Fire John Schneider

[John_Havok]

Agree. End of the day it doesn’t matter because the offense did jack s***. Bats need to wake the f*** up these next 3 games

 

It's really weird how this team struggles vs lefties.

 

Career wise Vlad has actually never hit lefties well, so that's not surprising as much. Chapman, Kirk and Teoscar are actually hitting lefties well this year, Gurriel, Bo and Springer and really underperforming their career numbers though. Tapia blows against lefties, no shock there. Jansen is abotu in line with his career numbers but his low # of PAs so far doesnt really move the needle. Espinal is murdering lefties this year, but with such a small career sample size youd actually be expecting some regression there. Biggio, underperforming his career #'s but again, a pretty small sample size oif just 27 PAs.

[Solaxys]

It's really weird how this team struggles vs lefties.

 

We should be murder row for lefties yet we don't do well against them, its like the bafflingest of bafflingness this season.

Three hitting coaches and not one figured out what the f*** is happening there lol

[Spanky__99]

I'm alright with it in that situation. Do you burn Garcia or Romano in a losing effort? I personally wouldn't. I want them available for today where we might be up. And I think I'd also want them available for tomorrow with Castillo pitching, would be a good idea to plan for needing atleast 4 arms to follow him. So now, both of them will be able to throw an inning today and tomorrow.

 

Dude, we don't want to be seeing Banda or Romo up warming in a pen in high leverage situations, period. Ross needs to get another arm or 2 and call up Hernandez after the break.

[John_Havok]

Dude, we don't want to be seeing Banda or Romo up warming in a pen in high leverage situations, period. Ross needs to get another arm or 2 and call up Hernandez after the break.

 

Darft Kumar Rocker (assuming he's vaccinated) stick him in AAA for a couple weeks, then bring him up. There's no question about his stuff really.

[Spanky__99]

Agree. End of the day it doesn’t matter because the offense did jack s***. Bats need to wake the f*** up these next 3 games

 

That's hindsight, right there, bro.

[Spanky__99]

Darft Kumar Rocker (assuming he's vaccinated) stick him in AAA for a couple weeks, then bring him up. There's no question about his stuff really.

 

I wouldn't mind that. Whatever they think is best, I'm good concerning the draft.

[Jonn]

Darft Kumar Rocker (assuming he's vaccinated) stick him in AAA for a couple weeks, then bring him up. There's no question about his stuff really.

 

Atleast Johnson and Johnson is an option in the States. Only need 1 dose which counts for 2 even in Canada. If anyone needed to fast track a vaccine passport.

[BCZ]

Tapia over Biggio???????

 

Since Aug 1:

 

Biggio: 145 wRC+

Tapia: 2 wRC+ (not a f***ing typo)

[Stangstag]

Tapia over Biggio???????

 

Since Aug 1:

 

Biggio: 145 wRC+

Tapia: 2 wRC+ (not a f***ing typo)

 

Wtf lol. Yeha hope Biggio gets some play in the outfield if Gurriel is out

[Daniel Labude]

Tapia over Biggio???????

 

Since Aug 1:

 

Biggio: 145 wRC+

Tapia: 2 wRC+ (not a f***ing typo)

 

Thinking they may be on the thought of Biggio no longer playing the OF. So Tapia over Biggio is a little more complicated

[Stangstag]

Thinking they may be on the thought of Biggio no longer playing the OF. So Tapia over Biggio is a little more complicated

 

That would be annoying

[glory]

Schneider is basically Montoyo. Virtually no difference in terms of in game decision making. Only difference appears to be in the clubhouse, which I guess is most important anyway, but anyone who manages the Jays under this regime seems to have no real purpose other than to do what the org wants (even if it means 400-500 plate appearances for Raimel).

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Schneider is basically Montoyo. Virtually no difference in terms of in game decision making. Only difference appears to be in the clubhouse, which I guess is most important anyway, but anyone who manages the Jays under this regime seems to have no real purpose other than to do what the org wants (even if it means 400-500 plate appearances for Raimel).

 

 

Leads me to believe that any manager we get will be the same because they are just carrying out management's orders.

[max silver]

Schneider is basically Montoyo. Virtually no difference in terms of in game decision making. Only difference appears to be in the clubhouse, which I guess is most important anyway, but anyone who manages the Jays under this regime seems to have no real purpose other than to do what the org wants (even if it means 400-500 plate appearances for Raimel).

 

This isn't true at all. Under Schneider the team has been far more aggressive on the bases, particularly in terms of attempting to steal second. It remains to be seen if this is a net positive or not as they have run into plenty of outs. The team is sacrificing far less than under Montoyo. The bullpen has been deployed differently, as Romano has been utilized for multiple inning saves on several occasions under Schneider. Starters are being allowed to pitch further into games, although this may have been allowed in Charlie were still manager as well. We have seen different bullpen deployment, as the team's leverage relievers have been employed in more games when the team is behind in order to keep the game close.

