Fire John Schneider

[Jimcanuck]

Is there any evidence that managers who blow up and yell at umpires actually get better results than those who choose not to? I guess it may give the appearance to the players that the manager has their back when they feel they are getting the shaft.

 

No, but assertiveness is a leadership trait. I suspect Montoyo was perceived as a weakling, certainly not a leader.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Agree that the FO thought JS would be a better fit for the team. Just like a player, if the front office and manager thinks a bench player is better than a starter then the

"bench player" gets the playing time.

[wilko]

This could certainly be true and would support the narrative that the players weren't surprised. I believe it was known the Jays were always worried that another would swoop in and steal Schneider - perhaps his voice was growing larger and larger in the clubhouse and the players and FO could tell it was time for him to lead the team.

 

When teams start having a bunch of player only meetings, it usually means somethings up.

[G-Snarls]

John Gibbons was on MLB Network this morning. Among many great comments was when he was asked about managing again. His reply: "to get a management job these days you pretty much have to tell them you're willing to take your marching orders from the front office... and that ain't me"

 

(slight paraphrase will see if I can find clip later for his exact wording)

[Spanky__99]

Too early for me to have much of a view on Schneider. The false narratives began almost immediately. They seem to zig and zag depending on if we win or lose. Most of his decisions so far seem pretty milquetoast. The "aggressiveness" on the bases the jury is still out on for me. Some guys are running that shouldn't be. Dumb. And Espy bunting is dumb for so many reasons, not the least of which is he is terrible at it. I like his on the field and media persona we see, whatever that is worth. I like that he isn't afraid to change the line up order. Also a plus he is bongo-free.

 

Madden went from being seen as cutting edge with the Rays, and winning a WS with Cubs to being seen as a past his prime dinosaur. Listened to a decent interview with him yesterday about how FO's are f***ing up baseball in his view. Too much focus on analytics (even though we was an early proponent and remains one). Said the numbers guys and FO's are just having too much impact on field decisions.

 

He said he wants to hear the information but then make baseball decisions - keep the numbers guys out of his office kind of thing. Was interesting. He also said he isn't a bitter grumpy old man lol

 

I posted that interview a while back, was an interesting read.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2022/08/20/fired-angels-manager-joe-maddon-having-a-blast-and-blasting-how-some-teams-are-run/

 

I see he went off again about that on Stark's podcast... I guess that's what you listened too, pretty neat stuff.

 

https://theathletic.com/3568605/2022/09/06/joe-maddon-analytics-baseball/#_=_

Edited September 8, 2022 by Spanky99

[Spanky__99]

It's also possible that the Montoyo firing was as much about Schneider as it was Charlie.

 

Like maybe before they weren't quite sure about Schneider but over time they came to see him as a competent manager. And then this year saw him as potentially better than Charlie for various reasons. So the team slump was a good time to make the change.

 

Pretty much this, had to shake the team up.

[Terminator]

John Gibbons was on MLB Network this morning. Among many great comments was when he was asked about managing again. His reply: "to get a management job these days you pretty much have to tell them you're willing to take your marching orders from the front office... and that ain't me"

 

(slight paraphrase will see if I can find clip later for his exact wording)

 

Make Gibbons the GM and Manager. Problem solved.

[BigCecil]

I posted that interview a while back, was an interesting read.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2022/08/20/fired-angels-manager-joe-maddon-having-a-blast-and-blasting-how-some-teams-are-run/

 

I see he went off again about that on Stark's podcast... I guess that's what you listened too, pretty neat stuff.

 

https://theathletic.com/3568605/2022/09/06/joe-maddon-analytics-baseball/#_=_

 

Yep. thats what I listened to. It was interesting. Although I shudder to think Tony LaRussa needs more autonomy on field decisions.

[Skinny Wolf]

Except some questionable BP moves, Schneider has done a good job. Pretty sure he will be the manager for next season.

[Omar]

Except some questionable BP moves, Schneider has done a good job. Pretty sure he will be the manager for next season.

 

If we win the East, he's manager of the year in my books.

[WryNGinger]

I 100% think we would not be in this position if Bongos was still the manager...no chance...

[Krylian]

29-17 since he took over if I'm not mistaken. I'll take that.

[Krylian]

29-18 now. Fire him

[Spanky__99]

He seems decent but the fact that he keeps playing Kikuchi tells me that he's a yes man and does what he's told from higher up so I don't know?

 

When your boss *Tells you* what to do, you do it, it's certainly not on him if so, but the pen work has been fine.

[Spanky__99]

I get what you are saying but ideally the Manager of the team should be the boss and run the team as he sees fit otherwise maybe the higher ups should sit in the dugout. I have to disagree with what you say about his bullpen performance, they should have taken him up on his offer to go back to the minors.

 

K.....

[Spanky__99]

You must be a yes man in your job as well.

 

Sexy retort. It is what it is. Dumnass!

[Spanky__99]

Cuck.

 

Kook.

