballparks.

[John_Havok]

BTW if a mod wants to move those posts to the general thread or the BP thread (if that's possible?) that's fine. I dont mean to hijack the Schneider firing thread.

[JaysAllMighty]

Another game yesterday with questionable decisions by Schneider. He is not helping our chances.

[wilko]

It's hilarious that this thread is silent until the Jays lose a game again then it's back to bashing Schneider.

 

Don't worry Schneider's going to stick around. If they fire him Atkins will have to go with him. I can't see that happening unless they really s*** the bed.

[BlueBaller]

John Schneider, you are also a fat bastard.

[Captain_Obvious]

Schneider is a f***ing idiot. He is getting dumber by the day. Single handedly lost the game today. Bad BP, pinch hitting, and pinch running decisions all at once. Hard to top the stupidity displayed in this game but I am sure he will find a way.

[Jays24]

When are people going to realize this is our management's philosophy. Montoyo and Schneider were/are just puppets. It's been 8 years and this front office has gotten the highest payroll relatively in baseball and that's before the Bo/Vlad extensions.

 

Not to mention the whole "sustainable winning" theme they've been mentioning since they got here has 0 relevance with a joke of a minor league system we have. Shapiro crucified AA for killing the farm system and yet they've done the same thing with worse results.

 

The biggest things this front office will be known for is getting AA kicked out the door and building/renovating facilities lol. Not a damn thing on the field, which is all I truly care about.

[BigCecil]

When are people going to realize this is our management's philosophy. Montoyo and Schneider were/are just puppets. It's been 8 years and this front office has gotten the highest payroll relatively in baseball and that's before the Bo/Vlad extensions.

 

Not to mention the whole "sustainable winning" theme they've been mentioning since they got here has 0 relevance with a joke of a minor league system we have. Shapiro crucified AA for killing the farm system and yet they've done the same thing with worse results.

 

The biggest things this front office will be known for is getting AA kicked out the door and building/renovating facilities lol. Not a damn thing on the field, which is all I truly care about.

 

I think this is over stated but you aren't all wrong. There is a chance we look back on this Bo/Vlad era/window and the 2021 season was actually our best team and chance.

 

I think a lot of the debate around this FO comes down to how Rogers defines a "sustainable winner". If its being "competitive" each season with a huge payroll and being around 88-92 W's because thats enough to keep fans going to games and watching, then its probably successful by that pure business standard for Rogers.

 

Its part of the renos at Rogers Center reasoning. They want to attract casuals and corporate fans to the whole experience and give it a buzz. I mean look at SEA this weekend. Packed with Jays fans even after getting swept there last year for 4 and f***ing ourselves in the playoffs against them. Jose's Level of Excellent honoring game in August is a sell out already.

 

For all Shapiro's comments in August 2017 about "waves" coming up from the farm in 2-4 years, its not transpired in terms of big impact players other than the obvious 2. And even there Vlad, who AA signed, has struggled to meet the potential. Same with Manoah. We drafted and/or traded for then dealt Gunner, SWR, Martin, Groshans, Moreno etc and jacked payroll. Easy to critique those guys as prospects/players in hindsight, but we brought them to this org and they were to be our top prospects.

 

Some of their FA signings have been solid so far for sure. But to be honest, I had hoped that that element of this FO would not be their signature moves.

 

On another note, compared to the Mets and SDP so far, we are doing well this year lol

[Omar]

Yesterday’s terrible loss notwithstanding, we are 10 games above .500 and about to play the 100th game of the season and only 5.5 games back of the best record in the American League. This team has yet to hit on all cyclinders so there is that as well.

 

Adding Ryu and Green will not make this team worse.

[max silver]

Schneider is a f***ing idiot. He is getting dumber by the day. Single handedly lost the game today. Bad BP, pinch hitting, and pinch running decisions all at once. Hard to top the stupidity displayed in this game but I am sure he will find a way.

 

The players on the field didn't get the job done yesterday. I don't agree with the choices that were made with regards to the substitutions on the field but the manager can't swing the bat, run the bases, pitch for the team or play a position in the field.

 

It seems like Schneider saves his worst decisions for games against the Mariners. Last year's playoff meltdown featured several questionable moves, the game at the end of April had a lot of questionable moves, and last night's game also featured plenty of questionable moves as well.