[Laika]

also lineup shuffling

[Laika]

also testosterone

[glory]

Yes, I’ll agree aggressive on the bases (whether that’s good or not is another question) and more open to switch the lineup around are two differences. I like the latter. But in totality I just don’t see a big difference, which is partly on the players and partly on the org itself, so not putting all the blame on the managers.

[max silver]

Yes, I’ll agree aggressive on the bases (whether that’s good or not is another question) and more open to switch the lineup around are two differences. I like the latter. But in totality I just don’t see a big difference, which is partly on the players and partly on the org itself, so not putting all the blame on the managers.

 

It's definitely up to the players to perform on the field, but you can't deny the team has performed far better under Schneider than under Montoyo. Under Montoyo the team was 46-42 with a .523 winning percentage. Under Schneider the team is 30-18 with a .625 winning percentage. This is good for over 100 wins over a full season, and is far more indicative of the level of talent on this team. I see far more accountability under Schneider, both on and off the field of play than we ever saw with Charlie.

[Laika]

Tactically the front office basically tells the manager what to do

They tell them how to optimize player usage

 

Most managers ignore what the front office tells them to do some % of the time. With the Rays that will be like, 2% of the time. With Toronto that might be like 10% of the time. With s***** organizations the analytics department has no power and there is old school managerial discretion.

 

I actually think one reason Montoyo got canned was not following the front office optimization plans enough.

[Orgfiller]

It's definitely up to the players to perform on the field, but you can't deny the team has performed far better under Schneider than under Montoyo. Under Montoyo the team was 46-42 with a .523 winning percentage. Under Schneider the team is 30-18 with a .625 winning percentage. This is good for over 100 wins over a full season, and is far more indicative of the level of talent on this team. I see far more accountability under Schneider, both on and off the field of play than we ever saw with Charlie.

 

This is fine and a neat narrative but most of the team's turnaround can be explained by regression to the mean. We literally have no idea what level of accountability was going on behind the scenes under Montoyo and the comparison to that of Schneider. This was always projected to be a good team so it's not surprising to see them eventually play up to what they were expected to do. I really don't think Montoyo, as much as I didn't love him as a tactical manager, was the reason the team was underperforming so much. He also had to deal with key injuries to the rotation, Kikuchi actually being a starter, and worse bullpen help/rotation depth prior to the deadline, which Schneider obviously benefited from. It's easy to say his firing was the catalyst and Schneider really lit a fire under them, but most likely this is all just random noise which the new manager gets to soak in the narrative from.

[BigCecil]

Too early for me to have much of a view on Schneider. The false narratives began almost immediately. They seem to zig and zag depending on if we win or lose. Most of his decisions so far seem pretty milquetoast. The "aggressiveness" on the bases the jury is still out on for me. Some guys are running that shouldn't be. Dumb. And Espy bunting is dumb for so many reasons, not the least of which is he is terrible at it. I like his on the field and media persona we see, whatever that is worth. I like that he isn't afraid to change the line up order. Also a plus he is bongo-free.

 

Madden went from being seen as cutting edge with the Rays, and winning a WS with Cubs to being seen as a past his prime dinosaur. Listened to a decent interview with him yesterday about how FO's are f***ing up baseball in his view. Too much focus on analytics (even though we was an early proponent and remains one). Said the numbers guys and FO's are just having too much impact on field decisions.

 

He said he wants to hear the information but then make baseball decisions - keep the numbers guys out of his office kind of thing. Was interesting. He also said he isn't a bitter grumpy old man lol

[Brownie19]

This is fine and a neat narrative but most of the team's turnaround can be explained by regression to the mean. We literally have no idea what level of accountability was going on behind the scenes under Montoyo and the comparison to that of Schneider. This was always projected to be a good team so it's not surprising to see them eventually play up to what they were expected to do. I really don't think Montoyo, as much as I didn't love him as a tactical manager, was the reason the team was underperforming so much. He also had to deal with key injuries to the rotation, Kikuchi actually being a starter, and worse bullpen help/rotation depth prior to the deadline, which Schneider obviously benefited from. It's easy to say his firing was the catalyst and Schneider really lit a fire under them, but most likely this is all just random noise which the new manager gets to soak in the narrative from.

 

Yeah I agree with this. Fans are fooling themselves if they 'know' there's now more accountability on the team. I also believe there's a good chance that what Laika said is true. Charlie was breaking script too often. I think there's a better chance that is true than the narrative that Charlie wasn't holding player accountable.