[wilko]

29-18 now. Fire him

 

#BringBackGibbyForRound3

[BigCecil]

#BringBackGibbyForRound3

 

Ill pass and stick with JS for now.

 

If not for Andrus dropping the easy throw, Gibby's call for a Goins sac bunt to Beltre of all f***ing people (only one of the greatest 3B ever, who promptly wheels and throws it to Andrus - 100% predictable) probably results in 2 outs and no Jose HR = we lose Gm 5 vs Texas 2015.

 

Also I had enough EEEEEEEZZZZ-EEEEEKKK-IELLLLLLL.

 

Movin' on

[Stangstag]

Ill pass and stick with JS for now.

 

If not for Andrus dropping the easy throw, Gibby's call for a Goins sac bunt to Beltre of all f***ing people (only one of the greatest 3B ever, who promptly wheels and throws it to Andrus - 100% predictable) probably results in 2 outs and no Jose HR = we lose Gm 5 vs Texas 2015.

 

Also I had enough EEEEEEEZZZZ-EEEEEKKK-IELLLLLLL.

 

Movin' on

 

Yup. That game was gifted to us. Also Donaldson had a bloop single just before the Bautista homer IIRC

[Omar]

Ill pass and stick with JS for now.

 

If not for Andrus dropping the easy throw, Gibby's call for a Goins sac bunt to Beltre of all f***ing people (only one of the greatest 3B ever, who promptly wheels and throws it to Andrus - 100% predictable) probably results in 2 outs and no Jose HR = we lose Gm 5 vs Texas 2015.

 

Also I had enough EEEEEEEZZZZ-EEEEEKKK-IELLLLLLL.

 

Movin' on

 

[Brownie19]

Speaking of Gibby - he now has his own podcast!

 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vZ2liYnlzaG93?sa=X&ved=0CAMQ4aUDahcKEwjwm6CxpaL6AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ&hl=en-CA

[BigCecil]

 

LOL. Yep. Just my opinion. Not as enamored with Gibby as most. I'm definitely in the minority OTB. Can't give Montoyo the Buntoyo moniker and then forget about some of Gibby's s***. IMO he looks better in nostalgic revisionist history in large part because we had some success in 15 & 16. (some of it despite him IMO) Gibby would have given Tapia 500 PAs. The 2022 EEEZZZEEEEEKKKIIIAALLLLL.(Buck pronouncing his name always a classic).

[guylaroche5]

Gibby was a moron, i remember a game (2015) vs the Yankees in a pivotal September game, 8th inning with Ellsbury, McCann and Beltran coming up (all lefties).

 

The guy has prime Brett Cecil in his pen, Gibby decides to go with Aaron Sanchez because he's his "8th inning guy" who promptly walks the first 2 batters.

 

Cecil eventually comes in and cleans up the mess but he should never have been put in that position to begin with. Point is, Gibby domb/overrated

[glory]

LOL. Yep. Just my opinion. Not as enamored with Gibby as most. I'm definitely in the minority OTB. Can't give Montoyo the Buntoyo moniker and then forget about some of Gibby's s***. IMO he looks better in nostalgic revisionist history in large part because we had some success in 15 & 16. (some of it despite him IMO) Gibby would have given Tapia 500 PAs. The 2022 EEEZZZEEEEEKKKIIIAALLLLL.(Buck pronouncing his name always a classic).

 

Gibbons in 2015 was definitely hurting the Jays in much of the same way as Buntoyo was hurting the team in 2021 (not knowing who his best relievers were, etc). I mean, the 2015 team was .500 at the deadline despite having a +1 million run differential, so even had that in common with 2021 Charlie, except the AL East in 2015 was considerably weaker than it was in 2021.

 

I thought Gibbons got better in 2016-18, but definitely agree that it's revisionism with him, more so for his personality. Gibby vs Charlie in the personality department was night and day so it probably became more glaring when we had to watch Bongos in person for 3 years.

[BigCecil]

Gibby was a moron, i remember a game (2015) vs the Yankees in a pivotal September game, 8th inning with Ellsbury, McCann and Beltran coming up (all lefties).

 

The guy has prime Brett Cecil in his pen, Gibby decides to go with Aaron Sanchez because he's his "8th inning guy" who promptly walks the first 2 batters.

 

Cecil eventually comes in and cleans up the mess but he should never have been put in that position to begin with. Point is, Gibby domb/overrated

 

That was lots of this stuff. So many games. Gibby is a quirky interesting character. I''ll give him that. But no interest in seeing him in our dugout again. As if he is some kind of savior.

[jaysblue]

Bring back Cito Gaston. He won two World Series in 1992-1993!

[Terminator]

Wow I can't believe my own eyes. Gibby hate on BJMB. I've seen it all now.

[Stangstag]

Wow I can't believe my own eyes. Gibby hate on BJMB. I've seen it all now.

 

Just wait until Montoyo gets his redemption arc

[Terminator]

I've lost A LOT of respect for the posters dissing Gibby in this thread. A LOT.