[Stangstag]

The players on the field didn't get the job done yesterday. I don't agree with the choices that were made with regards to the substitutions on the field but the manager can't swing the bat, run the bases, pitch for the team or play a position in the field.

 

It seems like Schneider saves his worst decisions for games against the Mariners. Last year's playoff meltdown featured several questionable moves, the game at the end of April had a lot of questionable moves, and last night's game also featured plenty of questionable moves as well.

 

The last few losses against the Mariners have been absolute gut-wrenchers.

 

- Last night

- that game we came back after the first inning grand slam but still blew it

- playoff game 2

 

Like goddamn, Ms are the pest that won’t go away

[hanton]

How many GM's last after going through 3 field managers in 8 seasons? that's a new manager every 2.5 seasons

 

I'd fire Atkins before firing Schneider - which is a totally different conversation

[Krylian]

Didn't Schneider just tie Cito Gaston this week for fastest ever Blue Jays manager to 100 wins?

 

Let's fire him!

[Spanky__99]

Didn't Schneider just tie Cito Gaston this week for fastest ever Blue Jays manager to 100 wins?

 

Let's fire him!

 

Yup.

[Spanky__99]

How many GM's last after going through 3 field managers in 8 seasons? that's a new manager every 2.5 seasons

 

I'd fire Atkins before firing Schneider - which is a totally different conversation

 

2, Gibby walked(wasn't in on a rebuild/retool)... so Montoyo and Schneider.

[hanton]

2, Gibby walked(wasn't in on a rebuild/retool)... so Montoyo and Schneider.

 

"Ultimately, we decided it was time for a new approach, a new voice," general manager Ross Atkins said.

 

he was fired

[hanton]

You can call it a graceful departure

[Spanky__99]

"Ultimately, we decided it was time for a new approach, a new voice," general manager Ross Atkins said.

 

he was fired

 

Ah... I think I'm mixing him up with AA, then. I do recall Gibby mentioning he didn't want to go through a rebuild.

[hanton]

Ah... I think I'm mixing him up with AA, then. I do recall Gibby mentioning he didn't want to go through a rebuild.

 

yea AA left for sure on his own because IIRC he was offered a contract

[glory]

Gibby was definitely fired. All you have to do is look at how Buntoyo and Schneider manage to see the type Atkins wanted. Gibby was not that guy.

[Casual Fan]

Jays need a manager who has established track record and can motivate his players and get the best out of the players. Unfortunately, Schneider is not the one

 

Metrics and analyses are secondary, many people can do those.

[G-Snarls]

How come Mattingly could never hold down a job as manager?

 

What have his issues been

[hanton]

How come Mattingly could never hold down a job as manager?

 

What have his issues been

 

Marlins never won under him, he was better with the Dodgers but still never won, who knows really - not every ex player no matter how good automatically makes a good field manager

[Omar]

How come Mattingly could never hold down a job as manager?

 

What have his issues been

 

Great players rarely make great coaches regardless of the sport.

[Olerud363]

How many GM's last after going through 3 field managers in 8 seasons? that's a new manager every 2.5 seasons

 

I'd fire Atkins before firing Schneider - which is a totally different conversation

 

I'm rarely in on the fire-the-manager threads (though I'm all-in on 'release Vlad' threads ironically)...

 

Reason in Manager doesn't have that much effect on the outcomes. Like the entire stupid 'Charlie bunted at the wrong time' and changed the win probabilities by nothing.

 

The bullpen use seems different because of the issue of downstream effects, like did one move (pulling Kikuchi) early led to 2 losses?

 

Replacing 2 Kikuchi innings with a Richards and Swanson inning is on the surface not much, but it was 1 Kikuchi inning replaced by a tired Swanson, then a fresh Swanson (Saturday) inning replaced by tired Garcia, then the overall effect of pitching these relievers 75 games instead of 50.

 

I've probably argued the other side (pitchers should be pulled early) because the '3rd time through the order' stats indicate that is true. I probably have to rethink that because I wasn't considering the 'next day' effect on Bullpen and cumulative season effect.. I guess need stats on Reliever fatigue.

[Jays333]

Pretty sure Schneider is just Atkins little analytics puppet at this point. Does he even make any of the decisions lol?

[Stangstag]

Pretty sure Schneider is just Atkins little analytics puppet at this point. Does he even make any of the decisions lol?

 

I doubt he makes any decisions beyond who bats where in the lineup