[max silver]

This is fine and a neat narrative but most of the team's turnaround can be explained by regression to the mean. We literally have no idea what level of accountability was going on behind the scenes under Montoyo and the comparison to that of Schneider. This was always projected to be a good team so it's not surprising to see them eventually play up to what they were expected to do. I really don't think Montoyo, as much as I didn't love him as a tactical manager, was the reason the team was underperforming so much. He also had to deal with key injuries to the rotation, Kikuchi actually being a starter, and worse bullpen help/rotation depth prior to the deadline, which Schneider obviously benefited from. It's easy to say his firing was the catalyst and Schneider really lit a fire under them, but most likely this is all just random noise which the new manager gets to soak in the narrative from.

 

Schneider has had to deal with the same type of rotation issues that Charlie dealt with. White really hasn't been any more effective than Kikuchi, and Berrios has continued to be incredibly inconsistent from start to start as well. I won't argue that the bullpen is far more reliable now, as we are no longer subject to a parade of sub replacement relievers being utilized in close games because nobody more effective is available.

 

We aren't privy to what was going on behind the scenes. From the comments we have heard from Atkins and the players themselves there was something going on which necessitated the managerial change. Whether Charlie simply couldn't handle the pressure of a close pennant race, couldn't help rally his team around the Budzinski tragedy, or had some other sort of issues in the clubhouse we didn't hear about it was rather clear that he had lost the team. I don't think it's a coincidence that they have performed better after the managerial change. This could certainly have been a result of the players simply stepping up and performing more up to their abilities, but the fact remains that there is often a very fine line between winning and losing in baseball. We have seen more than enough differences tactically in game which has directly contributed to the team winning more games. During a game the manager is responsible for placing his team in the best possible position to win games, and I think that Schneider has been far more effective with his in game decision making than what we saw under Montoyo.

[Brownie19]

We need to consider the possibility that the players simply got their head out of their ass after they saw that their efforts cost someone their job. I don't know how long that guilt effect lasts, but I believe that's one of the strongest reasons why teams often play better immediately following a managerial change.

[John_Havok]

We need to consider the possibility that the players simply got their head out of their ass after they saw that their efforts cost someone their job. I don't know how long that guilt effect lasts, but I believe that's one of the strongest reasons why teams often play better immediately following a managerial change.

 

possibly, but I dont think it was really an effort thing with the players. We'll probably get more info on it after the season/playoffs are over and then either Davidi or some other shill will finally have the permission to write about why he was really fired.

 

My gut says there were disciplinary issues that weren't being handled to the FOs satisfaction and he lost the room because of it. The quotes from several players afterwards saying they were not surprised at his firing leads me to think that way.

[Laika]

It's also possible that the Montoyo firing was as much about Schneider as it was Charlie.

 

Like maybe before they weren't quite sure about Schneider but over time they came to see him as a competent manager. And then this year saw him as potentially better than Charlie for various reasons. So the team slump was a good time to make the change.

[Jimcanuck]

At the time of his hiring I looked on Montoyo as a temporary caretaker, development manager during the MLB player development part of the rebuild. Nice guy, good choice for that purpose, but not the type you want through the pressure of a pennant race and the post season.

 

Did Montoyo ever flap his gums at an umpire the way Schneider did the other night?

[Laika]

At the time of his hiring I looked on Montoyo as a temporary caretaker, development manager during the MLB player development part of the rebuild. Nice guy, good choice for that purpose, but not the type you want through the pressure of a pennant race and the post season.

 

Did Montoyo ever flap his gums at an umpire the way Schneider did the other night?

 

nah you could kick Charlie in the nuts and he wouldn't lose his grin

 

Schneider on the other hand looks like he's about to have a coronary episode even when he's calm

[Brownie19]

At the time of his hiring I looked on Montoyo as a temporary caretaker, development manager during the MLB player development part of the rebuild. Nice guy, good choice for that purpose, but not the type you want through the pressure of a pennant race and the post season.

 

Did Montoyo ever flap his gums at an umpire the way Schneider did the other night?

 

Is there any evidence that managers who blow up and yell at umpires actually get better results than those who choose not to? I guess it may give the appearance to the players that the manager has their back when they feel they are getting the shaft.

[Brownie19]

It's also possible that the Montoyo firing was as much about Schneider as it was Charlie.

 

Like maybe before they weren't quite sure about Schneider but over time they came to see him as a competent manager. And then this year saw him as potentially better than Charlie for various reasons. So the team slump was a good time to make the change.

 

This could certainly be true and would support the narrative that the players weren't surprised. I believe it was known the Jays were always worried that another would swoop in and steal Schneider - perhaps his voice was growing larger and larger in the clubhouse and the players and FO could tell it was time for him to lead the team.